Southwest 'purchased' frequency used by DZ for A2A and A2G

MonkeyClaw

MonkeyClaw

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Timothy Miller
The DZ in Sebastian has been using the same frequency for air-to-air and air-to-ground communication for like 20 years. They were recently informed that they cannot use that frequency any more because Southwest purchased it (probably licensed it). The DZ uses it to avoid causing congestion on the CTAF for the airport, as do other DZ's around the country.

I've never heard of a frequency being licensed or purchased, at least in the range used by aircraft. Is this a common thing?
 
I was just there there this past week. They were broadcasting on 123.05. If SW purchased it (123.05), then there's 127 other airports that have to change too. Doubt it's the case.

They were running Twotters and dumping out a bunch of divers repeatedly on Saturday.
 
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MonkeyClaw said:
The DZ in Sebastian has been using the same frequency for air-to-air and air-to-ground communication for like 20 years. They were recently informed that they cannot use that frequency any more because Southwest purchased it (probably licensed it). The DZ uses it to avoid causing congestion on the CTAF for the airport, as do other DZ's around the country.

I've never heard of a frequency being licensed or purchased, at least in the range used by aircraft. Is this a common thing?
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What is the frequency?
 
MonkeyClaw said:
The DZ in Sebastian has been using the same frequency for air-to-air and air-to-ground communication for like 20 years. They were recently informed that they cannot use that frequency any more because Southwest purchased it (probably licensed it). The DZ uses it to avoid causing congestion on the CTAF for the airport, as do other DZ's around the country.

I've never heard of a frequency being licensed or purchased, at least in the range used by aircraft. Is this a common thing?
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What is A2A and A2G?
 
Airlines have company frequencies at each of the airports that they serve. I believe they are all procured through Aeronautical Radio, Inc. (AIRINC).
 
EdFred said:
I was just there there this past week. They were broadcasting on 123.05. If SW purchased it (123.05), then there's 127 other airports that have to change too. Doubt it's the case.

They were running Twotters and dumping out a bunch of divers repeatedly on Saturday.
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EdFred said:
I was just there there this past week. They were broadcasting on 123.05. If SW purchased it (123.05), then there's 127 other airports that have to change too. Doubt it's the case.

They were running Twotters and dumping out a bunch of divers repeatedly on Saturday.
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That’s the airport’s CTAF. DZs frequently use a different frequency to communicate between planes and with their ground personnel. They still make the appropriate calls on CTAF but the other frequency allows them to keep their own communications from cluttering CTAF.
 
SkyDog58 said:
That’s the airport’s CTAF. DZs frequently use a different frequency to communicate between planes and with their ground personnel. They still make the appropriate calls on CTAF but the other frequency allows them to keep their own communications from cluttering CTAF.
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Ah.
 
Larry in TN said:
Airlines have company frequencies at each of the airports that they serve. I believe they are all procured through Aeronautical Radio, Inc. (AIRINC).
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Yes the airlines have their own company frequency at each station. Airliners will call to give a 15 minute out call, arrange for any special services needed, relay their wheels up times, etc.

I don't know about today, but used to be (pre-ACARS) the airline's ground station could be remotely patched in by Dispatch or Maintenance Control so they could talk directly to the pilots when needed, as well as the station staff.
 
The frequency is 131.5, and it sounds like a Southwest pilot told the DZ pilot they weren't allowed to use that frequency because it was licensed or owned by Southwest. My BS meter is starting to go off now... I'm thinking the SW pilot was either talking out of his or her ass and the jump pilot was too new to know any different or too scared to tell them to F-off.

The DZ manager (my SIL) is trying to track down more info, so I'm still all ears as to whether there is some truth to what the SW pilot said.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
The frequency is 131.5, and it sounds like a Southwest pilot told the DZ pilot they weren't allowed to use that frequency because it was licensed or owned by Southwest. My BS meter is starting to go off now... I'm thinking the SW pilot was either talking out of his or her ass and the jump pilot was too new to know any different or too scared to tell them to F-off.

The DZ manager (my SIL) is trying to track down more info, so I'm still all ears as to whether there is some truth to what the SW pilot said.
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Any idea where they came up with that one in the first place? It doesn't seem to be one of the usual ones used, or even fall the ban used for that kind of stuff. Bands probably the wrong word, maybe range is better. It does fall in the range of ones used for Airline Companies.
 
I found an older reference where SWA was using 131.475 at PBI.

But has anyone there been monitoring the frequency to see if there are a bunch of SWA calls? If there aren’t any, I wouldn’t worry about it.
 
Larry in TN said:
It'll be a different frequency at different airports. Generally, in the 129.00 - 131.97 range.
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Correct. I knew that. PBI was just the closest SWA airport that I could find with a company ops frequency close to 131.5. Just in case Cpt Five Thumbs might have misdialed. Yeah, it’s a stretch but that is why I posted the info and then asked whether they had heard other SWA calls.
 
I've also had radios that bleed over. Was on 123.075 and was hearing 123.05 broadcasts.
 
rk911 said:
kenneth?
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luvflyin said:
??
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On October 4, 1986, while walking along Park Avenue to his apartment in Manhattan, [former CBS anchorman Dan] Rather was attacked and punched from behind by a man who demanded to know "Kenneth, what is the frequency?" while a second assailant chased and beat him. As the assailant pummeled and kicked Rather, he kept repeating the question. In describing the incident, Rather said “I got mugged. Who understands these things? I didn't and I don't now. I didn't make a lot of it at the time and I don't now. I wish I knew who did it and why, but I have no idea.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather​
 
Huh. I thought the only guy that beat up Dan Rather was Bush Sr back in 88 in an interview.
 
Pilawt said:
On October 4, 1986, while walking along Park Avenue to his apartment in Manhattan, [former CBS anchorman Dan] Rather was attacked and punched from behind by a man who demanded to know "Kenneth, what is the frequency?" while a second assailant chased and beat him. As the assailant pummeled and kicked Rather, he kept repeating the question. In describing the incident, Rather said “I got mugged. Who understands these things? I didn't and I don't now. I didn't make a lot of it at the time and I don't now. I wish I knew who did it and why, but I have no idea.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather​
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I was 5 when the song came out and knew about the incident and the song. For once I got an older pop culture reference!
 
MonkeyClaw said:
The DZ in Sebastian has been using the same frequency for air-to-air and air-to-ground communication for like 20 years. They were recently informed that they cannot use that frequency any more because Southwest purchased it (probably licensed it). The DZ uses it to avoid causing congestion on the CTAF for the airport, as do other DZ's around the country.

I've never heard of a frequency being licensed or purchased, at least in the range used by aircraft. Is this a common thing?
Click to expand...

The Chinese aren’t known for paying much attention to licensing agreements.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
The DZ in Sebastian has been using the same frequency for air-to-air and air-to-ground communication for like 20 years. They were recently informed that they cannot use that frequency any more because Southwest purchased it (probably licensed it). The DZ uses it to avoid causing congestion on the CTAF for the airport, as do other DZ's around the country.

I've never heard of a frequency being licensed or purchased, at least in the range used by aircraft. Is this a common thing?
Click to expand...

Yes it is a common thing. FBO's and airline operations can have discrete frequencies. Your DZ can do the same thing.
 
I guess the question is, was the DZ ever officially assigned that frequency or did they just use it because there was no other traffic on the frequency? If the latter, their use of it is and was illegal, like using "fingers" for air to air.
 
Dana said:
I guess the question is, was the DZ ever officially assigned that frequency or did they just use it because there was no other traffic on the frequency? If the latter, their use of it is and was illegal, like using "fingers" for air to air.
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I don't know that the DZ was ever assigned a frequency to use. They were probably banditing it. Is that illegal though? Is it illegal to use an unassigned frequency? I've never heard this, although it's not something I routinely investigate. Probably an FCC issue?

Groundpounder said:
Yes it is a common thing. FBO's and airline operations can have discrete frequencies. Your DZ can do the same thing.
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I guess the question is, do they 'own' it, and if so, do they own it nationwide?

I'm thinking either it bled over to another freq, the SW pilot was on the wrong freq, or they heard if from really far away (like both were up high). The manager has called the FCC and several places and hasn't heard anything about ownership or a frequency or anything.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
I don't know that the DZ was ever assigned a frequency to use. They were probably banditing it. Is that illegal though? Is it illegal to use an unassigned frequency? I've never heard this, although it's not something I routinely investigate. Probably an FCC issue?

I guess the question is, do they 'own' it, and if so, do they own it nationwide?

I'm thinking either it bled over to another freq, the SW pilot was on the wrong freq, or they heard if from really far away (like both were up high). The manager has called the FCC and several places and hasn't heard anything about ownership or a frequency or anything.
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They don't own it nationwide, but they probably own it within a certain radius of where it is based. It's like an ATC frequency. This is the company in charge of aviation frequencies. I'm sure the FCC has some involvement as well. https://asri.aero/
 
MonkeyClaw said:
I don't know that the DZ was ever assigned a frequency to use. They were probably banditing it. Is that illegal though? Is it illegal to use an unassigned frequency? I've never heard this, although it's not something I routinely investigate. Probably an FCC issue?
Click to expand...

I don't know the particulars, but I've heard of people getting in trouble for using "fingers" (123.45 MHz) as an A2A freq -- supposedly it is reserved for Boeing flight test or some such thing.
 
SkyDog58 said:
What does that statement have to do with anything? I do not believe that the Chinese are required to follow US law on radio frequency licensing unless operating in the US.
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When they ignore US patent laws and sell pirated products in the US why do you think the care about pirating radio frequencies?
 
Pilawt said:
I don't know the particulars, but I've heard of people getting in trouble for using "fingers" (123.45 MHz) as an A2A freq -- supposedly it is reserved for Boeing flight test or some such thing.
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Not Boeing specifically, 123.45 is reserved for flight test in general, though I don't know if you need individual permission to use it. On another forum a guy who does work in flight test related that they had to stop and rerun tests costing a pile of money because people were chatting on that frequency making it unusable for them.
 
Dana said:
Not Boeing specifically, 123.45 is reserved for flight test in general, though I don't know if you need individual permission to use it. On another forum a guy who does work in flight test related that they had to stop and rerun tests costing a pile of money because people were chatting on that frequency making it unusable for them.
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I believe Jim Weir @weirdjim mentioned that a few times here. Maybe he’ll share his experience and expertise again.
 
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