Slips and Indicated Air Speed

MauleSkinner said:
I dunno...kinda tough to slip from left base to Into the wind when it’s going to be a right crosswind on final.
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You can do it. Just start the turn a little later and stop with the nose still pointed off to the right. You can crab in a slip, too. Just point the nose farther into the wind.
 
Dan Thomas said:
You can do it. Just start the turn a little later and stop with the nose still pointed off to the right. You can crab in a slip, too. Just point the nose farther into the wind.
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So you can do a right wing low slip (into the wind, per the post I was responding to) in a left turn?
 
MauleSkinner said:
So you can do a right wing low slip (into the wind, per the post I was responding to) in a left turn?
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That would be a skid, not a slip. Deadly. Left wing low left turn slip will still get you down in a right crosswind. You just have to start turning later, as the wind will reduce the turn radius and the slip will pull you more to the left, too.
 
I try not to slip right wing low in the Cub. It blows my hat off if the doors are open. It can also blow out the left side sliding window on planes so equipped.

I don’t trust airspeed and pay it much attention while slipping. I will typically slip left wing low even in a right crosswind. I just point the nose further right and use more aileron. It take it out and then begin flare and transition into right wing into the wind in one maneuver. Seems most Cub folks slip left most the time. A good friend retired USAF IP and FedEx Captain CFI who also owns a Clipped Wing Cub got a little uncomfortable in a right slip.

A J-3and Stearman are two of the best skipping airplanes there are. Pitts can get an exhilarating rate of decent. Slipping in to roll wings level as you touchdown is part of the fun of flying them.

I’ve been know for slip through a 180° downwind to final turn in a Pitts, Skybolt and Starduster. Due to force of habit from learning in and 1000 hours in a Cub, I almost always slip left. Slipping them on final isn’t uncommon just to be able to see your tracking g down the runway. Kick it out and land using peripheral vision...because you won’t see straight ahead one you straighten it out and flare.


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Dan Thomas said:
That would be a skid, not a slip. Deadly. Left wing low left turn slip will still get you down in a right crosswind. You just have to start turning later, as the wind will reduce the turn radius and the slip will pull you more to the left, too.
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Apparently you didn’t read the post that I was responding to...or at least aren’t reading it the same way I am.
 
N3368K said:
I try not to slip right wing low in the Cub. It blows my hat off if the doors are open. It can also blow out the left side sliding window on planes so equipped.

I don’t trust airspeed and pay it much attention while slipping. I will typically slip left wing low even in a right crosswind. I just point the nose further right and use more aileron. It take it out and then begin flare and transition into right wing into the wind in one maneuver. Seems most Cub folks slip left most the time. A good friend retired USAF IP and FedEx Captain CFI who also owns a Clipped Wing Cub got a little uncomfortable in a right slip.

A J-3and Stearman are two of the best skipping airplanes there are. Pitts can get an exhilarating rate of decent. Slipping in to roll wings level as you touchdown is part of the fun of flying them.

I’ve been know for slip through a 180° downwind to final turn in a Pitts, Skybolt and Starduster. Due to force of habit from learning in and 1000 hours in a Cub, I almost always slip left. Slipping them on final isn’t uncommon just to be able to see your tracking g down the runway. Kick it out and land using peripheral vision...because you won’t see straight ahead one you straighten it out and flare.


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PA-12 is another airplane that’s wonderful to slip...full rudder and 60+ degrees of bank results in a steep spiral down over the field with a huge descent rate. Plus you can see the tail end of the glider tow rope you’re pulling. ;)
 
N3368K said:
I try not to slip right wing low in the Cub. It blows my hat off if the doors are open. It can also blow out the left side sliding window on planes so equipped.

I don’t trust airspeed and pay it much attention while slipping. I will typically slip left wing low even in a right crosswind. I just point the nose further right and use more aileron. It take it out and then begin flare and transition into right wing into the wind in one maneuver. Seems most Cub folks slip left most the time. A good friend retired USAF IP and FedEx Captain CFI who also owns a Clipped Wing Cub got a little uncomfortable in a right slip.

A J-3and Stearman are two of the best skipping airplanes there are. Pitts can get an exhilarating rate of decent. Slipping in to roll wings level as you touchdown is part of the fun of flying them.

I’ve been know for slip through a 180° downwind to final turn in a Pitts, Skybolt and Starduster. Due to force of habit from learning in and 1000 hours in a Cub, I almost always slip left. Slipping them on final isn’t uncommon just to be able to see your tracking g down the runway. Kick it out and land using peripheral vision...because you won’t see straight ahead one you straighten it out and flare.
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Ditto all that. I don't have the Pitts anymore, but I almost miss doing this more than acro haha. Without leveling out, I would have hit the ground here 15 seconds after entering the slip from 1,000' AGL, coming down 4,000 FPM. :D

 
Surprised you sold the Pitts. I miss flying one too.


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MauleSkinner said:
So you can do a right wing low slip (into the wind, per the post I was responding to) in a left turn?
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Slip: Right stick, left rudder. To turn right, add more stick or less rudder. To turn left, more rudder or less stick. That's how you stay lined up with the runway on final instead of randomly turning in circles.
 
In addition to using a slip to get down, one can slip the airplane to slow down. I used to come whistleing in to the runway at 140mph in a Super Decathlon, and on about a half mile final just cross control (very aggressive slip, but not so much bank). Could slow from 140 to 75 in a quarter mile.
 
I am wondering about airspeed indications. The L8 has only a static port on the left side. Logic says slipping to the left will result in a decrease in indicated airspeed as the static pressure increases. But does it? I think I will award my f/o an f/e ticket and have her record airspeed indications in various slips. Interesting, very interesting.
 
Arnold said:
Logic says slipping to the left will result in a decrease in indicated airspeed as the static pressure increases. But does it?
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That's how it works in a Cessna 120 with a static port on the left. You can push the IAS purd near to zero.
 
If you have to go by airspeed while you’re slipping, I contend that you aren’t yet familiar enough with your airplane that you should be slipping. You should be established on your approach speed when you drop the wing and kick rudder. Flame suit on and ready.
 
I've been known to do a slipping left turn from base to final to lose altitude, then transition to a right side slip to correct for crosswind, when close to flare. It's a fun maneuver, and gets the job done at a short field.
 
As to airspeed, I've no clue what it's doing. I'm too busy flying the airplane to worry about airspeed. But, my guess, (based upon how it's behaving) is that the airspeed is pretty close to what it needs to be.
 
N3368K said:
I try not to slip right wing low in the Cub. It blows my hat off if the doors are open. It can also blow out the left side sliding window on planes so equipped.

I don’t trust airspeed and pay it much attention while slipping. I will typically slip left wing low even in a right crosswind. I just point the nose further right and use more aileron. It take it out and then begin flare and transition into right wing into the wind in one maneuver. Seems most Cub folks slip left most the time. A good friend retired USAF IP and FedEx Captain CFI who also owns a Clipped Wing Cub got a little uncomfortable in a right slip.

A J-3and Stearman are two of the best skipping airplanes there are. Pitts can get an exhilarating rate of decent. Slipping in to roll wings level as you touchdown is part of the fun of flying them.

I’ve been know for slip through a 180° downwind to final turn in a Pitts, Skybolt and Starduster. Due to force of habit from learning in and 1000 hours in a Cub, I almost always slip left. Slipping them on final isn’t uncommon just to be able to see your tracking g down the runway. Kick it out and land using peripheral vision...because you won’t see straight ahead one you straighten it out and flare.


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Slipped a Champ the other day for the first time during TW training, it was a hoot.
 
Huckster79 said:
It comes to knowing your machine and being able to “be one with it”... I don’t mean this tersely but if you don’t just instinctively know when your bird is happy or when you are about to make her do ugly things... without looking at so much as the ball... ya gotta go fly your bird more...
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Leave a margin of error. Always. The difference between happy and ugly is a very narrow area, or as Bob Hoover may call it, the Feathered Edge. I prefer a happy bird. So yes, when I utilize a slip to land it is most definitely not at the edge of the operating envelope. I still remember a checkout in a 172 the cfi pulled the throttle near abeam the numbers on downwind. I went into a full slip left turn making straight for the runway. The cfi didn’t like my choice and was complaining about full slips in a 172 during the descent. Not sure what he expected but I have a 5000+’ runway I’m gonna make my way there. Worked out beautifully for a T&G.
 
I have to throw this in.

I did the private checkride in my little taildragger with an old fellow that was known for yelling at people.

When he asked me to slip, I laid it over into what I thought was a decent slip. He YELLED “keep that nose down.”

I’ve slipped it at least a hundred times, probably hundreds of times, since then and never once have I not heard what he yelled ring in my ear.
 
MBDiagMan said:
If you have to go by airspeed while you’re slipping, I contend that you aren’t yet familiar enough with your airplane that you should be slipping. You should be established on your approach speed when you drop the wing and kick rudder. Flame suit on and ready.
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I contend that mo' data is mo' better.
 
In most airplanes, slipping is really not a dicey situation when it comes to getting the airspeed too slow. Most airplanes will not stall/spin out of a full deflection slip in the typical power off slip to land situation. I say most, not all. You can creep the stick yoke back to full aft elevator with the rudder to the floor and most planes will just wallow around without breaking. Just don't neutralize the ailerons with the rudder deflected. Know our airplane. See what it does at altitude. Any CFI who admonishes someone for slipping is probably scared of them.
 
So did anybody try slips in both directions and observe the IAS?
 
jsstevens said:
So did anybody try slips in both directions and observe the IAS?
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In a Cessna 120 with the static port by the pilots left knee, a hard slip to the left can drive the IAS to purd near zero. Slip to the right and the airspeed does not go down, but I wouldn't try to claim that it is accurate.
 
RoscoeT said:
In most airplanes, slipping is really not a dicey situation when it comes to getting the airspeed too slow. Most airplanes will not stall/spin out of a full deflection slip in the typical power off slip to land situation. I say most, not all. You can creep the stick yoke back to full aft elevator with the rudder to the floor and most planes will just wallow around without breaking. Just don't neutralize the ailerons with the rudder deflected. Know our airplane. See what it does at altitude. Any CFI who admonishes someone for slipping is probably scared of them.
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As I move forward in my aviation adventure I want to learn as much as possible. When you say "most airplanes" you lead me to believe you have flown quite a few. How many different types would you say you've flown? Is there one that sticks out as particularly docile? Perhaps there is one that is particularly sensitive? Have you performed slipping stalls in all of them, that would be cool. I ask only because this board seems to have many low time pilots with little experience. Having someone with your knowledge here is very helpful.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
In a Cessna 120 with the static port by the pilots left knee, a hard slip to the left can drive the IAS to purd near zero. Slip to the right and the airspeed does not go down, but I wouldn't try to claim that it is accurate.
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Which is what I would expect, but I figured an ounce of empirical data is worth a metric ton of internet speculation. And I currently don't have access to an airplane so I couldn't try it myself.

And by the pilot's left knee is just about where the static port is on a C-172 which was the original poster's steed of choice...
 
jsstevens said:
Which is what I would expect, but I figured an ounce of empirical data is worth a metric ton of internet speculation. And I currently don't have access to an airplane so I couldn't try it myself.

And by the pilot's left knee is just about where the static port is on a C-172 which was the original poster's steed of choice...
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I will post my results for single static port on the left side of fuselage.
 
Arnold said:
I contend that mo' data is mo' better.
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What you say sounds good on the surface, but in practice, the pitot is at a varying angle, so the error of that data is in constant change while slipping, and when slipping I think it’s more important to concentrate on the slip. Just keep the nose down!
 
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