Skydive Pilot Bails at KFES (Festus, MO)

[timwinters]

I always wondered why skydive pilots wear parachutes.

http://fox2now.com/2014/06/14/skydivers-lucky-to-be-alive/

Some of the typical sensationalistic reporting but what else is new.

 

[marcoseddi]

Cool story I never knew pilots of sky diving planes had to wear parachutes, is thst the reason why if jumpers hit the plane?


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[Dav8or]

It is normal procedure for pilots of skydiving planes to also wear a parachute in case of such an emergency.

I think it's more likely because of the pitch angle they use to dive to the ground as fast as possible. FAR 91.307 (c) says-

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

requires a parachute to be worn. I suspect they regularly exceed the 30 degrees. The fact that they can jump out when the plane breaks down is just a side benefit I'm guessing.

 

[weilke]

Some open door stcs require a chute. Some dont. Some aircraft allow open door operation without stcs or modifications in those cases whatever the AFM or AFM supplement says applies.

 

[jesse]

Sometimes required by the stc for the open door, sometimes not. Either way I think it's pretty stupid not to wear one.

 

[Aileron]

Parachute is required because of the jumpers and the potential for their gear to malfunction and render the airplane unflyable.

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[timwinters]

Some open door stcs require a chute. Some dont. Some aircraft allow open door operation without stcs or modifications in those cases whatever the AFM or AFM supplement says applies.

My 182 can be flown without the doors. Always wanted to do it...haven't yet.

 

[flhrci]

The 182 at the dropzone I fly out of has an STC that requires pilot parachute IF the door is to be opened in flight.

The 206 we fly does not require one, although not a bad idea. It was certificated with the cargo door and the pilot sits far enough away from it and cannot close the roll up door any way.

But me personally, I want a parachute on when flying jumpers as there is more potential for a problem.

David

 

[EdFred]

I think it's more likely because of the pitch angle they use to dive to the ground as fast as possible. FAR 91.307 (c) says-

requires a parachute to be worn. I suspect they regularly exceed the 30 degrees. The fact that they can jump out when the plane breaks down is just a side benefit I'm guessing.

Only if they are bringing someone back down with them.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

 

[timwinters]

I can't believe that none of the Cirrus bashers over in the other thread didn't take the opportunity to berate this pilot for pulling the chute and not having adequate skills to safely land that crippled bird without his crutch!

 

[Henning]

Cool story I never knew pilots of sky diving planes had to wear parachutes, is thst the reason why if jumpers hit the plane?


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You have to wear a chute hauling jumpers. If there is an accidental deployment and a chute goes out the plane, it's pretty much unrecoverable. At least that's what they told me when I hauled jumpers.

 

[LoneAspen]

So what happens if something happens in the air that causes the pilot to bail, and then the plane ends up killing a bunch of people on the ground?

Does the concept of "the captain goes down with the ship" apply to pilots, assuming they'd have enough control over the plane to try and crash it somewhere where there's no people?

 

[jesse]

So what happens if something happens in the air that causes the pilot to bail, and then the plane ends up killing a bunch of people on the ground?

Does the concept of "the captain goes down with the ship" apply to pilots, assuming they'd have enough control over the plane to try and crash it somewhere where there's no people?

Incredibly unlikely in my neck of the woods. I wouldn't do it over a city unless I had no control.

No point in going down with a ship you can't control in the first place.

 

[timwinters]

Not likely where this kid jumped out either. That's why he flew it over to the Illinois side of the river. If you look at it on google earth you'll see that across from Festus there are farm fields, more farm fields, and beyond that, you guessed it, farm fields.

Not very likely that anything but crops will be damaged.

Take a look at the thumbnail (too big to put in the body of the text).

 

[ron22]

I think the pilot did the right thing. Point the plane in a safe place and then jump.

Like Tim said not much for the plane to hit where it went down. Although I bet the farmer is not to happy about his field.

 

[weilke]

Although I bet the farmer is not to happy about his field.

With crop prices what they are this year, he would gladly burn down the whole field if he could get insurance to pay for it.

(the problem with some low-rent skydiving operations is that they are either uninsured or insured at very low limits)

 

[timwinters]

Although I bet the farmer is not to happy about his field.

From the photos I've seen, it was a perpendicular hit. No skid marks, just a pile. Not much damage to the field.

Of course, if the plane is 1/4 mile off of the road, then the extraction vehicles are going to screw things up royally when they remove it.

This is where the term "bought the farm" came from. At least that's what I've heard...don't know if that's accurate, I'll have to google it. Disputed. Urban dictionary says yes, snopes says no.

 

[Tristar]

Yea we have to wear one. It's mainly thought just in case something gets wrapped around the tail which would only happen in a malfunction or someone doing something really stupid. I don't like thinking about having to jump out of the plane though. As a pilot, you're trained to fly it to the ground but yea if my tail is no longer usable at least I have the parachute. The one they give the pilots is a round parachute, not the pretty ones they give everyone else. It's a hard opening and I'm told the landing isn't quite as pretty but it's a lot better than being in an uncontrollable airplane.

Oh, and I don't know what you guys are doing but I never need to put the plane in a pitch of more than 30 degrees up or down. If I go all the way to 10k AGL, I don't beat the jumpers to the ground anyways.

 

[geneseib]

I always wondered why skydive pilots wear parachutes.

http://fox2now.com/2014/06/14/skydivers-lucky-to-be-alive/

Some of the typical sensationalistic reporting but what else is new.

I'm having a hard time imagining how a diver can damage a plane that much without have a lot of damage done to himself.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

So what happens if something happens in the air that causes the pilot to bail, and then the plane ends up killing a bunch of people on the ground?

Given that, unless you have a 737, it's really hard to "kill a bunch of people on the ground" even if you are willing to die in the process (The typical suicide pilot using a G.A aircraft manages about .3 victims per attack). And considering the types of areas where you find the typical jump operation it would be nearly impossible to kill a "bunch" of people accidentally.

 

[ClimbnSink]

So what happens if something happens in the air that causes the pilot to bail, and then the plane ends up killing a bunch of people on the ground?

And if any regular ole GA plane breaks for any regular ole reason and kills a bunch of people on the ground...
Why do people go there...

 

[barelyawake]

This is where the term "bought the farm" came from. At least that's what I've heard...don't know if that's accurate, I'll have to google it. Disputed. Urban dictionary says yes, snopes says no.

From my long ago 11B1P days, "bought the farm" is derived from WWII farm boys dying with their designated parent beneficiaries paying off the farm mortgage with the GI life insurance proceeds.

At least that's what they told us when we were filling out the forms . . .

YMMV

 

[weilke]

I'm having a hard time imagining how a diver can damage a plane that much without have a lot of damage done to himself.

Skydivers have torn horizontal stabs off aircraft and all they had was a couple of torn lines and flapping cells. The damage is often from premature deployment with the chute doing most of the damage.

 

[Unregistered]

Tristar,

I take it you didn't work for a turbine DZ nor a large DZ.

The serious places will fire your arse if you don't turn good times and a turbine is well over 30 down, we were doing near a mile a minute down. Even a 182/206 should beat at least half the jumpers down, a 182 with speed brakes even more so.

 

[tinerj]

My Ercoupe partner Tom was in the air after flying Young Eagles and was on 122.8 as it occurred. Here is how it sounded from the air:

I flew back to Sparta by way of Washington, and while tuned to 122.8, I heard the entire incident involving a jump plane pilot who had to ditch a 182 because a parachute got wrapped around his tail and he lost almost all of his ability to raise or lower the nose.

The pilot's name was Shawn (or Sean) and all jumpers were out. He was reporting mechanical difficulty with the elevator. He couldn't move the elevator but only a very small amount, and was planning for a flat landing at Festus. He descended by cutting the power and giving it as much forward pitch that he could and slowly descended from 9,000 to about 6,000 when another aircraft launched from Festus, met him and reported that there was a parachute wrapped around his tail, and I'm pretty sure he said the tail was bent.

There was then a discussion about his ability to land safely. The concern was that he would not be able to flare, and the landing would be flat, and there would be no way to pull up to go around if it looked bad. Finally, someone on the ground asked him if he had a parachute on board, and he said that there was one, but he had never jumped before. The discussion turned from landing to jumping and ditching. Ultimately, that's what he decided to do. But now a new problem, he had descended too far for a safe jump, so he had to get some more altitude, at least 2,000 ft. He slowly got above 2,000 Ft at a rate of 50 - 75 FPM. Then he flew over to Illinois where there was less of a chance of the plane hitting anything or anybody. The last transmission he made, was, "I'm going now." A second of silence, then a voice from the ground, "Don't forget to pull the power!" Probably too late, but apparently he did, because the pilot
parachuted safely and the plane crashed harmlessly in a field not too far away.

 

[jesse]

Tristar,

I take it you didn't work for a turbine DZ nor a large DZ.

The serious places will fire your arse if you don't turn good times and a turbine is well over 30 down, we were doing near a mile a minute down. Even a 182/206 should beat at least half the jumpers down, a 182 with speed brakes even more so.

Not going to beat divers to the ground in the 182 from 10k unless you do something incredibly stupid. 3k is a different story.

 

[Concorde]

My Ercoupe partner Tom was in the air after flying Young Eagles and was on 122.8 as it occurred. Here is how it sounded from the air:

I flew back to Sparta by way of Washington, and while tuned to 122.8, I heard the entire incident involving a jump plane pilot who had to ditch a 182 because a parachute got wrapped around his tail and he lost almost all of his ability to raise or lower the nose.

The pilot's name was Shawn (or Sean) and all jumpers were out. He was reporting mechanical difficulty with the elevator. He couldn't move the elevator but only a very small amount, and was planning for a flat landing at Festus. He descended by cutting the power and giving it as much forward pitch that he could and slowly descended from 9,000 to about 6,000 when another aircraft launched from Festus, met him and reported that there was a parachute wrapped around his tail, and I'm pretty sure he said the tail was bent.

There was then a discussion about his ability to land safely. The concern was that he would not be able to flare, and the landing would be flat, and there would be no way to pull up to go around if it looked bad. Finally, someone on the ground asked him if he had a parachute on board, and he said that there was one, but he had never jumped before. The discussion turned from landing to jumping and ditching. Ultimately, that's what he decided to do. But now a new problem, he had descended too far for a safe jump, so he had to get some more altitude, at least 2,000 ft. He slowly got above 2,000 Ft at a rate of 50 - 75 FPM. Then he flew over to Illinois where there was less of a chance of the plane hitting anything or anybody. The last transmission he made, was, "I'm going now." A second of silence, then a voice from the ground, "Don't forget to pull the power!" Probably too late, but apparently he did, because the pilot
parachuted safely and the plane crashed harmlessly in a field not too far away.

WOOW ! ! Just imagine the stress level .
Plane is uncontrollable, you have to put on the parachute , and you have never jumped before . GREAT JOB .

 

[Bill]

If you look at it on google earth you'll see that across from Festus .

Is Gordon's Stoplight still open in Crystal?

 

[weilke]

WOOW ! ! Just imagine the stress level .
Plane is uncontrollable, you have to put on the parachute , and you have never jumped before . GREAT JOB .

I have only seen them wear the emergency chute. Most of the situations that require bail-out evolve rapidly, no time to put it on after shtf.

 

[bullwinkle]

I'm waiting for Bader to get in here and tell us he should have stayed with the plane and attempted an off-airport landing.

Chutes are for those who lack proficiency and training, after all.

 

[timwinters]

Is Gordon's Stoplight still open in Crystal?

Yessirrreeee!!! Ate there about a month ago or so. It's one of those places that I can only eat at about once every two years. It's kind of like German food...I don't crave it very often but I do on a rare occasion.

Great burgers and fries. Better have a full bottle of Tums handy though!

 

[Matthew]

A lot of guys in my glider club wear chutes. I asked one guy if he'd ever had a practice jump, skydiving lessons, or whatever. He said, "Nope, no sense in it. The chute will either work or it won't and practice jumps won't change that."

 

[Bill]

Yessirrreeee!!! Ate there about a month ago or so. It's one of those places that I can only eat at about once every two years.

Great, Dad grew up in Crystal and I had aunts/uncles and other family who lived in Festus. Anytime we travelled back to see grandma we would hit the Stoplight our first night back. Good memories, haven't been there in 30 years.

I'll have to fly up sometime, how is the airport in Festus?

 

[ClimbnSink]

A lot of guys in my glider club wear chutes. I asked one guy if he'd ever had a practice jump, skydiving lessons, or whatever. He said, "Nope, no sense in it. The chute will either work or it won't and practice jumps won't change that."

It would help with them finding the handle and what to do when the handle isn't where it should be(or you think it should be.) But I'm convinced pilots know less about parachutes then nonpilots know about airplanes.

 

[Matthew]

It would help with them finding the handle and what to do when the handle isn't where it should be(or you think it should be.) But I'm convinced pilots know less about parachutes then nonpilots know about airplanes.

Half the battle is getting out of the aircraft. Trying to step out of a 182 with a chute can't be too quick (I imagine). I'm afraid this old man would have a heckuva time getting out of some of those sailplanes where you are pretty much lying on your back, usually with your legs extended well under the instrument panel. But I'm sure adrenaline would help.

 

[timwinters]

I'll have to fly up sometime, how is the airport in Festus?

Short, narrow and rough. But otherwise fine!

Seriously, fairly short and narrow, yes. (2200 x 50) At least it's 50' now...it used to be 30' or 35'.

The runway is acceptably smooth as is the ramp area. The taxiway leading to 36 not so much, lots of asphalt chunks laying around just waiting to get sucked up by a prop. I opt to back taxi 36 if there's no traffic around (or back taxi after landing 18).

There is no taxiway leading to 18 so a back taxi is required for that departure.

I go in there occasionally and used to go in there often when Daymond was maintaining my plane. He's a great mechanic.

Let me know if/when you fly up. I'll join you if I don't have anything going on. I *think* they have a courtesy car. Otherwise I could always drive up and pick you up, it's only about a 1+15 drive for me.

 

[Bill]

Let me know if/when you fly up. I'll join you if I don't have anything going on. I *think* they have a courtesy car. Otherwise I could always drive up and pick you up, it's only about a 1+15 drive for me.

Good, I have a nice goal after I get my medical squared away. (should be able to start addressing that in a week or so )

 

[ClimbnSink]

Half the battle is getting out of the aircraft. Trying to step out of a 182 with a chute can't be too quick (I imagine). I'm afraid this old man would have a heckuva time getting out of some of those sailplanes where you are pretty much lying on your back, usually with your legs extended well under the instrument panel. But I'm sure adrenaline would help.

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/noah-e.html for the mobility challenged.
Ignorance of your safety equipment is **** poor planning.

 

[Matthew]

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/noah-e.html for the mobility challenged.
Ignorance of your safety equipment is **** poor planning.

That's an interesting ejection seat. One of the guys in my club has the same DG they used in that video. I'll have to ask him if he has that system in his aircraft.

He said his plan has always been simply to roll out over the side. It looks like does get simpler with no canopy.

 

[Dav8or]

I'm waiting for Bader to get in here and tell us he should have stayed with the plane and attempted an off-airport landing.

Chutes are for those who lack proficiency and training, after all.

No, no, no. There is no attempt. Only do. The aircraft should have been flown to a runway and landed with no risk involved... according to the teachings of Lord Bader.