Sleeping... Pilots?

I can see it now. The government that gave you ELTs that don't work will now mandate a "snooze button" feature that will induce you to punch a button on the panel every 10 minutes to acknowledge that you're not asleep. Coming soon to a TSO near you!!

Trains have had a "Dead Man" switch for a long time. Used to be a pedal you had to hold down, but guys would use the flagging kit wedging it under the dash to hold it. The last ones I dealt with had a button on the dash and a light on the panel overhead that would flash in random intervals with increasing frequency until reset by hitting the button. When the light went solid on, the brakes would go into emergency, and there went your job.
 
Nothing like getting "freight trained" out of a job, huh?
 
Nothing wrong with a little power nap here and there. Our regs even direct "strategic uses of short periods of rest" for no more than two crew members on the flight deck in non critical phases of flight.
Unfortunately, two crew members on the flight deck of the Hawkeye is min ... and max ... that's all she wrote.

US Navy AWACS ... doing with twin turboprop and a crew of 5 what it takes the Air Force 4 jet engines and a crew of 18 ... :dunno: :D
 
Unfortunately, two crew members on the flight deck of the Hawkeye is min ... and max ... that's all she wrote.

US Navy AWACS ... doing with twin turboprop and a crew of 5 what it takes the Air Force 4 jet engines and a crew of 18 ... :dunno: :D
:rofl:
 
Part 121 says that a Pilot cannot be at their duty station more than 8 hours in a duty period. Any flight over 8 hours requires one relief pilot and anything over 12 requires 2 relief pilots. I suppose anything over 16, which is rare, would require 5, but I haven't heard anything about that.

On the AA ORD to Dehli run there were still only 4 crew on the 777. I don't recall seeing a 5th and that flight is right at the 16 hour mark.
 
On the AA ORD to Dehli run there were still only 4 crew on the 777. I don't recall seeing a 5th and that flight is right at the 16 hour mark.

I would bet that it wasn't "SCHEDULED" for MORE than 16 hours then.
 
So by the looks of things, USAF regs are more liberal in regards to duty day, but more restrictive about crew rest (we need 12 hrs.)
That's always been true in the multicrew USAF, but not in the fighter world -- 12 hours duty/8 hours flying max per day, period, end of story. We had to get official waivers in writing from HQ USAF for the Libya raid and the practice flights that preceded it.

However, at least through the late 70's, the US Navy had no crew rest rules -- CO's responsibility, and that was it. You could come to work at your regular squardon job (like Airframes Branch Officer) at 0700, work all day, and then fly a night low-level/bombing hop getting back at 2230 -- after which you were expected to be back at work at 0700 the next morning. Our squadron CO set an "8-hours of sleep" rule for the night before you were flying, but no real limit on duty day after that. Aboard ship at sea, it wasn't even a consideration -- you flew when you had to, slept when you could, stood watches when scheduled, and did your regular squadron job in whatever time wasn't already being used.

The Air Guard was technically bound to the USAF rules, but the only times that counted were Guard duty times. If you went to your day job at 0800 and showed up at the Guard unit at 1700 for your night's flying, the 12-hour duty clock started then, not at 0800, and if you flew 'til midnight, that was just fine, although you then couldn't report back at the Guard unit until 1200 the next day. Further, if you got off Guard duty at midnight, and went to your day job at 0800, you were still good to go with the Guard as long as you didn't report there until after 1200, even though you really had only 8 hours off that night.

When I got into the active duty Air Force, it felt like a country club -- min of 12 hours off duty before a day with flying, max of twelve hours from reporting time that day to last landing. And they had an official beer locker in the squadron for after flying, too! You sure didn't see that on the big gray boat.
 
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This all reminds me of an accident report I read years ago about a doc, in NC IIRC, that used to depart from one end of the state at night and fly to the other side pretty routinely. In the report, he set an alarm clock to wake him in time to land. They found the plane permanently implanted in cumulogranite and the investigation surmised that he had an unplanned tailwind that took him into the mountains before the alarm went off--sweet dreams for him now.

Was always fascinated that someone would have the gall to do that. Heck, I never had an autopilot I would rely on to that degree. Wonder if his alarm had a 'snooze' feature.

Best,

Dave
 
When I got into the active duty Air Force, it felt like a country club -- min of 12 hours off duty before a day with flying, max of twelve hours from reporting time that day to last landing. And they had an official beer locker in the squadron for after flying, too! You sure didn't see that on the big gray boat.
Thank you pointing out another reason why the USAF is the superior service! ;);)

BTW I have had the 12 hour crew rest in AF waived. There were several times that mission dictated the need for cutting crew rest short. But it was an exception and not the rule.
 
Here's one for ya -- http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20030819X01352&ntsbno=NYC03FA176&akey=1

What they don't mention in this narrative is that the pilot worked an overnight shift at the ER, left there, drove to the airport, got in his plane, and took off for JST in solid IMC. Nobody knows for sure when he last slept, but it could not have been later than the previous afternoon with the accident occurring at 0740 local the next morning. Not only did he have a long duty "day" leading up to the accident (which occurred more 12 hours after reporting to work the previous evening), but he was 180 degrees out of phase with a normal circadian cycle. No co-pilot, either, and IIRC, no autopilot.
 
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