Silk Road creator gets life without parole.

Im just amazed at the sentence for a white kid. Usually the over-the-top sentences go to kids of a different skin color.
 
bartmc said:
He didn't sell any drugs. Perhaps we should arrest McDonalds owners when a drug deal goes down in their parking lot.
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Look. You're arguing semantics. IT DOESN'T MATTER. The law is written in a way that he broke it. He knew what he was doing was illegal and he did it anyways.

He facilitated a marketplace that trafficked in illegal goods. He's responsible for that. Just as all the people who actually sold the illegal goods.

He put himself in a place where he had to hope that someone would show mercy on him and they didn't. That's the cost of a bad decision.

I just don't understand why the world feels sorry for someone who knowlingly did something stupid (and illegal), and is then disappointed when the world doesn't slap his fingers and say "bad boy, don't do that again".

In the words of Jim Carey - "STOP BREAKING THE LAW".
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'd be ****ed off if some azz-clown created a market place for illegal weapon sales and that was how the weapon was acquired.
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No one is forcing anyone to buy illegal weapons or drugs, or anything else. It's a choice to do drugs, or buy weapons, or buy them, or to be involved with people that do. A black market for everything has always existed. The only guilty parties are those that take the drugs or pull the trigger.
 
All hail the rule of law. Morons. The laws of man are a joke. The law of gravity is a toy.
 
retailguy said:
Look. You're arguing semantics. IT DOESN'T MATTER. The law is written in a way that he broke it. He knew what he was doing was illegal and he did it anyways.

He facilitated a marketplace that trafficked in illegal goods. He's responsible for that. Just as all the people who actually sold the illegal goods.

He put himself in a place where he had to hope that someone would show mercy on him and they didn't. That's the cost of a bad decision.

I just don't understand why the world feels sorry for someone who knowlingly did something stupid (and illegal), and is then disappointed when the world doesn't slap his fingers and say "bad boy, don't do that again".

In the words of Jim Carey - "STOP BREAKING THE LAW".
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Life without parole and he didn't even sell so much a Tylenol. Seems awfully steep.
 
bartmc said:
Life without parole and he didn't even sell so much a Tylenol. Seems awfully steep.
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then change the law. James331 said "we the people" run the government. So make the sentence lighter for facilitating an illegal marketplace. Then get on the jury and hear the evidence presented and let him go. Or... realize that the evidence presented was overwhelming and the guy was actually an evil schemer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Hmm... That couldn't be true, or could it?
 
Government said he is guilty and baaaad. Good enough for me, hang him. Who is next?
 
retailguy said:
Look. You're arguing semantics. IT DOESN'T MATTER. The law is written in a way that he broke it. He knew what he was doing was illegal and he did it anyways.

He facilitated a marketplace that trafficked in illegal goods. He's responsible for that. Just as all the people who actually sold the illegal goods.

He put himself in a place where he had to hope that someone would show mercy on him and they didn't. That's the cost of a bad decision.

I just don't understand why the world feels sorry for someone who knowlingly did something stupid (and illegal), and is then disappointed when the world doesn't slap his fingers and say "bad boy, don't do that again".

In the words of Jim Carey - "STOP BREAKING THE LAW".
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Dude, have you considered an enema?

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Dude, have you considered an enema?

Rich
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Gee thanks, Rich. Maybe I'm just tired of the twitter mob who makes decisions on the fly and haven't heard any of the evidence. But they "feel" it, so it must me that way.

You know, the kind in here who told the kids father he shouldn't be po'ed because his son is dead. That kind of folk.

But hey, the problem must be me, right?:dunno:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Government said he is guilty and baaaad. Good enough for me, hang him. Who is next?
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Was it a bench trial? I thought it was a jury trial. Guess I'll go back and read the link.

If it was a jury trial the 'government' didn't get a vote.
 
Well, the article linked is just about the sentencing phase of the trial. Pretty sure it wasn't a bench trial but I could be wrong.

I think he's got a real shot on appeal to reduce sentence.
 
retailguy said:
Gee thanks, Rich. Maybe I'm just tired of the twitter mob who makes decisions on the fly and haven't heard any of the evidence. But they "feel" it, so it must me that way.

You know, the kind in here who told the kids father he shouldn't be po'ed because his son is dead. That kind of folk.

But hey, the problem must be me, right?:dunno:
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I wouldn't say the dad shouldn't be po'd that his kid is dead. That seriously sucks and I'm sorry it happened.

The intent was there regardless of the marketplace, and the person doing it would have done it if that marketplace was there or not. There is more than one source for these things :dunno: Blame the girlfriend who did it, not the kid or the dad.

The guy who put up the marketplace is guilty for assisting in all this, but so are the people who made the drugs, the people who bought the drugs, the people who resold the drugs, the people who used the drugs, the people who sold those people the materials to make the drugs... how far up the chain are we going to go? Btw, wholeheartedly agree that it should be made harder for people to find this stuff.

Don't blame the gun manufacturer for a criminal murdering someone. :idea:
 
retailguy said:
Gee thanks, Rich. Maybe I'm just tired of the twitter mob who makes decisions on the fly and haven't heard any of the evidence. But they "feel" it, so it must me that way.

You know, the kind in here who told the kids father he shouldn't be po'ed because his son is dead. That kind of folk.

But hey, the problem must be me, right?:dunno:
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Nah, not really. It's just me. I've had too much rigidity in my online diet lately. My apologies.

Rich
 
James331 said:
You feel the same for then CEOs and fast food workers at Miky D's?

Fat kills WAAAAAY more people then any drug in the US.

You need to lay off Fox News :yes:
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I'm starting to think you were really liking this Silk Road site. Easy and efficient way to score I imagine. I'm having a tough time understanding why people here give a crap about this worthless turd. I agree that the sentence is somewhat excessive, but I really don't care other than the US tax payer now has to spend a butt load of money on his sorry ass for the next, what, 50 years??

It seems people here are framing this as all about just drug sales, but my understanding is this Silk Road was used to facilitate payment for all manor of crimes including violent ones. America really seems to have a love affair with internet hackers and outlaws for some reason. I personally don't get it. These people never make the world a better place.
 
Dav8or said:
I'm starting to think you were really liking this Silk Road site. Easy and efficient way to score I imagine. I'm having a tough time understanding why people here give a crap about this worthless turd. I agree that the sentence is somewhat excessive, but I really don't care other than the US tax payer now has to spend a butt load of money on his sorry ass for the next, what, 50 years??

It seems people here are framing this as all about just drug sales, but my understanding is this Silk Road was used to facilitate payment for all manor of crimes including violent ones. America really seems to have a love affair with internet hackers and outlaws for some reason. I personally don't get it. These people never make the world a better place.
Click to expand...

It was just drugs and fake ids. Along with some legitimate art etc..

"Making the world a better place" is highly subjective.

IMHO less prudes dictating personal behavior would make "the world a better place" and I could not care less if someone loads a rig full of internet heroin and ends it all today.
 
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I assure you that the Feds' motives for shutting down Silk Road are not the slightest bit altruistic. Their problem is that they cannot regulate it, and more importantly tax it.
 
overdrive148 said:
I wouldn't say the dad shouldn't be po'd that his kid is dead. That seriously sucks and I'm sorry it happened.

The intent was there regardless of the marketplace, and the person doing it would have done it if that marketplace was there or not. There is more than one source for these things :dunno: Blame the girlfriend who did it, not the kid or the dad.

The guy who put up the marketplace is guilty for assisting in all this, but so are the people who made the drugs, the people who bought the drugs, the people who resold the drugs, the people who used the drugs, the people who sold those people the materials to make the drugs... how far up the chain are we going to go? Btw, wholeheartedly agree that it should be made harder for people to find this stuff.

Don't blame the gun manufacturer for a criminal murdering someone. :idea:
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Are we really positive that "they" would do this no matter the length they have to? In short, this marketplace may have made it "easier" to score what they were after.

Take the example posted. The drugs procured there killed our fellow members son. From the limited story posted, it doesn't sound like the intent was to kill him. But the reaction to the drugs they gave him did that. If those drugs weren't available, I'll be the first to say that they still would have done something to get his money. But, that "something" might not have killed him.

On that basis silk road participated in what happened, because it facilitated the ability to obtain the items that killed him. To me at least, that's very different than your gun analogy. Guns are used for other legal purposes, and are also legal themselves. The vast majority of the drugs trafficked on silk road are themselves not legal, and serve no other legal purpose. I think that's an importance difference.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I assure you that the Feds' motives for shutting down Silk Road are not the slightest bit altruistic. Their problem is that they cannot regulate it, and more importantly tax it.
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But they can tax it. IRS regulations require that citizens disclose all income regardless of source. Quite positively, this guy didn't do that, or they wouldn't have had the difficulty finding him that they did.

And had the prosecution failed on the charges he was convicted on, the IRS surely would've extracted their pound of flesh and he'd be in jail for that. Much shorter timeframe, but prison nonetheless.
 
There are far more dangerous things to a govt then illegal drugs and lost tax revenue. Independant thought and free exchange of information must not be allowed.
 
I don't really care about this one guy, I do however care very much about the integrity, fairness, and transparency of the American legal system... and in a larger context our government in general.

Life in prison to me should be reserved for the worst of the worst.... multiple murders, rapists, child molesters, things along those lines.

Quoted from the article, here's why he got the sentence he did
“The stated purpose [of the Silk Road] was to be beyond the law. In the world you created over time, democracy didn’t exist. You were captain of the ship, the Dread Pirate Roberts,” she told Ulbricht as she read the sentence, referring to his pseudonym as the Silk Road’s leader. “Silk Road’s birth and presence asserted that its…creator was better than the laws of this country. This is deeply troubling, terribly misguided, and very dangerous.”
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That's what this outrageous sentence was about- control. This guy circumvented their control, they were mad about it, so they made an example of him. This isn't the right way for a free and democratic nation to conduct justice.
 
cowman said:
Life in prison to me should be reserved for the worst of the worst.... multiple murders, rapists, child molesters, things along those lines.
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See, it's all kind of subjective. You put rapists and child molesters equal to multiple murderers. I don't think those are equal at all. Clearly the courts thought that facilitating the sales of drugs that are known to be dangerous and kill people to children was as bad as multiple murderers. You disagree.

That's what this outrageous sentence was about- control. This guy circumvented their control, they were mad about it, so they made an example of him. This isn't the right way for a free and democratic nation to conduct justice.
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I think you are correct here. Just as cops really, really hate vigil antis, the courts really, really hate people that feel they can operate beyond their reach. Except in the case of politicians, pop stars and influential wealthy people. :rolleyes:
 
ClimbnSink said:
There are far more dangerous things to a govt then illegal drugs and lost tax revenue. Independant thought and free exchange of information must not be allowed.
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Look, I realize that you're the king of the one liner. There's not much substance beyond that, but this one, while satirical, is way off base.

I'm sure that a portion of our Government is all about this, but really, I think the two posts above me nail this issue. They are making an example out of him. Clearly. I don't think it is about him taking "their control" so much as him clearly flaunting that he has no respect at all for the rule of law. For me, that's the scary part of this. For several years he thumbed his nose at the law, and the impact that his idea was having on society.

He did not care, if you, or your family bought these drugs and killed themselves or others. He just cared that he was getting away with it and going to great lengths to do so. If his gain came at your expense, no problem, he didn't care about that at all.

At the end of the day, I could have cared less whether he got 20 or 30 years or life. Didn't matter to me.

What I wonder, is why this guy?:dunno: There are thousands of young black guys that get decades in prison every year for selling the same crap on the corner. No one is posting all over social media about them. But this guy is some kind of internet hero because he was able to hide for a couple of years in plain sight. So, of course, when they finally catch him they are going to kick his arse. Any of us should have seen that coming.
 
It only get serious when it happens to you, and are accused, investigated, indicted, and tried for one of the 3,547,628 felonies or serious misdemeanors in the US. Until they 'they get what they deserve'.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

Take the challenge. If you don't find one, don't worry, there are > 6000 new laws made every year.
 
James331 said:
I agree, let's start with the ones that are peddling the really bad stuff, how about all the dealers that get your kids hooked.

We'll start out with big pharmaceutical, work our way up to Medicare, and be sure to also through the book at all the dealers who got your kids on ritilian, oops that would be most weak minded parents :rolleyes:


Sorry dude, that's not how this country was founded, live and let live.

As long as you're not hurting me you can do whatever you want to your body, not my concern and sure as heck not the governments business.
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Your right, we should have a public hanging, just like they use to do. Every Tuesday lets host a mass gathering at the town square.
 
retailguy said:
What I wonder, is why this guy?:dunno: There are thousands of young black guys that get decades in prison every year for selling the same crap on the corner. No one is posting all over social media about them. But this guy is some kind of internet hero because he was able to hide for a couple of years in plain sight. So, of course, when they finally catch him they are going to kick his arse. Any of us should have seen that coming.
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For me it's definitely not the guy, it's the principle. The guy can rot in jail as far as I'm concerned. It's the fact that the judge has enough sentencing discretion in a jury trial to consider presumed guilt of a crime on which the jury didn't even deliberate, much less find him guilty. That just seems messed up.

And yes, I'm sure this sort of thing happens to young black men all the time. And if we heard of a specific case I'd say the same thing about them. This case just happens to be in the news.
 
azure said:
For me it's definitely not the guy, it's the principle. The guy can rot in jail as far as I'm concerned. It's the fact that the judge has enough sentencing discretion in a jury trial to consider presumed guilt of a crime on which the jury didn't even deliberate, much less find him guilty. That just seems messed up.

And yes, I'm sure this sort of thing happens to young black men all the time. And if we heard of a specific case I'd say the same thing about them. This case just happens to be in the news.
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Well for me, laws are really about cause and effect. If you do X, then we will do Y. We've got good laws and bad laws. The problem becomes, I think law A is good, and you think law B is good. That's the issue I have with standing on principle. Any lawyer worth anything will tell you that's a sure fire reason to lose big by going to court.

Regarding the media and this case being "in the news", that's another good one for me. I agree with you, it's in the news and we've all heard media snippets. For this case, I have read everything I can get my hands on because I find it fascinating in a morbid sort of way.

Yet, I don't feel I can criticize the judge because I didn't hear all the evidence. I didn't watch the demeanor of the defendant every day in court, nor did I hear the conversations in chambers. I don't have benefit of understanding what the prosecution asked the defendant to do in exchange for a lighter sentence, nor do I have benefit of looking at the assets and information that were seized.

The 12 jurors saw as much of that as they were legally entitled to see and they convicted him on all charges, and relatively quickly too. The judge saw/heard all of this, and is in the best place to draw conclusions about what is really going on. So, if you take that "power" away from the judge, who do you give it to? No one? Social Media? police?

Seems to me that overall, it's best placed with the judge, and then an appeals process to see if the judge treated him in accordance with the law.

If any of us have a better idea, then we should change it.
 
Dav8or said:
I'm starting to think you were really liking this Silk Road site. Easy and efficient way to score I imagine. I'm having a tough time understanding why people here give a crap about this worthless turd. I agree that the sentence is somewhat excessive, but I really don't care other than the US tax payer now has to spend a butt load of money on his sorry ass for the next, what, 50 years??

It seems people here are framing this as all about just drug sales, but my understanding is this Silk Road was used to facilitate payment for all manor of crimes including violent ones. America really seems to have a love affair with internet hackers and outlaws for some reason. I personally don't get it. These people never make the world a better place.
Click to expand...


Yes I did like the site, I wasn't someone who spent any money there, but the idea that someone can buy whatever they want without our overlords getting their noses into it, yeah I like that.

As far as it being a great way to score, I wouldn't know, I do don't any drugs pharamasuital or "illegal", but because of the law, but because that not what I'm into, aside from a beer or two I'm pretty boring substance wise.



Dr. O said:
My son died when his hot, new girlfriend proposed that he use this new drug to have super good sex
It was obtained through silk road
The intent was to knock him out so her boyfriend could (and did) take the several thousands of dollars he had on him to purchase a motorcycle (a set up)
Long story short, he was not a drug user and they walked out and left him convulsing
She only served 2 years in prison for manslaughter because they could not prove intent to kill
Wanna guess what I think of this silk road guy
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So your son made the DECISION to do drugs, OD and died?

Sorry to hear about your son, however that's no ones fault but his own.

I've had people try to get me to do drugs at the club, I say "no thanks" if they keep bugging it turns to a "F off". That's always been the end up that.




retailguy said:
You gotta stop assuming. It makes you look really stupid. I don't watch fox news. I don't watch any tv, except an occasional football game.

Also, selling fat is not illegal and not a crime. Maybe you should make it one?

The silk road guy broke the law. Your example didn't. I don't understand why this is so complicated for you? These d@mn facts get in the way of how you "feel". Maybe you should stop watching the news? :dunno:
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Lol, you got it a little twisted bud, it's the facts that seem to conflict with the laws.

FACT guy decided to take drugs, and died.
LAW it's the drugs fault. :rolleyes2:
 
James331 said:
Yes I did like the site, I wasn't someone who spent any money there, but the idea that someone can buy whatever they want without our overlords getting their noses into it, yeah I like that.

As far as it being a great way to score, I wouldn't know, I do don't any drugs pharamasuital or "illegal", but because of the law, but because that not what I'm into, aside from a beer or two I'm pretty boring substance wise.





So your son made the DECISION to do drugs, OD and died?

Sorry to hear about your son, however that's no ones fault but his own.

I've had people try to get me to do drugs at the club, I say "no thanks" if they keep bugging it turns to a "F off". That's always been the end up that.






Lol, you got it a little twisted bud, it's the facts that seem to conflict with the laws.

FACT guy decided to take drugs, and died.
LAW it's the drugs fault. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...

Your lack of class, empathy and common decency continue to amaze me.
 
James331 said:
Yes I did like the site, I wasn't someone who spent any money there, but the idea that someone can buy whatever they want without our overlords getting their noses into it, yeah I like that.

As far as it being a great way to score, I wouldn't know, I do don't any drugs pharamasuital or "illegal", but because of the law, but because that not what I'm into, aside from a beer or two I'm pretty boring substance wise.





So your son made the DECISION to do drugs, OD and died?

Sorry to hear about your son, however that's no ones fault but his own.

I've had people try to get me to do drugs at the club, I say "no thanks" if they keep bugging it turns to a "F off". That's always been the end up that.






Lol, you got it a little twisted bud, it's the facts that seem to conflict with the laws.

FACT guy decided to take drugs, and died.
LAW it's the drugs fault. :rolleyes2:
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You are a little mixed up yourself.
FACT, Guy was deceived and given a lethal dose of something other than what he thought he was getting for the purpose of robbing him.
LAW, it was the person who supplied the illegal drugs fault.

This really isn't hard.
 
I don't believe that he was handed that sentence merely for creating an underground eBay. The feds nabbed one of his associates and put together a case claiming that Ulbricht tried to have him killed before he could roll over on him and take down the whole operation. That one's fairly solid and probably has some truth to it. They then apparently fabricated a half dozen other alleged targets of assassination which are much less compelling, but I think the conspiracy and violent intent were factored into the sentence.
 
ollopa said:
I don't believe that he was handed that sentence merely for creating an underground eBay. The feds nabbed one of his associates and put together a case claiming that Ulbricht tried to have him killed before he could roll over on him and take down the whole operation. That one's fairly solid and probably has some truth to it. They then apparently fabricated a half dozen other alleged targets of assassination which are much less compelling, but I think the conspiracy and violent intent were factored into the sentence.
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I think the fact that Judge Forrest had been doxed on 4chan probably had a lot more to do with it.

-Rich
 
retailguy said:
Gee thanks, Rich. Maybe I'm just tired of the twitter mob who makes decisions on the fly and haven't heard any of the evidence. But they "feel" it, so it must me that way.

You know, the kind in here who told the kids father he shouldn't be po'ed because his son is dead. That kind of folk.

But hey, the problem must be me, right?:dunno:
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While you have a point in some cases, the person who was upset that his son died passed a critical piece of information to the thread: Manslaughter.

That means the jury decided his son willingly ingested the drugs himself and a jury decided that the people who walked out on him ODing were depraved but didn't intend to murder him.

Blaming a website where they bought the drugs for their depraved horse pucky is the same thing as blaming the back pages of local crap rag newspapers of old. The technology of selling things simply became more efficient.

Either way, one still ended up meeting up with the wrong people and choosing to do dumb things like pop an unknown pill for a hot girlfriend to make it all actually go sideways. Whether it was 1975 and a newspaper or today and a website.

Those claiming "The People" should just get the War on Drugs laws changed, completely disregard the power of the Pharmaceutical money in the political process.

"The People" will only prevail in locales that have Referendum processes where they can bypass the politicians.
 
mikeinbama said:
You are a little mixed up yourself.
FACT, Guy was deceived and given a lethal dose of something other than what he thought he was getting for the purpose of robbing him.
LAW, it was the person who supplied the illegal drugs fault.

This really isn't hard.
Click to expand...

Honestly I would not take a Advil from a stranger, but that's just me.

So someone gave him something other than what he bought?

If someone advertised, say, candles for sale on craigslist, you bought one and someone put M80s in wax, you blew your hand off, how is that craigslists fault?

Sounds to me your beef is with the nutjob who caused you harm by tricking you in a malicious way :dunno:


I don't mean to me a jerk here, but it's not always someone fault when we make poor decisions, sorry.
 
James it seems that you are completely missing the point. I don't think anyone has said the guy has zero responsibility for his own death. However, you seem to think that the Silk Road dude has zero responsibility, that's where we disagree. Guy who took the drugs certainly paid for his mistake, he is dead. The two people who gave him the drugs have responsibility too and should be punished. Silk Road guy is culpable as well, and even though that isn't what he was convicted for, he got what he deserved. Look, I think " the war on drugs" is a bunch of crap myself, but you can't violate laws because you don't agree with them. You work to change the laws. To everyone complaining about drug laws, do you put your time and money where your mouth is? Do you financially support lobbying efforts to have the laws changed? Do you protest, write to your elected officials or just complain a lot? We have many stupid laws, we can't pick and choose which ones to follow.
 
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