Speed Mods...are they really worth it?

[bikert]

I prefer to limit myself to stickers and a loud exhaust. Everyone thinks I'm faster than I am, and the few minutes longer I take on a typical XC is my little secret...

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Al mooney had it right. A 140 Cherokee with four passengers is looking for an accident to go to. Grossly underpowered.

 

[steingar]

Al mooney had it right. A 140 Cherokee with four passengers is looking for an accident to go to. Grossly underpowered.

Like most aircraft, it is a tradeoff. I did fill the seats in mine a couple times, admittedly the passengers were mostly on the diminutive side. But I keep the gas light (still plenty to make it to my destination and back with the necessary reserves) and it worked out just fine. Admittedly, with larger sized passengers the trip would be a no-go.

While I agree about Al Mooney, I can't fill the seats in my M20C and take a full load of gas either. Still tradeoffs.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Like most aircraft, it is a tradeoff. I did fill the seats in mine a couple times, admittedly the passengers were mostly on the diminutive side. But I keep the gas light (still plenty to make it to my destination and back with the necessary reserves) and it worked out just fine. Admittedly, with larger sized passengers the trip would be a no-go.

While I agree about Al Mooney, I can't fill the seats in my M20C and take a full load of gas either. Still tradeoffs.

Well then try two adults in a Cherokee 140 on a hot day full tanks. It's still a disaster. Anything with the gear hanging down is not going to go fast especially if it's underpowered with a Hershey bar wing.

 

[James331]

Another aspect is how you load your plane, having a reward CG makes a difference in speed

 

[Graueradler]

That's a fast Cherokee.

That was at wide open throttle at about 3000 MSL

 

[steingar]

Well then try two adults in a Cherokee 140 on a hot day full tanks. It's still a disaster. Anything with the gear hanging down is not going to go fast especially if it's underpowered with a Hershey bar wing.

Been there done that numerous times. I have to admit, climb performance on a hot day was poor and I wouldn't try and out climb any terrain. But the ship would fly just fine.

 

[denverpilot]

The factory may have installed the antennas, but the performance is based on bare bones design, done by computer, verified with a prototype, not the factory end product. The numbers were generated before the first plane was ever built.
No ADF, SS, GPS, VOR, ELT, VHF, Satellite TV and whatever else.
Wind triangle will still show lower TAS than actual if you have winds aloft, try playing with your high tech E6B
Saner to say the book numbers are wrong...maybe just easier than trying to understand why.

Was just going off of your clearly busted list is all, on the antenna thing.

Plenty of data to indicate that way more than average numbers of the fleet never made book numbers, even when new. All you have to do is read old magazine articles and reviews. Nobody ever saw them in the real world.

Maybe if the moon was full, and the assembly guy got one exactly right on a Tuesday, and a "perfect" airplane came off the line, it'd barely make book numbers, but the vast majority never did. Slap them together and get them out the door. They were busy back then.

Multiple companies so desperate to sell airplanes that they'd take photos of people who weren't normal sized, sitting in the cockpit mockups, to put in marketing slicks, to make them look roomy, too.

Nobody cared back then that they didn't make book numbers and nobody cares now, but they didn't, don't and usually won't.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Anything with the gear hanging down is not going to go fast especially if it's underpowered with a Hershey bar wing.

While I agree with the underpowered... plenty of fixed gear planes are much faster than anything comparable with RG... Cirrus and the Cessna 400 come to mind.

 

[James331]

While I agree with the underpowered... plenty of fixed gear planes are much faster than anything comparable with RG... Cirrus and the Cessna 400 come to mind.

Or a Cassutt, 200mph on 100hp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassutt_Special

 

[steingar]

While I agree with the underpowered... plenty of fixed gear planes are much faster than anything comparable with RG... Cirrus and the Cessna 400 come to mind.

Actually, those two are the only ones that come to mind. But yes, with modern materials and aerodynamic design one can heave gear hanging down with precious little drag.

 

[Graueradler]

Maybe not in the same class as the above but the RV-8 is a fixed gear 4 banger that is no slouch for speed.

 

[Ted]

Maybe not in the same class as the above but the RV-8 is a fixed gear 4 banger that is no slouch for speed.

Once you go experimental you're in a different realm, though. The Lancair IV-P as a fixed gear plane would still be extraordinarily fast, but it is also uncertifiable.

 

[dell30rb]

I personally did not put any speed mods on the 310, but it ended up 20 knots faster when I sold it than when it was donated to Cloud Nine. This was basically done by paying very close attention to detail in terms of baffles (big one)

Attention to detail is the easiest and cheapest speed mod, in my opinion.

Yep.. most airplanes could benefit from a lot of free speed mods. Just make sure everything closes up tight and seals. Baffling, cowl flaps loose and not closing all the way, gear doors not adjusted or tweaked and leaving a gap when closed, cargo doors, cockpit door not sealing well.. that stuff adds up. When/If I ever buy a plane, I will pay a lot of attention to those things.

 

[Ted]

Yep.. most airplanes could benefit from a lot of free speed mods. Just make sure everything closes up tight and seals. Baffling, cowl flaps loose and not closing all the way, gear doors not adjusted or tweaked and leaving a gap when closed, cargo doors, cockpit door not sealing well.. that stuff adds up. When/If I ever buy a plane, I will pay a lot of attention to those things.

It ends up taking a while to get sorted out, but it's worth it.

 

[Andrew82MN]

New to this forum.
Any Recommendations for extended baggage on a 1965 H model 182?
SelKirk seems to be a popular one, but I’m not a big fan of the step up. I’d like it to be flat all the way back.
Thank you in advance,
Andrew

 

[Mtns2Skies]

New to this forum.
Any Recommendations for extended baggage on a 1965 H model 182?
SelKirk seems to be a popular one, but I’m not a big fan of the step up. I’d like it to be flat all the way back.
Thank you in advance,
Andrew

Where is your battery mounted? To get the flat floor you will need to move your battery to the firewall if it's not already there.

 

[rbridges]

I also have a bit of time in a Mooney M20J with a Lopresti cowl and some other mods. This one also does close to book numbers, maybe 5 knots faster.

Changing to the J model, mooney really made the plane a lot more aerodynamic. I really don't think there is a huge advantage of putting a Lopresti on a J, but I haven't seen much more than a few posts on the internet.

 

[Unit74]

I have K2Us speed mods except for the Stabilator, which is a complete mess if you ask me. I can say this....... I'f I could have the parts money and the labor back, I would. On my PA32, it was not worth the money or effort..

 

[hindsight2020]

The numbers people quote between the fixed togas and NA Lances does give credence to the notion aerodynamic fairings do work, but they have to be done as a complete work up from the factory, and fully depreciated as a result of said stock condition from the factory. Aftermarket piece meal add-ons do not represent value added by contrast.

 

[Andrew82MN]

It is in the tail, Should have specified. Worth mouting the battery on the firewall to get a flat floor, or accept the step and move on. Haha
Thanks.

It is in the tail, Should have specified. Worth mouting the battery on the firewall to get a flat floor, or accept the step and move on. Haha
Thanks