Spin practicing stalls...I wonder if Eugene got his license?

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PaulS

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Student practicing solo stalls "early" in his training.

 
Posterboy for the underskilled pilot who only received 'stall avoidance training'.
 
My flight school discouraged solo stall practice. I was always wretched awful at getting into a power on stall situation. I kept dropping a wing. Consequently, I got really good at spin recovery ;)

Also, I notice a hint of poor spin recovery by this guy (I’m a PARE guy)... in the recovery I see the throttle (via tach) remains full.
 
kaiser said:
I was always wretched awful at getting into a power on stall situation. I kept dropping a wing.
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Your instructor wanted the ball centered, too, didn’t he?

kaiser said:
Also, I notice a hint of poor spin recovery by this guy (I’m a PARE guy)... in the recovery I see the throttle (via tach) remains full.
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He probably had just enough training to do it when he was prepared, not when he was unprepared.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Did you get a lot of wing drops with your power-on stalls? The ball-centered skid will do that.
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No, but my CFI made me practice a few power-on stalls with leveling the wings with ailerons so I could see the difference.
 
Only comment from him was “that was a bad landing”. Wtf. Why put this stuff out there. That’s the attitude of trying to get followers imo.
 
I need an explanation of "1 wing stalled more than the other" Like there is a measurement of stallishness?
 
Ravioli said:
I need an explanation of "1 wing stalled more than the other" Like there is a measurement of stallishness?
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A wing can achieve a greater angle of attack than initial critical. It’s not like there’s a physical brick wall limit at critical. Both wings can be stalled with one wing having a greater AOA than the other. This is what happens during a spin.
 
steingar said:
Never came close to spinning my Cessna 150. Heck, even if it did, you just take your hands off everything and the airplane will come out of it all by itself.
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Some of them won't, after two or three turns. Cessna issued a POH supplement on it. They can go flat and require brisk forward elevator immediately after full opposite rudder. The modified POH said this:

For the purpose of training in spins and spin recoveries, a I to 2-turn spin is adequate and should be used. Up to 2 turns, the spin will progress to a fairly rapid rate of rotation and a steep attitude. Application of recovery controls will produce prompt recoveries of from 1/4 to1/2 of a turn. If the spin is continued beyond the 2 to 3-turn range, some change in character of the spin maybe noted. Rotation rates may vary and some additional sideslip may be felt. Normal recoveries from such extended spins may take up to a full turn or more. Regardless of how many turns the spin is held or how it is entered, the following recoverytechnique should be used:

1.PLACE AILERONS IN NEUTRAL POSITION. 2.RETARD THROTTLE TO IDLE POSITION. 3.APPLY AND HOLD FULL RUDDER OPPOSITE TO THE DIRECTION OF ROTATION. 4.JUST AFTER THE RUDDER REACHES THE STOP, MOVE THE CONTROL WHEEL BRISKLY FORWARD FAR ENOUGH TO BREAK THE STALL. Full down elevator may be required at aft center of gravity loadings to assure optimum recoveries. 5.HOLD THESE CONTROL INPUTS UNTIL ROTATION STOPS. Premature relaxation of the control inputs may extend the recovery. 6.AS ROTATION STOPS, NEUTRALIZE RUDDER, AND MAKE A SMOOTH RECOVERY FROM THE RESULTING DIVE.
 
kaiser said:
Also, I notice a hint of poor spin recovery by this guy (I’m a PARE guy)... in the recovery I see the throttle (via tach) remains full.
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More than that. Watch the copilot's control wheel when he gets the wing drops. A bunch of remedial training needed. A 150 will often forgive that. The Champ he goes and buys after he gets his license won't.
 
Anyone counting speed up by 5s in a 150 has their eyes down way too much! Would someone get this guy some TW training! ?
 
Ravioli said:
I need an explanation of "1 wing stalled more than the other" Like there is a measurement of stallishness?
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Have you ever seen a video of a wing staling with yarn tufts attached?

The entire wing doesn’t just stall all at once. It’s a progressive thing as the AOA increases.
 
luvflyin said:
Ball centered skid???
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That puzzled me as well. A skid is when the bank is insufficient for the rate of turn. So far as know, that condition will always move the ball to the outside of the turn.

Early in my training I got a pretty good scare in a 150. I was doing a departure stall, and must not have had enough right rudder. I think I also accidentally had flaps down. In any case, I got a hard roll to the left with the nose dropping - what I now consider an “imminent spin”. I got the nose down and must have used enough rudder and stopped it at around 1/4 turn.

It led me to later make sure all my students got to see that scenario, intentionally doing some power on stalls without any right rudder, and then have them recover from the “break” that followed. Also “cross control” stalls so they could also see the dynamics of a skidding stall. It may have been mentioned already, but the typical “not enough right rudder” stall in a departure stall is a stall from a slip - too much bank for the rate of turn, which is usually zero just prior to the break.
 
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luvflyin said:
Ball centered skid???
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I guess technically it’s a slip, but the effect is the same.

The downward blade produces more thrust, so much like a multi engine airplane on one engine, zero side slip isn’t with the ball centered. If a yaw string worked on the windshield of a single, it’d be easy to demonstrate.
 
GRG55 said:
Sadly, a lost opportunity.
A properly rigged 150 is one of the most fun training planes to spin.
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I had 150s resist my trying to spin them in certain scenarios such as a skidding descending turn. The Champ never resisted. Flicked over right away.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I guess technically it’s a slip, but the effect is the same.

The downward blade produces more thrust, so much like a multi engine airplane on one engine, zero side slip isn’t with the ball centered. If a yaw string worked on the windshield of a single, it’d be easy to demonstrate.
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I dunno about that. The left turning tendency from P factor will make the plane want to turn to the left. But you could be perfectly coordinated while that was happening. The wings and the ball have no sense that you are flying a slightly curved path over the ground. I think
 
luvflyin said:
I dunno about that. The left turning tendency from P factor will make the plane want to turn to the left. But you could be perfectly coordinated while that was happening. The wings and the ball have no sense that you are flying a slightly curved path over the ground. I think
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The plane wants to turn left...you compensate with right rudder, so you have both the front and back of the airplane being pushed equally to the left. No turn, but side slip.

read up on multiengine training.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The plane wants to turn left...you compensate with right rudder, so you have both the front and back of the airplane being pushed equally to the left. No turn, but side slip.

read up on multiengine training.
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Yeah. Got that. If you want to stay straight ahead over the ground. But, assuming the inclinometer is accurate, if the ball is centered, you are neither slipping or skidding. Your just flying a curved path over the ground. I was thinking about multi engine. It's been a long time since I've done that. There's the bank the airplane into the good engine thing. I think airplanes have to certified with Vmc established with no more than 5 degrees bank. And yeah, if you do that you're likely be in a skid or slip. But if you are, the ball ain't gonna be centered. I think.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. Got that. If you want to stay straight ahead over the ground. But, assuming the inclinometer is accurate, if the ball is centered, you are neither slipping or skidding. Your just flying a curved path over the ground. I was thinking about multi engine. It's been a long time since I've done that. There's the bank the airplane into the good engine thing. I think airplanes have to certified with Vmc established with no more than 5 degrees bank. And yeah, if you do that you're likely be in a skid or slip. But if you are, the ball ain't gonna be centered. I think.
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The ball is not a yaw instrument...it only shows slip or skid under a very specific set of circumstances, which are not met with the asymmetric thrust of single prop at high power and high aircraft AOA, or a twin on one engine. The a couple degrees bank in a twin, with the ball out of center, is zero side slip.

it has nothing to do with “over the ground”...it’s all relative wind, which the ball can’t sense.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
The ball is not a yaw instrument...it only shows slip or skid under a very specific set of circumstances, which are not met with the asymmetric thrust of single prop at high aircraft AOA or a twin on one engine. The 5 degrees bank in a twin, with the ball out of center, is zero side slip.

it has nothing to do with “over the ground”...it’s all relative wind, which the ball can’t sense.
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I gotta get out my toy airplanes and experiment. Do you know of any good videos or websites explaining all this?
 
luvflyin said:
I gotta get out my toy airplanes and experiment. Do you know of any good videos or websites explaining all this?
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I haven’t watched it, but this video seems to be titled appropriate to the discussion...
 
Huckster79 said:
Anyone counting speed up by 5s in a 150 has their eyes down way too much! Would someone get this guy some TW training! ?
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I noticed that as well. He does the same thing practicing stalls. Some people see flying and performing maneuvers as a list of steps that must be followed, rather than something that is performed by feel and feedback from all senses. Notice it is a cloudless sky and during the stall, he only looks straight ahead. What is there to see there? The result speaks for itself.
 
FastEddieB said:
That puzzled me as well. A skid is when the bank is insufficient for the rate of turn. So far as know, that condition will always move the ball to the outside of the turn.

Early in my training I got a pretty good scare in a 150. I was doing a departure stall, and must not have had enough right rudder. I think I also accidentally had flaps down. In any case, I got a hard roll to the left with the nose dropping - what I now consider an “imminent spin”. I got the nose down and must have used enough rudder and stopped it at around 1/4 turn.

It led me to later make sure all my students got to see that scenario, intentionally doing some power on stalls without any right rudder, and then have them recover from the “break” that followed. Also “cross control” stalls so they could also see the dynamics of a skidding stall. It may have been mentioned already, but the typical “not enough right rudder” stall in a departure stall is a stall from a slip - too much bank for the rate of turn, which is usually zero just prior to the break.
Click to expand...
Were you my CFI? I remember mine yelling get your feet on the floor during a power on stall and me not thinking about what was about to happen. That 150 broke and flipped right over on its back. Scared the ever living hell out of me.
 
I wonder if he got his license. This was posted 2 years ago, and it was from 2 years before that. I was the last video he posted. He did comment a few days ago though to people ragging on him, so he didn't kill himself.

I was taught neutral ailerons, keep the wings level with the rudder in slow flight to stall. In the Cirrus they say coordinated use of the controls to keep wings level. I will admit to having a pretty good wing drop on one of my power on stalls in a 22. Law of primacy had me mashing the rudder to straighten it out while recovering from the stall, aileron was an afterthought. I was on a proficiency check, I asked my instructor "why did that happen?" I had the ball centered, or so I thought, but I was paying pretty close attention. He said it didn't matter, what mattered was I recovered correctly.

I need to do some spin training.
 
Many many moons ago as a low time student on maybe my 3rd or 4th lesson an instructor let me get myself into a spin on my first ever power on stall with no warning. Not knowing better, I was certain it meant near and certain death, and nearly hung up the flight bag that soon.
 
In my last FR, I set up for a power on stall with full power, had the more right rudder in to compensate, when the stall happened I didn’t let the more right rudder go and the right wing dropped, significantly, the only thing I did was let everything go and slam on the high wing with the rudder. As long as you can step on the high wing, you recover and the fact that archers are very hard to spin in the first place. Next the CFI showed me how the plane doesn’t want to stay stalled.
Power off, yoke to his chest, he just sat there with the ball in the center, the plane went on to stall, recover, stall, recover rinse repeat all in its own sinking 1500 fpm.

Until I have a upset recovery training, the only thing I remember is to keep the ball in the middle and always step on high wing.
 
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