Soloed today.....and blew the nose wheel.

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LeeDeep

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LeeDeep
Well today was the day. After the last two lessons being 100% pattern work with weather not suitable for the first solo, I jumped on the schedule this afternoon when I saw relatively calm winds (about 5 kts crosswind) and clear skies. Finally this would be the day. I had to wait on the student before me and as she taxied in, I noticed that the nose wheel was a little low relative to the rest of the gear. I made note of it, but regrettably didn't mention it to the CFI. Foolish.

I had a number of landings to get over my habit of wrestling with the plane on flare. I respond with slight, yet rapid, inputs to the changes in attitude in ground effect. It results in not as smooth landings, but nothing frightening. When I consciously think to be slow and smooth in my inputs, all goes well. My last two landings were great. The ones before.... A little skidding here and there and one just plain botched. But the last two were butter. Then the instructor asked if was ready and grabbed my log book for endorsement.

I run the pattern, come in for a landing... Smooth. As soon as the nose wheel touches, I get the wobble of death that takes me back to my jeep wrangler ownership days. Actually it wasn't as scary but it was clear something was up. Sure enough, flat nose wheel. The FBO comes to the rescue with a tug and all is well. The guys tell me that it can happen when the tire pressure is low, and as the sun sets and the temp drops. Both were true, and they are letting me off the hook, but I can't help but think I could have done better, and they are just trying to make me not feel so bad.

In the end, the plane is in one piece, and not a single other plane had to hold in pattern as a result of my sitting in the runway for 5 or 6 mins (thankfully there was a lull in traffic).
 
LeeDeep said:
I made note of it, but regrettably didn't mention it
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So I am not one to scrub a flight cuz there is just a paint chip off the wing...but the lesson here is if you are not 100% sure about something being right...check that...110% sure about something that looks even a bit off, get a second opinion from someone with MORE experience before YOU make the go/no go decision.

I am lucky my A/P is within a stones throw of my plane and more than once called him over to take a look at something that that didn't seem quite right. 9 times outta 10...it was a go to fly, but no one with more experience is gonna look down on ya if you ask for help with a decision.

Making the call on you own can kill you.
 
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Next time bring up all things I did all the time, because really if there is a big issue and you are not sure just don't go i did it many times even if the cfi would have said ahh u can go.. because soon you will go yourself and you can't take those chances.
 
Don't worry about it, s**t happens. Learn from your mistakes and move on.
 
Wait...your instructor was still there after your first solo circuit in the pattern? Has he no life?
 
I didn't intentionally not bring it up. But when I noticed it, I was inside and excited. I forgot about it and it wasn't quite as noticeable up close during the preflight. It did last 5 or 6 landings. Of course this is a learning experience. I am thankful it didn't turn out to be worse, but instead of happy photos after first solo, I get the ride of shame on the tug. So it's disappointing. And as my own worst critic, I am running through whether it was 80% low pressure and 20% lack of skill that resulted in the blow out, or the other way around. Either way, I realize its 100% oversight. Just trying to decide if it would have been a non issue in the hands of the typically experienced student pilot. I know that will likely never be answered though. Ego is bruised for sure, but lesson learned and forward we go.
 
And congrats on soloing! And btw had a jeep and had that terrible death wobble.. And had the shimmy shake in my 152 many times a violent shake, even on my checkride! One time on take off it shook so hard the ELT went off it was pretty crazy..
 
I think this was a pretty bad mistake by you to not bring up something you noticed as a possible safety issue. It seems like you let your excitement for soloing interfere with your judgement and, to me, that is cause for some serious concern. I always want to go flying when I get the chance but it is ultra important to balance that want with real safety. You noticed a problem and did not report it to anyone. You put yourself in some danger!

It is important to let people know when something does not look right. If during pre-flight you notice something is wrong go in and get someone from the flight school to verify what you notice is not a big deal( early on after I got my PPL I was going on an XC by myself and during pre-flight I noticed a frayed wire in the tail. I went inside and got the head of the school and asked if he could come take a look- turns out it was just a frayed wire to one of the antennas but I did not know so I got someone.)

I'm glad everything worked out and my intention is not to be overly harsh but it seems like you got a good reminder about how important safety is!
 
Brad Z said:
Wait...your instructor was still there after your first solo circuit in the pattern? Has he no life?
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Maybe it's a long walk from the runway to the FBO and he was waiting to be taxi'd back :goofy:
 
Congrats on the solo! You had a flat tire. You left no parts on the runway. It was a great day!

Rent the plane and do it again. ;)
 
you adapted to the circumstances and kept the plane under control. That is what all the training is about.
The CFI had the responsibility to notice the slack tire before he let a student take it out alone. . So you are as good as he is.

Now my input is not going to be about the tire. It is your comment on getting a nervous yoke during the flare.
The airplane is not suddenly getting squirrely in the flare, you are.
It is landing anxiety. You WANT the airplane to land right NOW - and it is not ready.

Get the CFI to go with you.
You will use the yoke to control the ailerons only during the landing. You will control pitch ONLY with the trim wheel.
Add 3 or 4 knots to your usual speed over the fence for this exercise.
Now, using the trim wheel only make a smooth roundout as you come over the fence and close the throttle over the numbers. Now keep the mains just 6 inches off the ground for as long as you can - keep gently rolling in nose up trim as it tries to sink - the plane will lose energy and gradually sink, despite your best efforts to keep it up, until the mains start rolling. The nose will be definitely pitched up by then - no wheel barrows on this landing. It will likely be the best landing of your career.

When I work with someone with this problem I demonstrate and have them follow me through (discuss with your CFI ahead of time - he may need to slip out and get some practice before taking you).
Next circuit I control the ailerons/rudder/throttle and have them control pitch with just the trim wheel. It usually takes a couple of landings for them to feel out how fast and how much pitch to add as the plane tries to sink. Once the little person inside their head gets the idea that a smooth landing is like good sex - how long can you keep it up - I then have them do all the flying.
You will finesse the plane to keep flying without power for as long as aerodynamically possible.
99 and 44/100% of landings are made long before the plane is ready to quit flying.
 
jspilot said:
I'm glad everything worked out and my intention is not to be overly harsh but it seems like you got a good reminder about how important safety is!
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I don't mind harsh. In fact I appreciate criticism as long as justified. Definitely learned a lesson. And one day, I may just appreciate a solo story with a twist. Just thought I'd share my slant on it since it's not the typical and/or desired experience.
 
Nice advice Denny. Appreciate it. Not so much landing anxiety as it is anxiety about the turbulence and not wanting the plane to fall to the ground with a small gust. The airport is within a mile of the Gulf of Mexico, so wind is a constant and with a the high rise condos it is almost always swirly to some extent. So when I feel that slight drop, I twitch the yoke back slight, but just too far. I just need to not twitch. I know the problem, I just need to override and reprogram the instinct. My CFI says don't react, just let the plane fly. Your suggestion may help since inputs to the wheel end up as smooth input to the trim/elevator. At least more so than the yoke.
 
I'll bet you don't let a low tire go by again.

You handled the situation and learned from it, with no bent metal and minimal expense. Mission accomplished.
 
Glad everything worked out.. and congrats on the solo… on one of my solos I was doing my run up the Cherokee felt like it wanted to stall at "Idle Check".. since I flew that plane many times and it NEVER felt like that I called the office and they sent one of the mechanics right down to the run up area.. Turned out to be nothing but the flight was that much better without me having that worry..
 
This may be irrelevant but.

If you ever have that happen (wobble of death) and get out of the plane and the tire is not flat and you are scratching your head, could be the shimmy dampener.

Trained for a bit in a 172 with a bad shimmy dampener. Sometimes we put that nose wheel down and the plan would feel like it was going to shake itself apart.

A little back pressure will stop the shaking.

More importantly
Congratulations on your Solo!!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This may be irrelevant but.

If you ever have that happen (wobble of death) and get out of the plane and the tire is not flat and you are scratching your head, could be the shimmy dampener.

Trained for a bit in a 172 with a bad shimmy dampener. Sometimes we put that nose wheel down and the plan would feel like it was going to shake itself apart.

A little back pressure will stop the shaking.

More importantly
Congratulations on your Solo!!
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We had that issue on one of our club aircraft. A Lord dampener (included on all new Cessna's now) solved that problem real quick. And it doesn't need servicing, either.

OP, congrats on the solo! It's a huge, memorable step.
 
Did you swallow? Congrats on the solo. That is an incredible accomplishment few people on this planet will ever experience.
 
Congrats on the solo. And train yourself to not ignore anything out of the ordinary; follow up. Along with forcing yourself to go back and do something that slipped your mind. Don't take problems into the air.
 
Would've been nice to check it ... but that's hindsight now. Also, you'll pre-flight much better and STILL have things that can show up later.

One of my flights I had a new right main gear go flat during touchdown. I check tires closely (i.e. including rolling them a bit) and all were fine on pre-flight. I picked up a nail during taxi (construction at airport) and am guessing it was losing pressure in flight.

FBO came out immediately looking for a bald spot stating I bought it if there was one ... mechanic found nail fairly fast.
 
danhagan said:
... mechanic found nail fairly fast.
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I am hoping they tell me there was a nail or something when I go back tomorrow. They were more concerned with getting her off the only runway quickly and into a hangar. It was just at 5, so those boys where ready to go home themselves. Probably good old fashioned oversight on my part though. :mad2:

In any case, my mother reminded me that I soloed 110 years to the day that the Wright boys soloed themselves in a powered aircraft. Neither one of us used brakes after touchdown. :D That little fun fact makes for a better story, so I might just go with that one for my grand kids some day.

Wingsofglass said:
Did you swallow? Congrats on the solo. That is an incredible accomplishment few people on this planet will ever experience.
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I see what you did there.
 
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Congrats on your solo,stuff happens,no injuries. May take a little damper of the good feeling you have after the solo. Now you know you can handle a flat on landing.
 
Was your instructor still at the airport when this happened?
 
This is no comment on your tire problem, but flats do happen. Bad flats also happen, sometimes bad luck, sometimes bad decisions. At my flight school they keep a tire in the office to show people that is 100% flat (but not ruptured) on one side, it was basically a brand new tire when it happened. You can see the underlying weave in the tire, so as close as you could get to blowing the tire.

Now the story behind the tire. It came off the flight schools Mooney, which they use for hp and complex training. A CFI was up with a student and they were coming in for a landing CFI was in control, and the CFI for unknown reasons locked the brakes on the wheel bofore touchdown. The mechanics found no mechanical problems with the brakes proving that it was intentionally applied by the pilot. My CFI said it is not uncommon for pilots with retract gear to tap the brakes right after takeoff to stop the wheels from rotating before retracting the gear. He could not imagin why someone would be on the brakes during landing. The noise was loud enough that the school owner inside the hanger came running out to see what had happened.

The CFI then came out of the plane and instantly went into defensive mode, that they had done nothing wrong. The owner was looking for an appology for damaging the plane, endangering a student, and wanted the CFI to pay for the tire. The CFI refused on all accounts. The CFI was susequently fired, and the student has not been seen from again. That CFI was later sited as at fault in a water landing.
 
KA550 said:
Was your instructor still at the airport when this happened?
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Yes, he was there. After he jumped out of the plane, he drove down to the approach end of the runway with a handheld to watch. He said he was confused as to why I came to a stop on the runway. There was no other plane in the pattern so it took me about 15 seconds or so to figure out what to call to traffic, and get help (that's not exactly a radio call you practice :rolleyes:. So to him, with that front row seat, it wasn't evident that I lost a tire. Must have been doing something right after all.
 
Congrats on the solo and landing!!
 
Mistakes happen. This one was fairly mild, and you handled it well.

Here's one that happened to me.

During a complex checkout in a Cessna 177RG, my instructor called for a no-flap takeoff. These are approved in the model, but most takeoffs are done at 10 deg. I found out why. They need a lot of runway. I over-rotated a little and took over 2000 feet to lift off. On a 3000 foot runway. The aircraft then settled back to the runway. At this point, something was wrong and I wasn't sure I'd make it off, so I opted to abort the takeoff. There wasn't much margin -- from Vr, the aircraft needed 800 feet at maximum performance to stop. In retrospect, I probably would have made the takeoff without much trouble, but I've long had a habit to identify the point of no return on the runway and it was my first no-flap takeoff in type, so I really didn't know. My instructor then got on the brakes as well, and the predictable thing happened -- with two controllers, the right brake locked. The tire was toast. Tower told us our brakes were on fire (it was actually the tire).

What happened here? Fundamentally, it was a communication failure. We should not have both been on the brakes at the same time, and yet neither of us could get off it for fear the other would as well, and a dead tire is better than a runway overrun. So, we had a heart-to-heart about positive exchange of control even in an emergency (where an "I got it" would be sufficient).

The damage? One tire and two egos. It could have been a whole lot worse, and both of us learned something from it.
 
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LeeDeep said:
Yes, he was there. After he jumped out of the plane, he drove down to the approach end of the runway with a handheld to watch. He said he was confused as to why I came to a stop on the runway. There was no other plane in the pattern so it took me about 15 seconds or so to figure out what to call to traffic, and get help (that's not exactly a radio call you practice :rolleyes:. So to him, with that front row seat, it wasn't evident that I lost a tire. Must have been doing something right after all.
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Tell your instructor to quit stalking you while you're soloing and haunting the airport like a terrorist. Doesn't he have anything better to do, like go to a real job?

:)
 
"Tell your instructor to quit stalking you while you're soloing and haunting the airport like a terrorist. Doesn't he have anything better to do, like go to a real job?"

Now that's funny!
 
I had a flat nose wheel after landing about halfway through training. My instructor was in the plane. The landing was smooth with no issues, but I got the shaking as well. We pulled off onto the taxiway, told tower we'd be stuck for a bit, then shut her down and got out to look. Flat nose wheel tire, sure enough.

My instructor said it was probably FOD on the runway. Happens sometimes. Airport personnel came and picked us up to drive us back to the FBO, and they towed the plane. While we're en route to the FBO, my instructor is still talking about possible FOD. The personnel guy immediately gets defensive; he's responsible for clearing FOD. So he turns to me and says: "probably too hard on the nose wheel brakes, huh?"

As a newbie, in my head for a moment I'm thinking, hmm, maybe it was too much braking. I'm second guessing myself for a split second. Then I crack a bit of a smile. "What nose wheel brakes? We fly a 172." :lol:

That's my flat tire story. Whether it's a nose wheel shimmy or nose wheel flat, as someone mentioned up-thread, back pressure on the yoke will help.
 
When I was training, my instructor had me do the pre-flight. When I got to the nose gear, I thought the tire pressure looked low and pointed it out to my instructor when He came out. He looked at it and said it was fine.

I started up and began taxiing out when the flight line guy from the FBO came running out and signaled me to cut the engine. By now the tire was nearly flat.

The moral is to go with your gut. In hindsight, I should have pulled the POH, checked the rated tire pressure and then recorded the actual tire pressure. That way, I wouldn't have to defer to my CFI.
 
asechrest said:
I had a flat nose wheel after landing about halfway through training. My instructor was in the plane. The landing was smooth with no issues, but I got the shaking as well. We pulled off onto the taxiway, told tower we'd be stuck for a bit, then shut her down and got out to look. Flat nose wheel tire, sure enough.

My instructor said it was probably FOD on the runway. Happens sometimes. Airport personnel came and picked us up to drive us back to the FBO, and they towed the plane. While we're en route to the FBO, my instructor is still talking about possible FOD. The personnel guy immediately gets defensive; he's responsible for clearing FOD. So he turns to me and says: "probably too hard on the nose wheel brakes, huh?"

As a newbie, in my head for a moment I'm thinking, hmm, maybe it was too much braking. I'm second guessing myself for a split second. Then I crack a bit of a smile. "What nose wheel brakes? We fly a 172." :lol:

That's my flat tire story. Whether it's a nose wheel shimmy or nose wheel flat, as someone mentioned up-thread, back pressure on the yoke will help.
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I was doing my check ride and made my first landing...short field, which the DE complimented me on. Turned off the runway and taxi'd back to departure when the plane starts shuddering. I stop, DE sticks his head out and says I have a flat nose wheel. "It's these damn Chinese tires" he says, "Happens a lot!"

I"m the only pilot I know who required two planes to complete his checkride! :)
 
Two days later I had another chance. I put together a quick video. I only have one GoPro so this little vid was pieced together from a few trips around the pattern to make it look like one loop. The magic of editing. All in all, this time was far more successful, and gratifying. Now on to practice stalls in the practice area, solo. That's a bit intimidating, I'm not going to lie.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KbabxKAJIWA
 
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The stall is no big deal - you know exactly what the aircraft will do. Trust it (and keep the ball centered).

When you get a little further along go out and do some spins - it's the same thing you learn what the aircraft will do when you put it in that position and then you learn the proper recovery. Very safe once you've trained with an instructor.
 
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Clark1961 said:
The stall is no big deal - you know exactly what the aircraft will do. Trust it (and keep the ball centered).
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Keep the ball centered. Ha. So easy when you know what to do, and even how to do it. Practicing that finesse is the tough part. And when I don't get it right and those wings roll, it still freaks me out. I know to throttle to idle, opposite rudder, and all will be fine. I know. I'm confident, but still nervous. I guess that's all part of it though.
 
Ask your instructor for some "falling leaf" practice.

It will teach you that (a) this type of spin doesn't develop in an instant (at least in a 172), and (b) your rudder still works.

It builds a lot of confidence that you won't die instantly if the ball is a hair off center during a stall.
 
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MAKG, wow you are an optimist
Most young CFI's I see around never even heard of the falling leaf.
 
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