Speed in pattern

AKBill

AKBill

En-Route
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
3,735
Location
Juneau, AK
Display Name
Display name:
AKBill
So I fly out of a class D airport (PAJN), Juneau, AK.

Always seems like there are a lot of faster planes coming in to airport behind me. My Beech Sport is not real fast and I always feel like I am holding up traffic in the pattern to land.

Today there were 3 aircraft behind me and I was told after landing expedite departure from runway by the tower.

Wondering if I should keep my speed us to 100mph until final then start to slow things down.

Over the numbers at 70mph.

Comments.....
 
My opinion. Every airplane is different. Just do what you should do in your airplane and don't worry about the other guys.
 
AKBill said:
So I fly out of a class D airport (PAJN), Juneau, AK.

Always seems like there are a lot of faster planes coming in to airport behind me. My Beech Sport is not real fast and I always feel like I am holding up traffic in the pattern to land.

Today there were 3 aircraft behind me and I was told after landing expedite departure from runway by the tower.

Wondering if I should keep my speed us to 100mph until final then start to slow things down.

Over the numbers at 70mph.

Comments.....
Click to expand...
Fly the speed you feel comfortable/safe doing. ATC will have to accommodate by increasing separation. Shouldn't make you feel bad about it...

Now if you're comfortable going faster, it would wouldn't hurt. If the pattern is empty I'll usually fly in the 80-100 KIAS range, but if needed for flow control I'll go up to 175 KIAS to the numbers. Just stay safe.
 
It depends on what's flying behind you. In certain cases I'm sure a faster speed will be appreciate, then again at some point it becomes impractical for you.

Perhaps you can fly a tighter pattern. Or offer to give way to faster traffic (if it's just one guy).
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Now if you're comfortable going faster, it would wouldn't hurt. If the pattern is empty I'll usually fly in the 80-100 KIAS range, but if needed for flow control I'll go up to 175 KIAS to the numbers. Just stay safe.
Click to expand...

Wow that's a big difference.
 
Don't do what you're not comfortable with, but yeah, you could stay 100 on down wind then start slowing down on base and final. Practice it a bit.
 
Unless you fly the same speeds as everybody else, ATC is going to have to put effort into spacing. Some controllers are better than others, but they're all going to have to work at it.
 
You have to decide your comfort level.go up on a slow day and practice at different speeds.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Fly the speed you feel comfortable/safe doing. ATC will have to accommodate by increasing separation. Shouldn't make you feel bad about it...

Now if you're comfortable going faster, it would wouldn't hurt. If the pattern is empty I'll usually fly in the 80-100 KIAS range, but if needed for flow control I'll go up to 175 KIAS to the numbers. Just stay safe.
Click to expand...
yup....just depends on who is there. :yes:
 
Trained at a Class C and got used to right 360s on downwind - if things were busy sometimes offered it before Tower did.
 
Tight pattern is more important that speed.

If you are 70 over the numbers 90 downwind, 80 base and 70 final is perfectly acceptable.

If you do that and fly a wide pattern...then you are gonna jack up those behind you.
 
Your comfort and safety are paramount, obviously.

As you get more comfy, keeping it fast and tight is not only appreciated but also more fun.
 
Seems like if you are going fast you take a bigger pattern and slow a smaller one. When I am flying into tampa area they always seem to not let me come down till last minute so I'm coming down around 2500ft or maybe faster. So I'm cooking pretty good when I am close to airport. Close to 200. Can't put landing gear down till 180. I have to take a longer downwind to get slowed down.usually makes me for longer final. I only have 4000 ft to work with so can't be cooking over numbers. The slower planes are usually in tight so not much problem ever.
 
You are the final authority. Do not worry about the planes behind you...they are not your responsibility.

Bob Gardner
 
That said, ATC at larger airports often assign speeds to fly. Smaller airplanes do have less flexibility on this, but one should attempt to fly faster if asked. Of course I'm not suggesting doing something you are not comfortable with, but eventually you should be comfortable with it.
 
At a towered airport I just wouldn't worry about it. It's the job of the controllers to sequence aircraft for spacing. Flying out of SLC Bravo during my training, it wasn't unusual to hear the expedite off the runway request. The controllers are usually quite creative at jamming the little planes into the pattern.

During non-towered ops it is more your call. Once I was poking along on a long straight-in final and a P180 was coming up on my six. I pulled into a 360 to let him by. Later on the ground he thanked me. Said most pilots just keep chugging along. For me, it's just being courteous.
 
AKBill said:
Wondering if I should keep my speed us to 100mph until final then start to slow things down.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea to get used to as it's a pretty standard IFR approach speed for four seaters.

90 knots is what I fly approaches at in the Cherokee.
 
The speedsters behind you can either slow up or they can extend their downwind or both. They could probably use the slow flight practice anyway. Do not get yourself out of whack and too fast just to accommodate others. You will be more of a hindrance if you ball it up on the runway and close it down.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The speedsters behind you can either slow up or they can extend their downwind or both. They could probably use the slow flight practice anyway. Do not get yourself out of whack and too fast just to accommodate others. You will be more of a hindrance if you ball it up on the runway and close it down.
Click to expand...
At FRG if there is a fast guy behind a slow plane they will usually make the slow guy break off final. The slow guy never really gets a break
 
Henning said:
Don't do what you're not comfortable with, but yeah, you could stay 100 on down wind then start slowing down on base and final. Practice it a bit.
Click to expand...


Yeah. Don't be pressured into getting outside your comfort zone, but it's good to be a good neighbor in the pattern. Get a good CFI and work with it. Money well spent, what you learn about energy management will be very valuable. If ya got a BFR coming up work this into it. Even if you don't, work a BFR into it and reset the clock to a new 2 years.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Fly the speed you feel comfortable/safe doing. ATC will have to accommodate by increasing separation. Shouldn't make you feel bad about it...

Now if you're comfortable going faster, it would wouldn't hurt. If the pattern is empty I'll usually fly in the 80-100 KIAS range, but if needed for flow control I'll go up to 175 KIAS to the numbers. Just stay safe.
Click to expand...

I agree with the advice. Recently at a class D airport flying a 172RG I reported for a right base for landing and was cleared to land. I'm typically 90/80/70 KIAS in the downwind, base, final pattern, but since this was a straight in to base, I probably slowed to 80 about 1 mile from the runway. It shouldn't have been a problem, but Tower probably bunched up a straight in to final and at least one other plane in the pattern behind me.

I landed, made the second taxiway, and after clearing the hold short line, I stopped to clean up the aircraft, as I always do. Flaps up, carb heat off, etc. per the after landing checklist. Before I finished my tasks, Tower says "Cutlass 87D, don't stop there!" I was stunned. I knew there was traffic behind me, so I wasn't going to spend more than maybe 10 seconds to run through the flow. Plus, there were three other taxiways beyond where I pulled off.

So I continued to taxi, cleaning up on the roll. I should have told him that I'm pilot in command of the aircraft, and that I would move when it is safe to do so. I get very brave after the fact. :redface: I regularly try to help tower out, but in this case I think he screwed up. Feces happens some time.
 
Thanks for your comments. The wife always laughs when we beat Alaska Airlines in. Juneau is really busy April till September then it dies, no tourist looking for wales!!!!!

My Beech Sport 150 is not fast, I have learned how to slow it down fairly quickly.

Normally I slow down to 80mph, down wind mid field. I use mph because it's a slow plane and that is the outer marking on air speed indicator.

Lately I have tried to keep the speed up to accommodate planes behind me. Tighter patterns is something I will start to do.

Almost 1000hrs private pilot with 1000 landings. Work and other commitments (fuel $7.00 a gallon) have kept me at 100hrs a year.

Thanks for your comments
 
Your slow speed on approach won't mess up the traffic flow nearly as much as the go-around because you were too fast to land. Forget about the guys behind you, they aren't your problem.
 
MachFly said:
Wow that's a big difference.
Click to expand...
The Caravan, particularly with the -114A and McCauley prop, just about stops when at idle. Over the threshold at 175 (Vne) and you can pretty easily vacate the runway in about 3.000ft. If you have a high-speed exit you can shorten that a bit...
 
Last edited:
AKBill said:
Thanks for your comments. The wife always laughs when we beat Alaska Airlines in. Juneau is really busy April till September then it dies, no tourist looking for wales!!!!!

My Beech Sport 150 is not fast, I have learned how to slow it down fairly quickly.

Normally I slow down to 80mph, down wind mid field. I use mph because it's a slow plane and that is the outer marking on air speed indicator.

Lately I have tried to keep the speed up to accommodate planes behind me. Tighter patterns is something I will start to do.

Almost 1000hrs private pilot with 1000 landings. Work and other commitments (fuel $7.00 a gallon) have kept me at 100hrs a year.

Thanks for your comments
Click to expand...

As I remember the Beech Sport/Sundowner/Sierra, they are fussy about speed over the fence to get a proper landing and not float down the runway or PIO. Fly your speed, let tower worry about spacing behind you.
 
bobmrg said:
You are the final authority. Do not worry about the planes behind you...they are not your responsibility.

I know, just trying to keep the tower happy as well as those folks behind me.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

[QUOTE=Gsxrpilot;1864494]Your slow speed on approach won't mess up the traffic flow nearly as much as the go-around because you were too fast to land. Forget about the guys behind you, they aren't your problem.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

So many good comments. I would like to reply to everyone but I guess everyone agrees fly the plane and land safely.

Funny thing is the Sport 150 is so slow there is only 40mpn between rotate speed and cruse spend.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
The Caravan, particularly with the -114A and McCauley prop, just about stops when at idle. Over the threshold at 175 (Vne) and you can pretty easily vacate the runway in about 3.000ft. If you have a high-speed exit you can shorten that a bit...
Click to expand...

I was actually a lot more surprised by 175kts.
I flew a Caravan for a little while with a -135, but it had floats so it cruised only around 140kts. I expect your Caravan to be faster, just didn't realize that it could be THAT much faster.
 
However, this thread should make people think, do I really know the envelope of my aircraft. A lot of prople fly patterns exactly as they were shown in training. Every time. Take the time to expand your knowledge of the aircraft. Learn how long it takes to slow down and configure. In my aircraft I know how long I can hold 150 on final and still slow to 60 over the fence.

Every approach is different, expand your comfort zone and learn how to use all the tools you have available.

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top