So I did a bad thing

[John1244]

But will you still be high functioning that day that you forget to take your medicine? That is the reason the FAA is “unreasonable”.

follow the advice - find a new AME, confess and ask them what it takes.

It doesn’t work that way not by a long shot. You’d have to go weeks before you’d notice any difference. It’s not like high blood pressure medication...

 

[John1244]

Yeah, there is a lot of mental illness out there. It is very hard to see from the outside how bad someone really is, or how far they swing on the worst hours or days.
I guess I could see a fair solution being a restricted medical not allowing any passengers for those with previously diagnosed and controlled mental health issues. Nobody else gets put at risk, but the pilot still has an avenue to be able to fly.

We don’t “swing” on days. Lol. This is part of the problem is complete lack of understanding.

Do you have mental illness? Do you live with someone with mental illness? If not, try not to make assumptions of how they will react to medication changes/skipped doses.
I can assure you that even one skipped dose can sometimes be an order of magnitude more severe than a standard pilot taking a dose of NyQuil. And even that means a grounding for 3 days. And yes, I live with a family member with mental illness.

I can assure you that’s inaccurate. Skipping a dose doesn’t result in magnitude more severe. Pleas. That’s willfully ignorant saying that taking NyQuil is less of a danger.

 

[PaulS]

It doesn’t work that way not by a long shot. You’d have to go weeks before you’d notice any difference. It’s not like high blood pressure medication...

And that's the problem " See, I feel fine with out that stuff, I'm cured...."

 

[bflynn]

It doesn’t work that way not by a long shot. You’d have to go weeks before you’d notice any difference. It’s not like high blood pressure medication...

So your focus is on the word "day"?

 

[Rgbeard]

Might I suggest motorcycles as an alternative?

Edited to comply with RoC. Tread carefully.

 

[Tantalum]

This is a very common list of side effects. A very large fraction of prescription drugs will have the bolded items as possible side-effects.

That said, if one is experiencing these, whether from medications or other reasons, probably best to be grounded.

So true.. even non prescription drugs. Tylenol is "safe" per the FAA and is probably the most ubiquitous pain killer people may take:
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/media/OTCMedicationsforPilots.pdf

But the list of side effects include things like headache, potentially severe dizziness, trouble breathing, unusual tiredness.. etc.

This is where judgment comes in though.. maybe if you woke up with a raging headache and took 2 tylenol and now you are tired and dizzy you should skip the flight that day. Shouldn't need the FAA to come in and tell you that

In fact, a huge amount of gov laws are because people lack reasonable, logical, judgment

 

[Dana]

He wasn’t referring to medication. He was talking about how a basicmed exam includes the option of a doctor being able to shove there finger up a pilots ass.

Actually the Basicmed checklist says, "not including digital examination". So it's basically, "yeah, he's got one." Or perhaps it's "yeah, he is one."

 

[Daleandee]

In fact, a huge amount of gov laws are because people lack reasonable, logical, judgment

I was arguing debating discussing with a gentleman at Church this morning about wearing masks. He wants the Governor to mandate mask wearing and that those that won't should be fined. I kindly disagreed asking if we are now going to clog up the court system with people with "refusal to mask-up" tickets. He said there wouldn't be no court as you would just have to pay the fine. I reminded him that we all get our day in court.

Said that to say ... if people were reasonable, logical, and used proper judgement it would be easier to overcome a lot of life's difficulties. But until we all get over believing that "it's not about you it's all about me" nothing will ever really change. I don't see that happening so we continue to try to legislate morality and common sense ...

 

[Dave Theisen]

I was in Frankfurt, Germany earlier this month where my coworker got cited for not wearing a mask in a designated area. Had to pay 50 Euros cash on the spot.

 

[Morgan3820]

Edited to comply with RoC. Tread carefully.

???

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

Folks taking some medications have no business flying.
Common side effects of Lexapro and Buspar include:

• Dizziness.
• Drowsiness or fatigue.
• Insomnia.
• Headache.
• Nausea.
• Lightheadedness
• Blurred vision

Lol look at the side effects of advil, or hell even oral tums https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-9574/tums-oral/details .

I personally have Autism Spectrum disorder (was diagnosed with Asperger’s), ADD, and depression with a suicide attempt 3 years ago.

Guess what? The Feds trust me with Explosives and heavy ordnance and I’m only 21.

Someone want to explain to me why I can be trusted with a 60mm mortar, but medical approval for a leasure Piper 140 flights is too risky?

The FAA has there system completely ass backwards and it is a disgrace.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

???

I believe ROC means Rules of conduct.

 

[Morgan3820]

I believe ROC means Rules of conduct.

What’s that?

 

[Half Fast]

What’s that?

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/help/RoC/

 

[Pugs]

I was in Frankfurt, Germany earlier this month where my coworker got cited for not wearing a mask in a designated area. Had to pay 50 Euros cash on the spot.

My uncle, while "stationed" in Frankfurt with Boeing for three years got fined for both cutting his grass on Sunday and washing his car on Sunday. America is not Europe and we don't want to be. We're contrarian and self-determinant by our nature to our benefit and our detriment.

 

[Morgan3820]

Lol look at the side effects of advil, or hell even oral tums https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-9574/tums-oral/details .

I personally have Autism Spectrum disorder (was diagnosed with Asperger’s), ADD, and depression with a suicide attempt 3 years ago.

Guess what? The Feds trust me with Explosives and heavy ordnance and I’m only 21.

Someone want to explain to me why I can be trusted with a 60mm mortar, but medical approval for a leasure Piper 140 flights is too risky?

I think that I have an answer to your question but I feel that in answering, I would Be perceived as violating the ROC. So I won’t answer your question.

 

[MuseChaser]

Lol look at the side effects of advil, or hell even oral tums https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-9574/tums-oral/details .

I personally have Autism Spectrum disorder (was diagnosed with Asperger’s), ADD, and depression with a suicide attempt 3 years ago.

Guess what? The Feds trust me with Explosives and heavy ordnance and I’m only 21.

Someone want to explain to me why I can be trusted with a 60mm mortar, but medical approval for a leasure Piper 140 flights is too risky?

...

I would assume the "Feds" trust you to handle those things under direct orders and supervision of commanding officers, or at least that you don't have the freedom to move around and use those explosives, heavy ordnance, and 60mm mortars as you wish. A more apt parallel would be the "Feds" allowing you to own a plane and use it with a CFI in the cockpit (sorry..."flight deck" ) with you, which you can do with or without a medical.
I understand the frustration and anger voiced by two of the posters on this thread who have been denied or are having great difficulty securing a medical, but to be honest the angry hot-headed approach isn't an attractive quality in an applicant for a pilot certificate, medical or otherwise. Being mad usually works against you...even in an actual physical confrontation, much less a battle with bureaucracy.

 

[Half Fast]

I would assume the "Feds" trust you to handle those things under direct orders and supervision of commanding officers, or at least that you don't have the freedom to move around and use those explosives, heavy ordnance, and 60mm mortars as you wish. A more apt parallel would be the "Feds" allowing you to own a plane and use it with a CFI in the cockpit (sorry..."flight deck" ) with you, which you can do with or without a medical.
I understand the frustration and anger voiced by two of the posters on this thread who have been denied or are having great difficulty securing a medical, but to be honest the angry hot-headed approach isn't an attractive quality in an applicant for a pilot certificate, medical or otherwise. Being mad usually works against you...even in an actual physical confrontation, much less a battle with bureaucracy.

I believe that, from @ProjectInfinity1 ’s prior postings, he is a civilian with a Federal license to own special weapons. He thinks it’s ridiculous that he can be entrusted with that license but not with a PPL.

He has a point, but the argument could also be made in the other direction and a case made that he shouldn’t be able to have the weapons.

In any event, there’s no expectation that the FAA and the BATFE talk to each other. Nothing says their rules have to be similar, nonsensical as it sometimes seems.

 

[MuseChaser]

I believe that, from @ProjectInfinity1 ’s prior postings, he is a civilian with a Federal license to own special weapons. He thinks it’s ridiculous that he can be entrusted with that license but not with a PPL.

....

I vaguely recalled something like that, which is why I included "... or at least that you don't have the freedom to move around and use those explosives, heavy ordnance, and 60mm mortars as you wish.... "

Thanks for making it clearer... I remember that thread now. There certainly seems to be evidence to support questioning of all kinds of things.

 

[Half Fast]

I vaguely recalled something like that, which is why I included "... or at least that you don't have the freedom to move around and use those explosives, heavy ordnance, and 60mm mortars as you wish.... "

Thanks for making it clearer... I remember that thread now. There certainly seems to be evidence to support questioning of all kinds of things.

Sometimes it’s best to let lying dogs sleep. Poke too hard at this one, and we’re likely to get a requirement for a medical exam before we can buy a box of shotgun shells.

 

[jstone]

And that's the problem " See, I feel fine with out that stuff, I'm cured...."

Either you can’t read properly or you’re just ignorant, but he didn’t say anything about feeling fine without meds and being cured.

 

[PaulS]

Either you can’t read properly or you’re just ignorant, but he didn’t say anything about feeling fine without meds and being cured.

I read it properly, you are right, he didn't say it anything about people coming off meds but what was mentioned is how it starts, and it's an issue. I'm definitely not ignorant about it, I've seen it many times in people close to me and it becomes a cluster- F, every, single, time. If you don't understand that then maybe you are the ignorant one.

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

I would assume the "Feds" trust you to handle those things under direct orders and supervision of commanding officers, or at least that you don't have the freedom to move around and use those explosives, heavy ordnance, and 60mm mortars as you wish. A more apt parallel would be the "Feds" allowing you to own a plane and use it with a CFI in the cockpit (sorry..."flight deck" ) with you, which you can do with or without a medical.
I understand the frustration and anger voiced by two of the posters on this thread who have been denied or are having great difficulty securing a medical, but to be honest the angry hot-headed approach isn't an attractive quality in an applicant for a pilot certificate, medical or otherwise. Being mad usually works against you...even in an actual physical confrontation, much less a battle with bureaucracy.

I am not a member of the US armed services, nor am I an employee with a federal/local law enforcement agency and I’m not an employee of a government contractor of any kind, I’m just a civilian firearms collector.
I can transport any non High explosive Destructive Devices just like any other firearm in my state, and I have to send in a written form to ATF 4-6 weeks before I plan to take it out of state.

As for a hot headed approach, you are correct, personally I’m not annoyed with bureaucracy, I’m annoyed of being stonewalled, and I 100% acknowledge venting such frustrations to a FAA examiner who doesn’t have any discretion and has to stick within the confines of the relevant regulations isn’t appropriate as simply it is not their fault.
Maybe, though deep down, I hope the absurdity of it all could be enough of a attention getter to try for an exemption from a regional flight surgeon after a few more years put between my suicide attempt (3 years ago).

I believe that, from @ProjectInfinity1 ’s prior postings, he is a civilian with a Federal license to own special weapons. He thinks it’s ridiculous that he can be entrusted with that license but not with a PPL.

He has a point, but the argument could also be made in the other direction and a case made that he shouldn’t be able to have the weapons.

In any event, there’s no expectation that the FAA and the BATFE talk to each other. Nothing says their rules have to be similar, nonsensical as it sometimes seems.

1. You’re correct.
2. Lol both answers could be correct depending on one’s point of view! but I’m certainly not advocating the latter of the two!!!
3. This is also true on both accounts, however the silliness is astounding when one says “heavy weaponry is fine, but we feel you’re too much a danger to it’s to allow you to get a class 3 medical”.

(The following sentences aren’t directed at you Half Fast, these are just rhetorical, wanted to make that clear as they could be perceived as otherwise condescending).

My argument being if I had nefarious intention or serious imminent wish of self harm, why would I be here in the first place griping about medical regulations? And also if I was inattentive to the point of carelessness/negligence, how have I not have either accidentally blown my self up or shot myself yet?

And for the love of god, please no one call the fbi or any other law enforcement agency on me again!

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

Sometimes it’s best to let lying dogs sleep. Poke too hard at this one, and we’re likely to get a requirement for a medical exam before we can buy a box of shotgun shells.

That is... equally frustrating that I could see that actually happening

 

[MuseChaser]

...if I had nefarious intention or serious imminent wish of self harm, why would I be here in the first place griping about medical regulations? And also if I was inattentive to the point of carelessness/negligence, how have I not have either accidentally blown my self up or shot myself yet?

Without sounding glib hopefully, but perhaps you are an unusual case, and past data may indicate that the majority of people with your previous diagnoses and suicidal ideations and attempts are, indeed, a much greater risk to themselves and others in an airplane or with heavy ordnance in their posession? I don't know you, and I don't what past data is, either.. just thinking out loud. It's great that you feel healthy, in control, safe, and that you've come so far from where you were at one time. Given the ongoing push for greater and greater restrictions on citizens' right to bear arms especially of certain types (of arms, not of citizens), it is surprising to me that you were able to get licensed for the types of weapons you've been collecting given your history, but as long as you've done it legally (and I have NO reason to suspect you haven't), I'm glad you've found something enjoy, and I wish you success in your journey going forward to gain access to the sky as a pilot. To be honest, and I always am (which costs me the odd friendship every now and then, sadly), even as a staunch 2nd amendment supporter personally, the idea of a 21 year old private citizen with your mental health background collecting usable working heavy ordnance and other serious military grade weapons is a bit unsettling. I don't know you, and if I did, I may VERY well not have that feeling. Just going from some posts typed on the internet. Not trying to be offensive or put you down in any way.

 

[bflynn]

Someone want to explain to me why I can be trusted with a 60mm mortar, but medical approval for a leisure Piper 140 flights is too risky?

the FAA has a different standard than the Army? Just postulating.

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

Without sounding glib hopefully, but perhaps you are an unusual case, and past data may indicate that the majority of people with your previous diagnoses and suicidal ideations and attempts are, indeed, a much greater risk to themselves and others in an airplane or with heavy ordnance in their possession? I don't know you, and I don't what past data is, either.. just thinking out loud. It's great that you feel healthy, in control, safe, and that you've come so far from where you were at one time. Given the ongoing push for greater and greater restrictions on citizens' right to bear arms especially of certain types (of arms, not of citizens), it is surprising to me that you were able to get licensed for the types of weapons you've been collecting given your history, but as long as you've done it legally (and I have NO reason to suspect you haven't), I'm glad you've found something enjoy, and I wish you success in your journey going forward to gain access to the sky as a pilot. To be honest, and I always am (which costs me the odd friendship every now and then, sadly), even as a staunch 2nd amendment supporter personally, the idea of a 21 year old private citizen with your mental health background collecting usable working heavy ordnance and other serious military grade weapons is a bit unsettling. I don't know you, and if I did, I may VERY well not have that feeling. Just going from some posts typed on the internet. Not trying to be offensive or put you down in any way.

"The idea of a 21 year old private citizen with your mental health background collecting usable working heavy ordnance and other serious military grade weapons is a bit unsettling. I don't know you, and if I did, I may VERY well not have that feeling. Just going from some posts typed on the internet. Not trying to be offensive or put you down in any way.".

It's good you feel unsettled, you know why? It's means your judgement/intuition is functioning as it should. Any reasonable person, looking from the outside in would express a similar discomfort, (myself included if I was seeing this written by someone else). The sheer amount of red flags I am putting up is off the charts, and I'd be delusional to argue otherwise.

However when you delve deeper, from someone on the "outside" looking "in", logically, should we be more concerned about the people who are willing to talk about their struggles openly, or is the greater danger from people suffering in silence and end up bottling it up until they can't take it anymore.

"Not trying to be offensive or put you down in any way." No offense taken! It's a perfectly reasonable response/series of questions to ask.

And once someone gets to know me, I'm a pretty mellow guy! If you're ever in the RI area and on the off chance you'd want to talk guns, aviation or history, lmk

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

the FAA has a different standard than the Army? Just postulating.

I am not .mil nor am I LE or work for a government contractor in any sort. Just a regular civilian.

 

[bflynn]

Just a regular civilian that the govt trusts with 60mm mortars?

There is nothing regular about that.

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

Just a regular civilian that the govt trusts with 60mm mortars?

There is nothing regular about that.

For obvious reasons I whited out a lot of identifying information such as the S/N, my City, address, last name, ect.

(Quick aside) Again for the love of god I wasn't lying, if someone feels uncomfortable enough to want to call the police, I already had someone call the FBI on me from this forum a year or two ago which means they already checked me out, I have no desire to hurt myself or others! Please don't call the feds on me again, fun party story two years on, but definitely don't want to deal with it again.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

We don’t “swing” on days. Lol. This is part of the problem is complete lack of understanding.

I can assure you that’s inaccurate. Skipping a dose doesn’t result in magnitude more severe. Pleas. That’s willfully ignorant saying that taking NyQuil is less of a danger.

Double check your post, because I think we both agree that NyQuil is both less of a danger than SSRI or SNRI medicines and also still a significant danger for flying. If you have been on SSRIs, then either you were lucky and had no effects, or may not have been in the right kind to understand the effects.

If it is inaccurate, then how come the person I live with swings and and forth in days when medication is missed? So you don’t have major changes when you miss your specific mental health medicine, but others do. What medicine are you on? What dose? What specific issues do you have? They are all different and specific to a specific person. Since everyone is so different, there are a wide range of effects, precautions, side effects, dangers.

Some people seems to think that everyone is the same. I think that a limited medical is the best option to be fair - a shorter review process and then a limitation to solo flights. Or the longer review for a fully issued medical.

 

[jstone]

Double check your post, because I think we both agree that NyQuil is both less of a danger than SSRI or SNRI medicines and also still a significant danger for flying. If you have been on SSRIs, then either you were lucky and had no effects, or may not have been in the right kind to understand the effects.

If it is inaccurate, then how come the person I live with swings and and forth in days when medication is missed? So you don’t have major changes when you miss your specific mental health medicine, but others do. What medicine are you on? What dose? What specific issues do you have? They are all different and specific to a specific person. Since everyone is so different, there are a wide range of effects, precautions, side effects, dangers.

Some people seems to think that everyone is the same. I think that a limited medical is the best option to be fair - a shorter review process and then a limitation to solo flights. Or the longer review for a fully issued medical.

Sounds like the person you live with has bipolar disorder which is completely different than depression.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Sounds like the person you live with has bipolar disorder which is completely different than depression.

Nope, but thanks for guessing. I prefer not to disclose someone else's diagnosis, but not bipolar. Swings in mood don't have to be "bipolar bad" to still be a cause for concern in terms of flying. Heck, we are all supposed to go over the IMSAFE checklist and plenty of those issues are "relatively minor", yet still cause for concern and self grounding. You got your salary cut, might not want to fly that day. You had a bad night of sleep, might not want to fly that day.

 

[Brad Z]

View attachment 92026

For obvious reasons I whited out a lot of identifying information such as the S/N, my City, address, last name, ect.

(Quick aside) Again for the love of god I wasn't lying, if someone feels uncomfortable enough to want to call the police, I already had someone call the FBI on me from this forum a year or two ago which means they already checked me out, I have no desire to hurt myself or others! Please don't call the feds on me again, fun party story two years on, but definitely don't want to deal with it again.

Are you required to take a medical/mental health screening in order to register the destructive device?

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Are you required to take a medical/mental health screening in order to register the destructive device?

These normally have to be approved by the local chief LEO, which is normally the Sheriff. I don’t think they do a health screening. Usually a criminal background check if any court ordered mental health treatment.


In terms of his original thread on that, the FAA medical process is much stricter.

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

Heck, we are all supposed to go over the IMSAFE checklist and plenty of those issues are "relatively minor", yet still cause for concern and self grounding. You got your salary cut, might not want to fly that day. You had a bad night of sleep, might not want to fly that day.

While true, I’d speculate that a non trivial minority of bush pilots in AK don’t follow that guidance.

Our GA accident rate would be significantly lower if common sense was universal.

 

[Brad Z]

These normally have to be approved by the local chief LEO, which is normally the Sheriff. I don’t think they do a health screening. Usually a criminal background check if any court ordered mental health treatment.


In terms of his original thread on that, the FAA medical process is much stricter.

No doubt. But it's a bit disingenuous to say on one hand feds allow him to play with bombs while disallowing him to fly a Cessna 150. The feds allowing him to play with bombs are likely not aware of his history of depression or suicide. At least he didn't mention disclosing it as part of the process,

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

Are you required to take a medical/mental health screening in order to register the destructive device?

No, the only bearing mental health has on it (Federally speaking) is if one was involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric facility, one was declared not guilty by reason of insanity in court, or if you have an addiction problem with drugs or alcohol.

 

[Brad Z]

No, the only bearing mental health has on it (Federally speaking) is if one was involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric facility, one was declared not guilty by reason of insanity in court, or if you have an addiction problem with drugs or alcohol.

Did you voluntarily disclose your mental health history?

 

[ProjectInfinity1]

No doubt. But it's a bit disingenuous to say on one hand feds allow him to play with bombs while disallowing him to fly a Cessna 150. The feds allowing him to play with bombs are likely not aware of his history of depression or suicide. At least he didn't mention disclosing it as part of the process,

Partially correct, they don’t have much of an option otherwise as it’s a shall issue thing. Saying “trust” was a inappropriate way to express it in hindsight as one could infer it meant they had an option to deny, even with all other legal requirements met.

However they most certainly were made aware (not the ATF) but the FBI as I had to spend an hour and a half explaining myself because someone from this forum sent an Anonymous tip back in May (can’t remember if it was 2018 or 2019, as this entire year has been all consuming with covid and the protests).