Southwest Fares

[RJM62]

Do couples and families get split up often, when seated on Southwest?

I would think it's the rule rather than the exception.

My limited experience with Southwest boarding reminds me of the opening bell at a Black Friday sale. Maybe it's a bit more civil in some areas than others, but out of EWR or LGA it's a madhouse. I haven't tried them out of ALB.

If I have a choice, I avoid SWA, and the family and friends tending to be split up is part of the reason. It seems to generate a lot of pedestrian traffic during the flight as family members, friends, and significant others who were separated during boarding visit each other. The aisle seat is particularly risky unless you don't mind kids constantly climbing over you so their parents can sort out their sundry needs and squabbles (or vice-versa).

If I must fly SWA, I make a beeline for an aft seat. There's a lot less commotion back there.

Rich

 

[Shawn]

I fly SW several times a month as my airline of choice for two reasons...no change fees (I probably change 50% of my fights last unite) and two free checked bags.

SW can be rough for those that are unfamiliar with the procedures nor like to roll the dice...but if you know the system it can be the best experience in the air. I have come to loathe the legacy carriers.

 

[SCCutler]

Unless they've changed, none of they are refundable. But all tickets can be exchanged at full value to buy a different ticket, including an upgraded ticket on the same flight.

If getting on board early is really important to you, buy the cheap ticket and you can pay $40 to upgrade your boarding.

The Wanna Get Away fares are not refundable but, if canceled timely, you retain full value for future use.

Warning on refundable tix on SW. I've been waiting 6 weeks for a refund on a flight I canceled. They say it could take 2 months.

That is odd. My refunds are typically credited within 48 hours.

---

It is always odd to me that people object to SWA's boarding - it is considerably more orderly than other carriers' (unless you're First Class or big status), such that you can remain seated in the lounge until your time to board.

As for being stuck in middle seats, I find that unless I want to pay for a better seat,I'm stuck with a middle most of the time on other carriers anyway.

Finally, traveling with families, Southwest cabin crew always assist families in getting a group of seats together.

 

[ChemGuy]

Multi year A list+ here.
If you dont fly SW often enough to get A list, or even 1/2 way to A list, it can suck. You really need to due early bird to get a high A or low B so you can get a decent seat.
If you are flying with smaller children, dont worry about early bird. Even if you C40, with small kids, after the A group boards they let families board so they can get seats together.

As said previously, all the fares are fully re-usable, no BS fees. I have re-scheduled flights while driving to the airport. For business its great and cheaper for the company. The BS fares are fully refundable.

as to boarding group....36hrs prior to listed departure time SW slots Alist preferred and A list into A15, A16, A17, etc... This is also when they slot in the people who payed for early bird. At 24hrs prior to boarding the regular people can sign in. Your group seems to be affected by things like are you in the frequent flyer program, how many points you have this year, last year, number of PAX, etc.

When we had new sales guys start they would get crappy groups, even checking in at 24hrs...until they had a few flights. After that they would get better numbers and get steady in the low B and high A util making A list. All bets are off if you forget and check in 1-4 hours late. If you fly for business and have a budget...jois FF program, fly BS fares and you will quickly get A list. With A list you can walk up to a flight ready to board and you get on right before family boarding, so A 61 or so.

 

[mscard88]

Wife just wants us to sit together () so I'll pay the boarding upgrade w/ wanna get away fare.

 

[SkyDog58]

IMO, their company policies allow their employees to be human beings, which is not the case at other airlines.

Which policies are those? Which policies at other airlines do not allow employees to be human beings?

 

[Van Johnston]

I would think it's the rule rather than the exception.

My limited experience with Southwest boarding reminds me of the opening bell at a Black Friday sale. Maybe it's a bit more civil in some areas than others, but out of EWR or LGA it's a madhouse. I haven't tried them out of ALB.

If I have a choice, I avoid SWA, and the family and friends tending to be split up is part of the reason. It seems to generate a lot of pedestrian traffic during the flight as family members, friends, and significant others who were separated during boarding visit each other. The aisle seat is particularly risky unless you don't mind kids constantly climbing over you so their parents can sort out their sundry needs and squabbles (or vice-versa).

If I must fly SWA, I make a beeline for an aft seat. There's a lot less commotion back there.

Rich

I just flew into and out of Albany for the first time last week, on Southwest. What is neat about Albany and
that I have never seen before, is SW has two gates with air bridges that go over the wing, so you can board from the rear also. You can see them on Google maps satellite view. I just wish they would have it in place for deplaning too.

In my experience, the likelihood of getting an undesirable seat is much higher on legacy seat assignment carriers than Southwest.

Something not mentioned about the SW process is that if you have a connecting flight, you get checked in for both flights at the same time. This means you get checked in for the second leg before someone who is originating in the connecting city.

 

[luvflyin]

Wife just wants us to sit together () so I'll pay the boarding upgrade w/ wanna get away fare.

You dont need to spend the money getting her a good boarding number. Just you. Get your seat and then start mumbling to yourself and picking your nose.

 

[Zeldman]

Do couples and families get split up often, when seated on Southwest?

Almost every time the wife and I travel Southwest we have never sat together. And I get really tired of people asking me to switch my aisle seat for a middle seat.

 

[RJM62]

I just flew into and out of Albany for the first time last week, on Southwest. What is neat about Albany and
that I have never seen before, is SW has two gates with air bridges that go over the wing, so you can board from the rear also. You can see them on Google maps satellite view. I just wish they would have it in place for deplaning too.

In my experience, the likelihood of getting an undesirable seat is much higher on legacy seat assignment carriers than Southwest.

Something not mentioned about the SW process is that if you have a connecting flight, you get checked in for both flights at the same time. This means you get checked in for the second leg before someone who is originating in the connecting city.

I've never noticed dual jetways at ALB. Maybe only SWA has them (which would make sense considering their boarding system), or maybe the other airlines' gates have them but don't use them. I'm almost certain that JetBlue doesn't have them. I'm pretty sure I would have noticed.

I've never flown SWA into or out of ALB, but I've found it to be a pleasant, efficient airport in general. I've never had any unpleasant experiences there. But then again, my bases for comparison are JFK, LGA, EWR, and PHL, so it's a pretty low bar.

By the time I moved out of Queens, I'd gotten into the habit of flying out of HPN even though I lived only a few miles from LGA. Even with the drive and (usually) the need for a connecting flight, it was worth it just to avoid the nightmare that was LGA.

Rich

 

[JGoodish]

You guys who get C boarding group must really be slow to check in. I’ve flown Southwest all over the country for years, for both business and with the family, and I’ve maybe received C once. I have received high B numbers, though, but have *NEVER* been stuck with a middle seat (though for me, a middle is perhaps preferable to an aisle where I’m constantly beaten up by FAs and passengers in the aisle). I’ve also never been separated from my family, though we don’t all insist on sitting in the same row. However, I’m always ready to click the button right at 24 hours, though a few times I’ve forgotten until a couple hours later and still been okay. Then again, my preferred seat is usually last row window; if you want a front seat, you probably need a low A group number.

I’ve tried the “Early Bird” check- in a couple of times and honestly think it’s a scam. I’ve had no better groups/numbers and my average is probably worse with Early Bird than without. There is nothing exclusive with Early Bird, as they will sell it to everyone on the plane and there’s no way to know how many Early Birds have been sold for a particular flight.

Traveling Business Select is way nicer, because there’s no check-in stress for a preferred boarding position.


JKG

 

[danhagan]

I get on Southwest and pick the middle seat. If someone sits next to me it's usually the aisle, then I move to window which is what I want. Gettin an aisle or window seat is for amateurs. Getting the whole row is for the pro's. The planes usually full enough that it doesn't work but it did once.

You're a gambler now, planes are full ... see below ...

Probably half my flights are full, so I grab a window and ten minutes later start making eye contact with skinny, small passengers who look like they recently bathed and won't talk politics. As an early boarder, I like the ability to have some control over my seat destiny compared to the random chance of other airlines.

With guys too? ... see below

You guys who get C boarding group must really be slow to check in.

Sometimes I have a "B" and board near "C" on purpose. All the guys above are "camping" their spots, hoping the 400 lb sweaty guy isn't going to be their "friend" for the next 1-2 hours If I'm solo, I keep cruising towards the back of the plane looking for a small pax that isn't coughing, doesn't have greasy hair, and preferably is pre-occupied with their phone or music ... works every time and I usually end up with aisle. Often I will recognize someone on the flight and sit with them.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

I used to fly on Southwest and I hated it. Because of the situation, my company purchased my ticket a couple hours prior to departure. Guaranteed middle seat with every jerk in the world eyeballing me to not sit next to them. I had several folks even ask me to not take their middle seat. The flight attendants would then rush over and insist that I take that seat. It also seemed that I was seated next to the local drunk. Because I was wearing an airline uniform, I got to pay 20 questions with the drunk.

 

[mscard88]

I used to fly on Southwest and I hated it. Because of the situation, my company purchased my ticket a couple hours prior to departure. Guaranteed middle seat with every jerk in the world eyeballing me to not sit next to them. I had several folks even ask me to not take their middle seat. The flight attendants would then rush over and insist that I take that seat. It also seemed that I was seated next to the local drunk. Because I was wearing an airline uniform, I got to pay 20 questions with the drunk.

That's why I tried to change into a 'civilian' shirt before I nonrevved or JS'd. Worse was when they'd ask if you're a pilot, while you're in full uniform.

 

[Fearless Tower]

It is always odd to me that people object to SWA's boarding - it is considerably more orderly than other carriers' (unless you're First Class or big status), such that you can remain seated in the lounge until your time to board.

More ‘orderly’? That’s an interesting way to put it.

Last time I flew SWA, they assigned a boarding group with a number. Let’s say A35. And the gate agents made everyone line up in their groups AND in numerical order before they would start the boarding process.

If being treated like you are back in grade school is your thing, I guess it could be considered more orderly.

Nobody on Southwest sits and waits in the lounge until they are called anymore than the other majors. They all line up in their boarding groups/zones just as soon as the gate agent starts making announcements regardless of what logo is on the gate.



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[Fearless Tower]

Do couples and families get split up often, when seated on Southwest?

Not sure if this is still the case, but shortly after Herb retired and they introduced the Business Select thing, SWA announced a policy that families traveling with small children would no longer be allowed to pre-board, but would be allowed to board between the A and B groups.

That was right about the time we had our first child. We stopped flying Southwest as a family. Now that the kids are older and we wouldn’t need to preboard, we don’t fly SWA because they are always more expensive than Delta.


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[abqtj]

Not sure if this is still the case, but shortly after Herb retired and they introduced the Business Select thing, SWA announced a policy that families traveling with small children would no longer be allowed to pre-board, but would be allowed to board between the A and B groups.

That was right about the time we had our first child. We stopped flying Southwest as a family. Now that the kids are older and we wouldn’t need to preboard, we don’t fly SWA because they are always more expensive than Delta.


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Sorta

If they have an A boarding number, they board before A group. All others board between A and B groups.


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[Zeldman]

That's why I tried to change into a 'civilian' shirt before I nonrevved or JS'd. Worse was when they'd ask if you're a pilot, while you're in full uniform.

No ma'am, I am a Star Fleet Commander....

Or, No ma'am, the pilot has a known heart condition and the co-pilot was hired this morning... I'm here just in case....

 

[jonnyjetprop]

The worst was when I was standing out in front of the Don Shula Golf Club (yes, they had hotel rooms as well). A car pulled up and the driver got out. He seemed a little perturbed. He then pulled his clubs out of the car and handed them to me. I told him that I was an airline pilot and not the bellboy. He just shruged his shoulders as the bellboy comes running over and tells me not to touch the guests clubs. I'm not sure what was worse. Getting confused for a bellboy or the bellboy actually thinking that I was muscling in on his tips.

That's why I tried to change into a 'civilian' shirt before I nonrevved or JS'd. Worse was when they'd ask if you're a pilot, while you're in full uniform.

stst

 

[Sluggo63]

In my experience, the likelihood of getting an undesirable seat is much higher on legacy seat assignment carriers than Southwest.

How does that work? On a full flight, 1/3 of the passengers get a middle seat. Same on SWA and United.

Something not mentioned about the SW process is that if you have a connecting flight, you get checked in for both flights at the same time. This means you get checked in for the second leg before someone who is originating in the connecting city.

Doesn’t matter because all the through passengers have first crack, don’t they? So anyone on the originating flight that was stuck in a middle seat moves to a window or aisle once the plane is deboarded, don’t they?

 

[Fearless Tower]

Which policies at other airlines do not allow employees to be human beings?

American. Everyone I know who works there is miserable. And the worst part of it is when US Airways took over American, they adopted AMRs procedures......so they just spread the misery.



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[Van Johnston]

How does that work? On a full flight, 1/3 of the passengers get a middle seat. Same on SWA and United.

I mean in my personal experience. It works that way because legacy carriers assign seats at time of booking, so if I buy a ticket say two weeks prior, and it it going to be a pretty full flight, it it likely all the aisles and windows will be gone, and I will be stuck in the middle. Whereas on SW, as long as I am prompt about checking in, I rarely get a middle seat. YMMV

Doesn’t matter because all the through passengers have first crack, don’t they? So anyone on the originating flight that was stuck in a middle seat moves to a window or aisle once the plane is deboarded, don’t they?

You are correct regarding through passengers, but I wasn't talking about through passengers. I was talking about a connecting passenger vs a passenger originating in the connecting city.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I fly Southwest a lot.

Probably half my flights are full

That says a lot about SWA.....I haven’t been on a flight on another Major with empty seats in a very long time.

Probably has something to do with SWA no longer being cheap.




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[SkyDog58]

American. Everyone I know who works there is miserable. And the worst part of it is when US Airways took over American, they adopted AMRs procedures......so they just spread the misery.



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You named another airline but didn’t list what policies they have that do not allow their employees to be human beings. Which of their policies versus Southwest’s do you take exception to?

 

[Larry in TN]

Nobody on Southwest sits and waits in the lounge until they are called anymore than the other majors. They all line up in their boarding groups/zones just as soon as the gate agent starts making announcements regardless of what logo is on the gate.

That is only out of ignorance. There is no reason to line up more than a minute or two before your group is called under the SWA system. Your boarding group number saves your spot in line which you can join at any time regardless of how long everyone else in your group has been standing in line.

If space is a problem, just join the back of the line for the group before yours then side-step across to your spot as you reach it.

 

[kayoh190]

American. Everyone I know who works there is miserable.

I'm not miserable, nor are any of the pilots I've worked with. I'm sure we have our share, though.

 

[Everskyward]

Last time I flew SWA, they assigned a boarding group with a number. Let’s say A35. And the gate agents made everyone line up in their groups AND in numerical order before they would start the boarding process.

If being treated like you are back in grade school is your thing, I guess it could be considered more orderly.

I have no problem with this system. I always buy "wanna get away". My solution to getting a better number in the boarding queue is to either set an alarm to check in as close to 24 hours before as I can, or buy the $12.50/leg "early bird" boarding. I have never gotten stuck in the middle, and there was a period of time when I flew Southwest a lot. I can see where it might be a problem if you want to be seated in a group, however. I always traveled alone.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I have no problem with this system. I always buy "wanna get away". My solution to getting a better number in the boarding queue is to either set an alarm to check in as close to 24 hours before as I can, or buy the $12.50/leg "early bird" boarding. I have never gotten stuck in the middle, and there was a period of time when I flew Southwest a lot. I can see where it might be a problem if you want to be seated in a group, however. I always traveled alone.

In fairness, I can and have tolerated the Southwest system, but don’t since they are always more expensive.

 

[Fearless Tower]

You named another airline but didn’t list what policies they have that do not allow their employees to be human beings. Which of their policies versus Southwest’s do you take exception to?

It isn't about a specific policy as much as it is a corporate culture of micromanagement that leaves the employees I have talked to feeling like they are not valued.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'm not miserable, nor are any of the pilots I've worked with. I'm sure we have our share, though.

Out of curiosity, are you a recent hire?

I have a few friends and acquaintances (both pilots and FAs) at American. The only one that I know is happy and has no complaints is the guy who is a recent hire and went straight from flying F-18s to American after the merger.

The pilots and 2 FAs I know who were original AMR hate the place. A lot of that is leftover resentment watching corporate leadership run the airline into the ground. Their complaints are all the same. Micromanagement at its worst.

The pilots I know who were USAirways, are pi$$ed now because they felt like they had a good thing going, but when they completed the merger, they adopted the AMR operating procedures and the micromanagement that the AMR employees hated.

I'm sure there are people that are content though. I just don't hear any AA guys speaking positively about their jobs like the guys I know at Delta, Southwest and even UAL.

 

[Fearless Tower]

That is only out of ignorance. There is no reason to line up more than a minute or two before your group is called under the SWA system. Your boarding group number saves your spot in line which you can join at any time regardless of how long everyone else in your group has been standing in line.

I don't disagree with you….but it still happens. I guess that is what sheeple do. They see the big columns with the boarding groups on them and they instinctively line up. The crowds at the Southwest gates look just like the crowds at the other Majors.

 

[SkyDog58]

It isn't about a specific policy as much as it is a corporate culture of micromanagement that leaves the employees I have talked to feeling like they are not valued.

Got it.

 

[Larry in TN]

They see the big columns with the boarding groups on them and they instinctively line up.

That leaves more seats for the rest of us who understand the boarding system.

 

[kayoh190]

Out of curiosity, are you a recent hire?

I have a few friends and acquaintances (both pilots and FAs) at American. The only one that I know is happy and has no complaints is the guy who is a recent hire and went straight from flying F-18s to American after the merger.

I've been here about 4 years, and was hired by US Airways. Can't comment about the FAs or other non-pilot workgroups, but it's possible that our different experiences come from how we define 'miserable'. Most of us at AA have issues with our contract - especially some of the stuff that we gave up from the Airways side after the merger. The TWA guys are still upset about their treatment during the earlier merger with AA. But to me, not being happy with many areas of our contract doesn't necessarily make us miserable. I can count on one hand the number of pilots I've worked with over 4 years that I'd actually consider to be 'miserable', and I'm pretty confident that they'd be miserable anywhere.

I had a sim instructor on the jumpseat the other day and he made the comment that he hasn't seen the schoolhouse so happy in over 30 years. We're all making a ton of money, the airline is wildly profitable, and people are moving up the ranks at record speed. I’m pretty happy, and most people I fly with will readily ***** about our contract while also admitting that it’s just about the best job on the planet.

Pilots love to whine, and lord knows we do a lot of it. But miserable? Not the guys I’ve worked with at least. I’ll be the first to ***** about AA, but overall I’ve really enjoyed the people I’ve worked with. ::shrug::

 

[nauga]

No ma'am, I am a Star Fleet Commander....

I was once at a very crowded comic convention at a hotel just outside LAX when a crew bus pulled up. As the captain walked by I said, "Nice cosplay." If looks could kill the frag pattern would have taken out half the lobby.

Nauga,
who is not easily impressed

 

[Fearless Tower]

I've been here about 4 years, and was hired by US Airways. Can't comment about the FAs or other non-pilot workgroups, but it's possible that our different experiences come from how we define 'miserable'. Most of us at AA have issues with our contract - especially some of the stuff that we gave up from the Airways side after the merger. The TWA guys are still upset about their treatment during the earlier merger with AA. But to me, not being happy with many areas of our contract doesn't necessarily make us miserable. I can count on one hand the number of pilots I've worked with over 4 years that I'd actually consider to be 'miserable', and I'm pretty confident that they'd be miserable anywhere.

I had a sim instructor on the jumpseat the other day and he made the comment that he hasn't seen the schoolhouse so happy in over 30 years. We're all making a ton of money, the airline is wildly profitable, and people are moving up the ranks at record speed. I’m pretty happy, and most people I fly with will readily ***** about our contract while also admitting that it’s just about the best job on the planet.

Pilots love to whine, and lord knows we do a lot of it. But miserable? Not the guys I’ve worked with at least. I’ll be the first to ***** about AA, but overall I’ve really enjoyed the people I’ve worked with. ::shrug::

You’re right, pilots do like to *****. And perhaps miserable might be a strong word for a generalization, although I would indeed say the AMR guys I know were actually miserable, but they had such a bad taste for AMR management that they are literally counting the days to retirement.

I’ve seen the same thing in the military when a bad CO leaves, but people are so bitter that they can’t see any improvement. That was the feeling I get talking to the former AMR pilots and FAs I know.

 

[SkyDog58]

I was once at a very crowded comic convention at a hotel just outside LAX when a crew bus pulled up. As the captain walked by I said, "Nice cosplay." If looks could kill the frag pattern would have taken out half the lobby.

Nauga,
who is not easily impressed

Have you seen the retired airline captain who is currently an aviation expert on CBS? Although he is retired, he wears a pilot shirt with epaulets and wings every time he’s on air.

 

[nauga]

Have you seen [...] an aviation expert on CBS?

No.

Nauga,
and the few and far between

 

[kayoh190]

You’re right, pilots do like to *****. And perhaps miserable might be a strong word for a generalization, although I would indeed say the AMR guys I know were actually miserable, but they had such a bad taste for AMR management that they are literally counting the days to retirement.

As you alluded to, my meager four years on property can be part of it too. I wasn't around for the bankruptcy years or the tough TWA merger. I *was* around when we voted in the contract we're currently flying under, and it has a lot of problems. I think a lot of pilots saw the $$$ and glossed over all the stuff we gave up in work rules. There's also a big "we've always done it this way at AA" attitude with the senior guys, and the APA therefore couldn't wrap its head around the fact that US Airways and even America West had contract provisions that were far superior than what existed at AA.

So yeah, we have some work to do. But overall I think the mood has been mostly positive lately, at least where I'm based. The LGA crews are great, and we're finally starting to see some younger, fun FAs in the ranks. Even the senior ones can be convinced to go out for beers these days. And frankly, the flying is still fun. It's not without its faults of course, but I still look forward to going into work, which is pretty cool IMO.

 

[mscard88]

kayon you ever run into "Meat"? Used to fly at TWA and also flew AC-130s in the AF Reserve at Duke Field. I think he may have played football at the Academy. Big guy, cool as hell. Sorry don't remember his real name.