Single engine FIKI

[Aztec Driver]

My understanding of the Twinky is that while the original POH states that 'with A,B,C the plane is certified to fly in known ice', subsequently Piper issued an SB that basically rescinded that (a couple of years after formal FIKI certification was introduced). So yes, there are some with de-ice but they are not FIKI. Given the limited ability of the little lawnmower engines to lift you out of the winter clouds, I wouldn't consider it a good choice if ice is a major consideration. Senecas otoh are available with FIKI.

Notice I did not say (type) FIKI. I said "de-iced."

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I flew a TN A-36 for years and what you described was the main problem I had: once ice got on there, it kinna stayed. A FIKI plane can shed a lot. If I'm above things, decending into icing conditions, but know there is warmer air below or relatively high ceilings, that works for me unless I hear of moderate icing from bigger guys. In the A36, I just didn't want to get into any icing because I couldn't shed it very quickly once on there. I did pick up ice a few times, but always tried to change things very quickly. Sometimes in the 58P, I'll just keep going unless it looks as if things will get worse if the de-icing systems are handling things well and I have outs.

Best.

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent, precisely how much experience do you have dealing with ice? That is important if you're going to be telling people what they should be doing when they get into it. Reading about it on internet forums doesn't substitue for experience with the real thing.

I live in the midwest, and I fly all year long - So I've picked up ice a number of times, despite attempting to avoid it. Hell, it's been less than a week since my latest ice encounter. Ironically, I have never picked up ice in a FIKI plane - Those boots must work by magic, or they scare the ice away or something.

However, I'm not telling anyone what they should do... The conversation went like this:

Picking up ice, even in a FIKI airplane is an indication to make a change

That is very overly cautious, especially with a known ice equipped aircraft.

It is? Seems kind of silly to just sit in the ice, even if you do have FIKI

That's not exactly an authoritative statement. It's an opinion... One which I'm happy to have challenged with appropriate info by those who are more experienced (in fact, I think my opinion has been largely influenced by Dr. Bruce's posts of his experiences). Hence, there's a ? and a "seems" there. I'm not telling anyone what to do.

People who haven't flown in ice before seem to think that you pop into a cloud at any temperature below freezing and all of a sudden your plane turns into an ice cube and stops flying. That's not the case

Bingo. The other night I picked up some light rime ice in the DA40 while descending through a layer I'd been cruising on top of. It was the first time I've picked any up in the DA40, I was rather surprised at how well the plane flew... I was expecting a noticeable loss of airspeed, with such a clean wing, but had I not seen the ice, I'd have never known it was there. Performance was what I would expect from a clean plane, it flew beautifully.

I've also flown plenty of times IMC in the winter and picked up no ice at all - That's just not how it works. I think that generally the worst months for ice are actually November and March... But I've even picked up ice in August. There are an awful lot of misconceptions out there.

 

[flyersfan31]

PA46 is FIKI. Not all early Matrixes (Matrices) are so equipped, but Piper made it standard yr 2 because almost everyone except one dealer in the SW bought FIKI.

That being said, I view it as an insurance policy, not carte blanche to fly.

(Doc Bruce, thanks for that story. I will definitely remember that!!)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Speaking of de-iced planes, Kent. Here is a Twin Comanche for you. Even closer to you than me. I'd love to add de-ice to mine, but I loathe the cost and loss of performance.
http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?utm_source=Alerts&id=133277

I don't even need to see the ad to know which one that is... Better ad with pictures here: http://www.controller.com/listingsd...HE-CR/1970-PIPER-TWIN-COMANCHE-CR/1180376.htm

However, that plane doesn't excite me much... Old radios, no tip tanks, etc...
Also, I've kind of decided that the R/STOL would be more useful to me than the de-ice, and I don't think the two are compatible due to the stall fence on the STOL kit. And I think that, especially if I get the de-iced version, I would like to have turbos as well and be able to climb above icing layers more easily.

My understanding of the Twinky is that while the original POH states that 'with A,B,C the plane is certified to fly in known ice', subsequently Piper issued an SB that basically rescinded that (a couple of years after formal FIKI certification was introduced). So yes, there are some with de-ice but they are not FIKI. Given the limited ability of the little lawnmower engines to lift you out of the winter clouds, I wouldn't consider it a good choice if ice is a major consideration. Senecas otoh are available with FIKI.

There is something like that, but my memory is a bit hazy - I know that there is some sort of thing that could cause such a limitation to be imposed, but it did NOT apply to all of the Twinkies. So there are some that are still legal for known ice.

 

[bbchien]

Kent, when you get done with Miller IO-360 ing the Twinkie, Deice, and everything else, you have a short Seneca low on useful load. You'll end up doing what I did.

Really.

 

[flyersfan31]

Kent, when you get done with Miller IO-360 ing the Twinkie, Deice, and everything else, you have a short Seneca low on useful load. You'll end up doing what I did.

Really.

Then get that R/STOL on the Seneca like Ted on the Red board has, and now you're really talkin!