Speaking of illegal charter flights

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MauleSkinner said:
But they could give a non board member/VP/employee, etc, a free ride. Who’s on board isn’t the only factor, either.
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But isn't giving free rides to the governor not allowed, which means it must have been paid for.

Like the judges always say, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
 
sourdough44 said:
Seems like the plane owner had/has reasons ($$$) to keep a good relationship with the State. Funny how that works. $27 k would of bought a lot of 1st class tickets.
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Coulda probably bought nearly the whole regular airliner so there'd be "security"
 
EdFred said:
True, but you should know who is who when you fly part 91. And you would know the governor isn't a board member/president/vice president/employee/etc....
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The governor could have been a guest. You don't need to be an employee of the company. The problem was that money was paid for the flight. The pilots might or might not have known about this.
 
Everskyward said:
The governor could have been a guest. You don't need to be an employee of the company. The problem was that money was paid for the flight. The pilots might or might not have known about this.
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As I understand it, you can't give free stuff like that to the governor. The pilots should know that law. Since that's not allowed, the seat must have been paid for. Knowing A means knowing B. Now you know the seat must have been paid for, and if it's being paid for it's a charter operation.
 
PaulS said:
Other than that, if I own a jet, and a friend needs help, I should be able to help them out with my jet.
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Nothing to stop you if you do it legally. Getting compensation from the friend for the favor makes it not a favor.
 
EdFred said:
But isn't giving free rides to the governor not allowed, which means it must have been paid for.
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I’m not familiar with Michigan state laws...or the laws regarding that in my state, for that matter.

ignorance isn’t an excuse to that makes things legal, but it can very easily be an excuse for doing something illegal.
 
Everskyward said:
The governor could have been a guest. You don't need to be an employee of the company. The problem was that money was paid for the flight. The pilots might or might not have known about this.
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There has been a prior enforcement case that went to the NTSB where the pilot managed to wiggle out because he could prove that he was not aware of money changing hands at the back end.
In this case, if the pilot was told by the owner 'fly my guests from here to here' and nothing else, they may be in the clear.

It appears that the money changing hands only happened post-hoc to make the election law issues go away, that that really puts it far outside of anything the pilots were able to control.
 
EdFred said:
As I understand it, you can't give free stuff like that to the governor. The pilots should know that law. Since that's not allowed, the seat must have been paid for. Knowing A means knowing B. Now you know the seat must have been paid for, and if it's being paid for it's a charter operation.
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Is that some sort of Michigan law? As a pilot, I would not have known that.
 
PaulS said:
I think where she crossed the line is paying $855 for her seat, trying to navigate one law ran her afoul of another.
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Doesn't matter whether its the pax that pays, in this case the PAC paying for the flight may be a charter issue as well.

Other than that, if I own a jet, and a friend needs help, I should be able to help them out with my jet.
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As far as the FAA is concerned (and not the FEC), there is nothing that restrains you from doing so. If the pilot is commercial rated and you pay for the whole thing, you can fly friends around to your hearts content.
It can get sticky if you are flying people around in the expectation of getting future aviation business from them, if there is no expectation of future business and it is simply a gift to someone, there is no charter issue.
 
Plane owner: "Hey gov, my guys can fly you down in my plane, no charge."

(Press gets wind)

Gov: Pays money to plane owner to avoid impropriety stink.

FAA: "You paid? Illegal charter."
 
Dana said:
Plane owner: "Hey gov, my guys can fly you down in my plane, no charge."

(Press gets wind)

Gov: Pays money to plane owner to avoid impropriety stink.

FAA: "You paid? Illegal charter."
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If she'd have just done what she told the rest of us to do (not travel) it wouldn't have ever been an issue.
 
EdFred said:
If she'd have just done what she told the rest of us to do (not travel) it wouldn't have ever been an issue.
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ding ding ding ding.

we have a winna!
 
Dana said:
Plane owner: "Hey gov, my guys can fly you down in my plane, no charge."

(Press gets wind)

Gov: Pays money to plane owner to avoid impropriety stink.

FAA: "You paid? Illegal charter."
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Probably word for word.
 
Pilots wiggle out of crap all the time. Anytime contraband is found on an aircraft by US Customs the PIC is responsible but rarely charged with any crime or violation as they obviously have no idea of exactly what is in their aircraft.
If a police officer pulls a driver over in a rental car, if said driver consents to a search of the vehicle and they find illegal drugs, the driver would be held responsible almost every time.
Same issue but totally different outcomes on a regular basis.
Laws are rarely enforced equally due to due to discretion. The pilots will be fine regarding Whitmer’s matter.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Yeah...he shoulda’ handed out bottles of water for 15 minutes so the news cameras could cover it, and THEN gone to Cancun. :rolleyes:
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But Whittmer going to FL to visit someone was bad? I don't support either one of those idiots, but what really annoys me is when people are hypocritical. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
Groundpounder said:
But Whittmer going to FL to visit someone was bad? I don't support either one of those idiots, but what really annoys me is when people are hypocritical. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Since Whittmer specifically told Michigan folks not to go to Florida and then went to Florida... Think it's a bit worse.
 
Groundpounder said:
But Whittmer going to FL to visit someone was bad? I don't support either one of those idiots, but what really annoys me is when people are hypocritical. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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The guy who went to Cancun wasn't imposing rules to limit people travelling...that's the hypocrisy of the woman who went to Florida.
 
Can anyone confirm or deny that the Whitmer flight was aircraft operators “first charter in the history of the company”? The “receipt” was apparently generated only recently after the media picked up this story.

This entire travel story is dwarfed by the THOUSANDS of people killed by the Governor forcing C-19 positive patients into state-funded nursing homes. Last week we just learned that the nursing home death numbers were greatly under-reported. More to come...
 
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