Sourcing Replacement Parts for an Old(ish) Airplane

At airlines AMOCs are actually done fairly frequently. Someday, I might be willing to climb that mountain in GA for something if I thought it would be of significant benefit or no alternatives or it's marketable. I'm not even close to that point, and I am buried.

I just want to fly my airplane. I had to cover a couple shifts for someone else last weekend, and that killed any chance of flying I had.

Starting tomorrow, get air into tires or check pressure anyway, and go fly (another trip to Tractor Supply).
 
Tom-D said:
Show me any A&P-IA that knows every thing there is about all ADs on ALL aircraft, I'll show you a danger to us all.
Click to expand...
Show me an A&P/IA who starts doing things without reading the relevant AD first and I'll show you a danger to us all.

It would have been way too easy for you to simply tell me the SB requires new parts, rather that try to BS about AMOC
Click to expand...
It would have been even easier for you to research the issue before throwing out your suggestion. But since you have in the past shown that you don't have much if any experience with or knowledge about Grummans, I suppose I should not be surprised that you did not realize this.
 
bnt83 said:
I take it these Grumman bolts don't fall out like beech wings?
Click to expand...
Yes. There is almost a foot of overlap between the wing spar tubes and the center spar tube, and you'd notice the wing starting to slide out long before it became a serious problem.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not if it's properly documented in the aircraft maintenance records.

Unless, of course, you think the entry was falsified, in which case you're saying you don't believe what's in the maintenance records, and in that case, you have throw them away and start from scratch on everything ever done to the airplane -- essentially, disassemble it and put it back together again. I suppose that in some extreme cases where a lot of work was done by a mechanic who has since been shown to have falsified a lot of records you might need to do that, but I don't see that as a major concern normally.
Click to expand...


There are plenty of "one time" AD's that can be fouled up by maintenance at later date. One that I can think of OTTOMH is the firewall shutoff valve AD on C177, which specifies very specific control wire lengths, torquing of the attachment nut, and safety wiring the knob with breakaway wire.
 
bnt83 said:
There are plenty of "one time" AD's that can be fouled up by maintenance at later date. One that I can think of OTTOMH is the firewall shutoff valve AD on C177, which specifies very specific control wire lengths, torquing of the attachment nut, and safety wiring the knob with breakaway wire.
Click to expand...
So, do you have your mechanic check every year on annual each item subject to an AD where the AD was documented as c/w? That's going to be expensive and time-consuming, and as stated on this one, likely to damage the bolts to the point of requiring replacement -- again.

As to Henning's point, yes, they can be re-used if not significantly scratched, but I don't know many mechanics (including the Grumman experts like Blackman, Scott, Sjaardema, Steward, and Fletcher) who are comfortable judging what constitutes "fretting or damage [which is not] beyond the typical scratches of assembly and disassembly", so they are a lot happier signing the AD if the scratched bolts are replaced with new.
 
Wow, if a mechanic can't determine if the damage is to the coating or the underlying metal, I don't know what to think about that.
 
Ron Levy said:
So, do you have your mechanic check every year on annual each item subject to an AD where the AD was documented as c/w? That's going to be expensive and time-consuming, and as stated on this one, likely to damage the bolts to the point of requiring replacement -- again.
Click to expand...


If I removed a cylinder due to cracking AD, how do I know the OH one I'm about to install isn't affected by the same AD? What about new old stock? At the discretion of the person signing the book, but yes, they should be familiar with all the ADs on the plane IMHO.
 
Last edited:
bnt83 said:
If I removed a cylinder due to cracking AD, how do I know the OH one I'm about to install isn't affected by the same AD?
Click to expand...
Because the parts release paperwork (Form 8130-3, aka "yellow tag", even if they are no longer yellow) from the overhaul shop says so. And if it doesn't, then I'm dealing with the wrong OH shop.

What about new old stock?
Click to expand...
???

At the discretion of the person signing the book, but yes, they should be familiar with all the ADs on the plane IMHO.
Click to expand...
Sure, but if the engine log says the oil impeller is the right one per the AD, they aren't going to go disassemble the engine to make sure it is.
 
Henning said:
Wow, if a mechanic can't determine if the damage is to the coating or the underlying metal, I don't know what to think about that.
Click to expand...
Even if the damage is just to the coating, it still requires replacement if it is more than "normal minor marks caused by installation and removal", and who knows what that is unless they've removed a lot of them? Note that other than for this AD, shoulder bolt removal doesn't happen on these planes but once every 7250 hours (which very few have seen) or when the wings are pulled, which doesn't happen often. The Grumman mechanics I know aren't willing to take that risk to save $200, so they replace rather than re-use if they see scratching.
 
Ron Levy said:
Because the parts release paperwork (Form 8130-3, aka "yellow tag", even if they are no longer yellow) from the overhaul shop says so. And if it doesn't, then I'm dealing with the wrong OH shop.

???

Sure, but if the engine log says the oil impeller is the right one per the AD, they aren't going to go disassemble the engine to make sure it is.
Click to expand...


I'll be very disappointed if you don't realize that parts can be overhauled and RTS'ed and sit in inventory for months and even years and the shipping guy is grabbing it and tossing it into a box shipped directly to you with a mx release dated January 12, 2012.



New old stock, you've never heard that term?

Also, a yellow tag doesn't mean squat unless the AD's were specifically noted on them.
 
Last edited:
bnt83 said:
I take it these Grumman bolts don't fall out like beech wings?
Click to expand...

Not to be pedantic, but the Beech wing bolts did not fall out. On a small group of planes on the aerobatic side, the bolts would fail after many cycles of acro on the T-34s, and they were limited to normal category ops. The T-34 is the exact same wing design and hold method as the Bonanza/Debonair. An STC company has come up with an elegant repair to the T-34 wing bolt/spar carrythrough that embeds a cable swage through the two lower spar bolts.

But, you were kinda close. :)
 
docmirror said:
Not to be pedantic, but the Beech wing bolts did not fall out. On a small group of planes on the aerobatic side, the bolts would fail after many cycles of acro on the T-34s, and they were limited to normal category ops. The T-34 is the exact same wing design and hold method as the Bonanza/Debonair. An STC company has come up with an elegant repair to the T-34 wing bolt/spar carrythrough that embeds a cable swage through the two lower spar bolts.

But, you were kinda close. :)
Click to expand...


Beech bolts pretty much fall out when the nuts are removed...
 
Ron Levy said:
Show me an A&P/IA who starts doing things without reading the relevant AD first and I'll show you a danger to us all.

I had no reason to read the AD until you wouldn't answer a simple question.

It would have been even easier for you to research the issue before throwing out your suggestion. But since you have in the past shown that you don't have much if any experience with or knowledge about Grummans, I suppose I should not be surprised that you did not realize this.
Click to expand...

I asked a simple question, you came up with a smart aleck answer, now it's my fault. Yeah Right.

And no, I'm not an expert on Grummans, simply because I don't care to be.
 
OBTW folks, there is only one person who can declare airworthiness of any part, And the 8030 tag is not required to do that.

If you think it is, try getting a 8030 tag from a salvage yard on a used part.
 
As long as the materials are the same as specified and the sizes correct you can use any mil-spec or SAE standard.

kontiki said:
To be honest, I didn't look into it. I had the shop accomplish an annual immediately following the prebuy. The AD bolt thing came up in prebuy. At that point, I just didn't want the plane to sit in the hangar too long while we messed with bolts.

Also, Fletch Air holds the PMA for manufacturing the bolts. I suspect it would have to be one of their approved sub vendors that did the plating for it to to be approved. If the paperwork processes aren't already in place to the point it's routine, it could turn into another lengthy goat rope.

All in all, I was already overloaded with details from purchase of my first plane, I have limited free time and a lot to come up to speed on with the new airplane.

I expect that my maintenance costs will be higher than absolutely necessary first year on first airplane. As with all things I have done, I will learn and get the extra costs under control as I gain experience and knowledge. I do appreciate all the suggestions though.
Click to expand...
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
As long as the materials are the same as specified and the sizes correct you can use any mil-spec or SAE standard.
Click to expand...

Tony, looking at the IPC, I'd say the original bolt was defined on a manufacturing drawing.

There are a lot of parts like that in the IPC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top