Should I learn on a taildragger from the outset?

Delta Foxtrot

Delta Foxtrot

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Delta Foxtrot
As a nonpilot who has been around GA for nearly two decades, it is my understanding that learning to fly a taildragger generally makes one a better pilot. With that in mind, as I am currently considering learning to fly, should I start with a taildragger if at all possible? Or perhaps sailplanes, even? There's a soaring club nearby nearby in Stanton, MN, about half an hour south of the Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport (MSP), but I have not a clue if any flight schools in the area do primary training on taildraggers. I did go soaring once. It was wicked cool, kind of like sailing, which I took up at one point because I couldn't afford to learn to fly at the time. And this is coming from somebody who's spent a couple dozen hours in warbirds.

When I moved to Minnesota almost two years ago, I considered joining the soaring club for fun because it's relatively affordable. But now, at 30, I am considering an airline career. If I do go down this road, I feel like I don't have time to spend half a season with sailplanes, in the process delaying 'normal' training.
 
Are you going to go buy a taildragger or fly a lot of tail wheels soon after getting your license? If so, sure go ahead and learn in a tailwheel. Otherwise, just learn in a nose wheel and get the endorsement later. The idea that tailwheel makes you a better pilot is because it is less forgiving of mistakes in technique. But, you CAN become a great pilot without ever flying a tailwheel.

And I say that as a guy who owns three radial engine tail wheels.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Are you going to go buy a taildragger or fly a lot of tail wheels soon after getting your license? If so, sure go ahead and learn in a tailwheel. Otherwise, just learn in a nose wheel and get the endorsement later. The idea that tailwheel makes you a better pilot is because it is less forgiving of mistakes in technique. But, you CAN become a great pilot without ever flying a tailwheel.

And I say that as a guy who owns three radial engine tail wheels.
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Makes sense! Is there any difference once in the air anyway?

I would love to purchase a taildragger. But I honestly don't think I will start with purchasing an aircraft.
 
That will truly depend on the airplane. Most of the tricycle gear aircraft fly about the same, just faster or slower. Older airplanes have more variation. My Luscombe has tremendous adverse yaw which you won't find in a more modern plane. Once you learn to use the rudder properly in the Luscombe it is a non issue. I've always told students that basically all airplanes fly the same. You pull back the houses get smaller, you pull back some more they get bigger. A bit flippant, but the point is that by the end of WW1 most airplanes had similar controls. Everything else is a matter of degree. No need to learn in a taildragger. If you want to later you can. As far as being a better pilot. For that I defer to the great golfer Bobby Jones who once said the toughest 5 inches in golf is the 5 inches between your ears (or words to that effect). Good or bad takes a back seat to safe or dangerous and that is the same five inches. Welcome to the fraternity.
 
First of all, if you are good at sailing, you will be a better pilot. You already understand lift, and stall, which are the principals which keep airplanes in the air, or not.

I started out in taildraggers for my first 5 hours, and then transitioned to trikes. Taildraggers demand closer attention to detail, which is important to learn, and once learned, sticks with you.

Going the whole trip to PPL is not essential to get the advantage of initial TD training. Finding a good instructor who does TD will be much harder than trike, and the plane to fly will be hard to find too.

The bigger issue will be finding a plane with a "6 pack" of gauges, and if you wish to be professional, that is mandatory skills, all the way to the top. Failure to be proficient in partial panel 6 pack will haunt you all through your career. The modern glass gauges are fine, but they require too much learning how to push the right button, which subtracts from the lessons on just how to deal with the information itself.

Learning to fly the magic boxes should be secondary to learning to fly with the separate and distinct indications the 6 instruments display. Also, without the extra information provided by the magic boxes, you will have a better scan, both inside and outside the plane. The plane I flew was upgraded with magic boxes as they became available, and became much more useful with them, for flying to someplace, and I used them regularly, including an IFR LORAN. I bought a Garmin 195 IFR GPS the year they were introduced. The one touch nearest airport on the LORAN and GPS were very valuable, but initial training, you should be watching the terrain you fly over to see where you will land if trouble occurs. The altitude you will fly most of the time, nearest is too far to reach.

After the PPL, buckle down and learn the magic boxes, but remember, they work quite differently, model to model, and from one manufacturer too another, so even if you are proficient in one, the one in the next plane you rent may be a stranger until you read the book and train on a computer.

Best wishes, I did not want to go professional, but did want to be very competent, so studied hard. Thousands of miles of trips later, it is still a thrill to get up in the air and go!
 
Delta Foxtrot said:
As a nonpilot who has been around GA for nearly two decades, it is my understanding that learning to fly a taildragger generally makes one a better pilot....
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Yes, it will ... just like learning to drive in a car with inherently unstable steering will make you a better driver - you will be able to drive an inherently unstable car better than anyone else and then once you move to a normal and stable car , everything will feel so damn easy .... but then again, why drive an unstable car like that in the first place when there are better options ?
 
It might come down to your training options. Most flight schools have Skyhawks, some have 150's, a few have Archers. Very few will have a tail dragger - but they do exist. Unless you're really lucky, driving a good distance for each lesson, the one tail dragger plane they have goes down for maintenance, the one CFI wanting to teach a tail dragger isn't available or goes to the airlines, etc...... all of those things might not be worth it.

Why not just learn on a conventional more readily available plane and then get your tail wheel endorsement later?
 
I learned to fly from the ground up in tailwheel built my 250hrs tailwheel, I also CFIed people 0-CPL tailwheel.

To answer your question. YES.


Hindsight the only thing I would have done different would have been to start off in gliders, then do my single engine conversion and go from there.

https://www.ssa.org/WhereToFlyMap.asp
 
Warmi said:
.... but then again, why drive an unstable car like that in the first place when there are better options ?
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Unless you just really love old unstable cars.

On a serious note, I learned tailwheel because all my favorite airplanes (with few exceptions) have the little wheel in the back. But I’m funny that way.
 
A CFI punching you in the shoulder every time you touch down with a side load is just as effective at making you a better pilot as learning in a tailwheel.
 
Yes, it will make you better at stick and rudder. Like aerobatic proficiency. But if your goal is airline, you need to weigh cost and time. The whole advanced cockpit push is applicable to airline flying aka G1000 172/DA40 and up from there. Will learning on a citabria for the private rating set you back? Probably not, if you switch to a G1000 for the rest of the way.

If my goal was airlines, I would do just that- primary in citabria, then onto tri gear G1000. Don’t flip flop like i did, cessna to piper to citabria to cessna to decathlon aerobatics. It was great, but if I was shooting for the airline(i wanted to be a bush pilot) it would have really set me back. You can always buy a taildragger once you’re raking in the cash as a long haul captain.

For gliders, yes they too are fantastic for skills but unfortunately won’t check the box for an airline career. If you’re spending money and time, it’s best used towards advancing towards a goal. If I had all the time and money in the world I’d do tailwheel/aerobatics/glider first for 5 years, then move on to the career stuff. But nobody has that luxury.
 
At stick and rudder ? Rudder ( more of it ) and breaks ( the opposite, more gentle ) perhaps and only on the ground ... there is no difference in the air so where is that stick coming from ?
 
Geosync said:
Yes, it will make you better at stick and rudder. Like aerobatic proficiency. But if your goal is airline, you need to weigh cost and time. The whole advanced cockpit push is applicable to airline flying aka G1000 172/DA40 and up from there. Will learning on a citabria for the private rating set you back? Probably not, if you switch to a G1000 for the rest of the way.

If my goal was airlines, I would do just that- primary in citabria, then onto tri gear G1000. Don’t flip flop like i did, cessna to piper to citabria to cessna to decathlon aerobatics. It was great, but if I was shooting for the airline(i wanted to be a bush pilot) it would have really set me back. You can always buy a taildragger once you’re raking in the cash as a long haul captain.

For gliders, yes they too are fantastic for skills but unfortunately won’t check the box for an airline career. If you’re spending money and time, it’s best used towards advancing towards a goal. If I had all the time and money in the world I’d do tailwheel/aerobatics/glider first for 5 years, then move on to the career stuff. But nobody has that luxury.
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You’re going straight into a 777 out of flight school?

My oddball non 172 logbook helped me quite a bit with those first few jobs
 
If possible yes... They are skills ya take with you... if its not feasible nothing wrong with learning on a trike... if both were an equal option, i would pick TW in hindsight.

after flyin my little Cessna 140 for a year I will jump in the 172 without a drop pf sweat in a wind a few years ago woulda kept me to home...
 
I agree with geosync. It really comes down to your own career goals and timing.

Will learning in a TW make you a better pilot? Yes.
Will learning in a glider make you a better pilot? Yes
Will learning in a tricycle make you a good pilot? Yes

If you were 20 I'd say go fly gliders and TW for a while. But if you're 30 and want to fly for the airlines then just go to whichever school is closest and has the best availability for aircraft and instructors. Get your certificates, get CFI, build hours, get hired, and fly TW later. You can be a fantastic pilot and fly airliners with 0 TW hours and 0 glider hours.

If you just want to fly for a hobby then pick whichever sounds like more fun right now.

I learned in gliders and did my initial power training in TW. I'm happy I did and it's made me a better pilot. But I'm also not flying for the airlines.
 
Do what turns you on, then move to what turns you on next.

I grew up flying RC models but once proficient, immediately got interested in RC gliders.

I got 3/4s thru my PPL in C150s but got interested in gliding (again). Got my PPL in gliders first, picked up my SEL rating just because it was there to be gotten, but spent the next decade racing sailplanes. I’m a sailplane pilot but haven’t flown one for 15 years.

When I stopped soaring, I got a TW Maule. Loved the challenge of flying one in all conditions. Loved owning a taildragger. They make no sense at all except they’re fun and just a bit more demanding.

Then I returned to my RC roots and built an RV-10. I fly it a bit and operate the AP a lot. Great transportation and the best thing I’ve ever done... since taildragging, soaring, racing, and flying RC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
If you're going to fly taildraggers, by all means. That said, I think there are a dearth of airliners with conventional gear.
 
The instructor is more important than the airplane. That said, good instructors aren't readily discerned by a student, so trying to find an instructor that has over 100 hours of tailwheel and also has a decent reputation might be one way to weed some out.
 
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