SoCal Folks: KFUL to KSMO... any tips?

MetalCloud

MetalCloud

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MetalCloud
It's a short distance but that airspace. Whew. I could file IFR but that seems a bit overkill. Is there a local best practice on how to do that?

Thank you!

@ircphoenix @SoCal RV Flyer
 
FF is going to be the easiest way. Otherwise you can try the VFR Mini-Route over LAX which will take you right into KSMO's Class Delta, but you'll be winding around Compton Woody and KTOA's airspace before approaching LAX. I'd prefer FF myself...
 
I'm biased since I fly outta TOA and do FF and mini route all the time... but I'd pick up FF from Fullerton... don't know if it's available on the ground or not... but then I'd go west at 3500 to the Hawthorne/405 (VPLSR) intersection and do the mini route northbound at 2500. Just make sure you follow directions and study up on the mini route northbound if you're not familiar. That dumps you out pointed at SMO anyway.

So KFUL -> VPLFX -> VPLSR -> Mini route (SMO 128 radial) -> KSMO.

You could also do special flight rules northbound... but you'd have to go up to 4500 instead of hanging out at 3500 westbound and dropping down to 2500 to set up for SMO.

In any event, if you keep the 91 off to your right you won't tread into the bravo on accident.
 
Thanks @ircphoenix !!! Solid route dude. That's what I'll do with FF
rtk11 said:
FF is going to be the easiest way. Otherwise you can try the VFR Mini-Route over LAX which will take you right into KSMO's Class Delta, but you'll be winding around Compton Woody and KTOA's airspace before approaching LAX. I'd prefer FF myself...
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FF it is.

I'd like to go around compton since I didn't get the anti-aircraft defense option on the cirrus.
 
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MetalCloud said:
Thanks @ircphoenix !!!


FF it is.

I'd like to go around compton since I didn't get the anti-aircraft defense option on the cirrus.
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Sorry man. You're gonna have to overfly north Long Beach and Compton whether you like it or not. I generally vary my altitude by a couple hundred feet and fly in a loose serpentine pattern. The handguns aren't that accurate. I do need to refill my chaff and flare dispensers though.

Just kidding. Compton isn't nearly as bad as it used to be in the 90's. Still not a place I travel to unnecessarily but I did frequent the area for a year or two without any negative interactions.
 
ircphoenix said:
Sorry man. You're gonna have to overfly north Long Beach and Compton whether you like it or not. I generally vary my altitude by a couple hundred feet and fly in a loose serpentine pattern. The handguns aren't that accurate. I do need to refill my chaff and flare dispensers though.

Just kidding. Compton isn't nearly as bad as it used to be in the 90's. Still not a place I travel to unnecessarily but I did frequent the area for a year or two without any negative interactions.
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Ha! Yeah I plugged the route into ForeFlight.. after seeing that I googled "evasive maneuvers for GA"

I should do a touch and go there... just so when I check in with ATC I can say, "SoCal Departure, Cirrus 1AB straight outta Compton passing 1.5 for 3.5"
 
MetalCloud said:
Thanks @ircphoenix !!! Solid route dude. That's what I'll do with FF


FF it is.

I'd like to go around compton since I didn't get the anti-aircraft defense option on the cirrus.
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Still a new pilot, but it seems you have these two options:

You could fly the upper one at 3000 MSL, staying out of the bravo segments that have 2500 floors and below the bravo segments that have 4000 floors, and optionally not talk to anybody but KFUL and eventually KSMO. Of course, you could use FF.

You could also fly the lower one which takes you over Compton, with the 91 freeway as your guide. Note that even if you start with FF out of KFUL, you need to fully understand how to use the Mini Route which takes you into Hawthorne (KHHR), through the LAX bravo,and into Santa Monica (KSMO).

KFUL to KSMO.jpg
 
Per the LOA, Fullerton will give you a squawk code and turn you to IIRC 230 and SoCal will watch the rest. Pretty easy radio work.
 
I'm not sure you can get FF on the ground heading west from Fullerton, at least not without a major deviation. I believe all "on the ground" FF options at FUL require a 120 heading on departure for a couple miles or so, then you can turn north. You can't get FF headed directly north because there isn't enough time to affect a handoff between sectors.

My recommendation is the northern route over El Monte, then west to intercept the extended centerline for 21 at SMO. This puts you basically on the VOR approach to SMO, so it is easier to get sequenced for a straight in landing.

Jeff
 
I didn't recall correctly... thanks @Jeff Oslick for the correction!

The El Monte way is a good suggestion and gets nice view of the Rose Bowl...
 
You can get FF out of FUL on the ground but you will be assigned a heading of 120 upon departure regardless of direction you wanna go...but that is only until you are handed off to departure and they establish radar contact. As soon as they do you will get vectors or own nav. The 120 procedure is so you do not fly into LGB flight path while trying to contact SoCal if there is a com failure or problem. The 120 heading is really a non issue. I rarely even make it all the way to the 120' before getting own nav and I would rather just take a handoff at departure than trying to establish FF with often a VERY busy controller in the air.

I would take the Mini Route hands down...but you gotta study it and know it all as be ready for a lot of quick radio work. SoCal expects you to know the transition and how to fly it. If you do not know it and have to ask, be prepared to remain clear of Bravo. I fly the Bravo transitions all the time and have never been denied but have heard other babbling clueless pilots told to remain clear. On the above route that is mapped, expect vectors to transition LGB mid field.

My next choice would be via the El Monte route at 3000' or 3500' around and under Bravo as mapped above. I have done that quite a few times between BUR and FUL and it is busy airspace but easy peasy.

Personally I am never a fan of the SFRA transition over LAX cuz I prefer to be on FF from wheels up to wheels down ESPECIALLY in the LA basin and on the SFRA you will be dropped so you can self announce in the SFRA then need to re-etablish on the other side.
 
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Oops. If you do the northerly route, unless you're on FF, note the 3000 floor of Burbank's 30/48 Charlie segment.
 
Why so high? 1900 following 5 and 10 should get you there, with less detouring and much easier landmarks. Just don't fly directly over the skyscrapers. No Dodger games in February.
 
Shawn said:
You can get FF out of FUL on the ground but you will be assigned a heading of 120 upon departure regardless of direction you wanna go...but that is only until you are handed off to departure and they establish radar contact. As soon as they do you will get vectors or own nav. The 120 procedure is so you do not fly into LGB flight path while trying to contact SoCal if there is a com failure or problem. The 120 heading is really a non issue. I rarely even make it all the way to the 120' before getting own nav and I would rather just take a handoff at departure than trying to establish FF with often a VERY busy controller in the air.

I would take the Mini Route hands down...but you gotta study it and know it all as be ready for a lot of quick radio work. SoCal expects you to know the transition and how to fly it. If you do not know it and have to ask, be prepared to remain clear of Bravo. I fly the Bravo transitions all the time and have never been denied but have heard other babbling clueless pilots told to remain clear. On the above route that is mapped, expect vectors to transition LGB mid field.

My next choice would be via the El Monte route at 3000' or 3500' around and under Bravo as mapped above. I have done that quite a few times between BUR and FUL and it is busy airspace but easy peasy.

Personally I am never a fan of the SFRA transition over LAX cuz I prefer to be on FF from wheels up to wheels down ESPECIALLY in the LA basin and on the SFRA you will be dropped so you can self announce in the SFRA then need to re-etablish on the other side.
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Good tips. The mini route and over LAX would be a blast. Would also like the northerly one and get some views of Griffith, Hollywood, etc. I'm in Bay Area so radio and bravo skills should be pretty sharp. I'll save the SFRA for another time I think
 
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Yup, the mini is pretty easy as long as it's open. I'd definitely use it from KTOA. But from KFUL, I'd just go around the Class B. You can fly right over Downtown that way, and get great views of Hollywood.
 
WTH? Just fly the SFRA and you're above all the Delta's and can simply descend as you exit the SFRA - call SMO tower once clear. If you're in 95% of GA airplanes you'll have no problem getting down - the advantage of the SFRA heading NW is that you exit above SMO's Delta so you have time to contact them -

If you're worried about FF then use the Mini route - the advantage to the mini route is you're in contact with ATC who can let SMO know you're on the way - it might be your first rodeo here - but they're doing it every day.
 
I'd just climb to 4500', take the 91 West to 405 North, SFRA over LAX, fly a couple miles past the Getty Center, do a leisurely descending left 180 while contacting SMO Tower...but I'm never in a hurry to get anywhere. :)
 
MAKG1 said:
Why so high? 1900 following 5 and 10 should get you there, with less detouring and much easier landmarks. Just don't fly directly over the skyscrapers. No Dodger games in February.
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I'm not a fan of being at 1,900' for longer than absolutely needed over incredibly congested urban development. That, and the number of helicopters milling about around LA down low.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I'm not a fan of being at 1,900' for longer than absolutely needed over incredibly congested urban development. That, and the number of helicopters milling about around LA down low.
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True, but 1900 is real high for a helicopter. Besides, if a DC-10 can land on 405, why can't a 172 land on 10? :D
 
I personally like being on with flight following and talking to people the whole way. And then being dumped out at 2500 already on the radio with SMO and set up for the 45 left downwind.

The only tricky thing with the mini route is the rapid frequency changes. You'll be on with SoCal, then HHR, then LAX, then SMO in rapid succession... and they won't give you the frequencies when you're switching, so if you don't have them memorized then you'd do well to jot them down ahead of time. But if you haven't flown directly over LAX, I highly recommend it. Kinda cool. Especially at night on a Friday and you see planes stacked up out into the distance.
 
Being on FF ain't all its cracked up to be. . . you still have to have your head on swivel - now we have drones down low - which is why I try to never fly down low anymore unless its for a specific purpose such as landing . ..
 
comanchepilot said:
Being on FF ain't all its cracked up to be. . . you still have to have your head on swivel - now we have drones down low - which is why I try to never fly down low anymore unless its for a specific purpose such as landing . ..
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If I'm going to declare, it's nice to know I'm already talking to someone. Or if I'm unable to declare... it's nice to know somebody saw me crash. LoL
 
comanchepilot said:
Being on FF ain't all its cracked up to be
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Man I could not disagree more especially for an unfamiliar pilot in a very busy and complex airspace that is the LA Basin. For the locals that know the intricacies of the area sure...but for someone trying to make sense of it all I am of the opinion that FF is worth every penny!
 
Shawn said:
Man I could not disagree more especially for an unfamiliar pilot in a very busy and complex airspace that is the LA Basin. For the locals that know the intricacies of the area sure...but for someone trying to make sense of it all I am of the opinion that FF is worth every penny!
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WTH? Flight Following is free. Or did you think FF is an application on tablets?
 
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