Should I get the Comm?

Henning said:
Glider would be 100x's the benefit to Ben as CP at this point. Ben doesn't need CP until he's ready for CFI and that won't be until he knows flying like music and can handle a plane as well as he handles a cello.
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While the rating itself is of dubious benefit to Ben at this point in his flying career, the training for it will likely bring Ben closer to being able to "handle a plane as well as he handles a cello". And despite opinions here to the contrary I see no disadvantage to taking the checkride if he does the training. If and when Ben gets to the point where a commercial certificate is needed I think he'd regret having to train twice and wonder why anyone talked him into forgoing the checkride the first time around.

Certainly there are other training venues that might be as or more beneficial now such as a glider rating or upset training but neither of those are a significantly better choice unless Ben has a particular interest in them.
 
spiderweb said:
Here's me:

Mid-40s. Fly for business and recreation.
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Get the commercial. After the Mangiamele letter, your business flying is subject to pro-rata cost sharing if you have company passengers. With the comm you could even get paid to transsport other company staff.i
 
weilke said:
Get the commercial. After the Mangiamele letter, your business flying is subject to pro-rata cost sharing if you have company passengers. With the comm you could even get paid to transsport other company staff.i
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Of course I'd rather get popped as PP overstepping my bounds then as a CP without part 135 operation.:yikes:
There are demons behind both doors.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Of course I'd rather get popped as PP overstepping my bounds then as a CP without part 135 operation.:yikes:
There are demons behind both doors.
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Man there's as much FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) in aviation as there is in technology.

I've flown as a commercial pilot for companies I've worked for, where they provided the airplane and I flew it. Sometimes it was just me, sometimes it was others as well. Sometimes I had a role beyond flying, and sometimes I didn't. It was all clearly part 91 flying and we only worried about insurance, not the FAA.

It was easy to set up a "company" account with the FBO and have them bill the company for that flying. I never saw any of the aircraft costs, and had no problem taking my regular salary for flying. I could NOT have done that with only a private pilot certificate, especially after Mangiamele.
 
gismo said:
While the rating itself is of dubious benefit to Ben at this point in his flying career, the training for it will likely bring Ben closer to being able to "handle a plane as well as he handles a cello". And despite opinions here to the contrary I see no disadvantage to taking the checkride if he does the training. If and when Ben gets to the point where a commercial certificate is needed I think he'd regret having to train twice and wonder why anyone talked him into forgoing the checkride the first time around.

Certainly there are other training venues that might be as or more beneficial now such as a glider rating or upset training but neither of those are a significantly better choice unless Ben has a particular interest in them.
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I've done upset training.

Now I'm letting all of this brew. I sorta feel the way Henning does, that when I can make the airplane "sing," I should get the comm and CFI so as to be an excellent teacher. (What else would be the point?)

Then again, if I go for the comm, I will get more flying in, in a more concentrated way. The CFI won't be hard for me. I'm used to talking while demonstrating, and teaching, in general. Also, I don't have to take the FOI test.

Well, I'll think about all this! I just did transition training to the Cirrus. Might be nice to instruct in -that- beautiful airplane!
 
spiderweb said:
I've done upset training.

Now I'm letting all of this brew. I sorta feel the way Henning does, that when I can make the airplane "sing," I should get the comm and CFI so as to be an excellent teacher. (What else would be the point?)

Then again, if I go for the comm, I will get more flying in, in a more concentrated way. The CFI won't be hard for me. I'm used to talking while demonstrating, and teaching, in general. Also, I don't have to take the FOI test.

Well, I'll think about all this! I just did transition training to the Cirrus. Might be nice to instruct in -that- beautiful airplane!
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Tell you what Ben, it's like it came down to in the experience vs brilliance thread, there is an average number of hours of practice required to learn to sing, and that practice has a required density in order to train and properly exercise to proper condition, memory and limber the muscles involved. For those I know that did as I and went the utility route of time building, I in my plane doing a survey contract, it comes on the year you do 250 hrs. 100 hrs in the year you're hot and know the plane, 250 you're part of the plane. After that 250 hr year planes will be like bicycles, you might take off with a wobble, but in 10 minutes you'll be on speed and on rails.

I'd suggest that you do Commercial and CFI Glider next while the weather holds. It's a low cost way to get the initials and writtens out of the way while doing high intensity learning of actual flight and perception skills.
 
Henning said:
Tell you what Ben, it's like it came down to in the experience vs brilliance thread, there is an average number of hours of practice required to learn to sing, and that practice has a required density in order to train and properly exercise to proper condition, memory and limber the muscles involved. For those I know that did as I and went the utility route of time building, I in my plane doing a survey contract, it comes on the year you do 250 hrs. 100 hrs in the year you're hot and know the plane, 250 you're part of the plane. After that 250 hr year planes will be like bicycles, you might take off with a wobble, but in 10 minutes you'll be on speed and on rails.

I'd suggest that you do Commercial and CFI Glider next while the weather holds. It's a low cost way to get the initials and writtens out of the way while doing high intensity learning of actual flight and perception skills.
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All sounds good, and reasonable!

I"ll work on some wife-convincing, lol! I just blew a wad of cash on the transition training, justified by noting that the Cirrus is a better machine for traveling our typical 300 nm X-Cs than a Cessna 172 or 182!
 
ClimbnSink said:
Of course I'd rather get popped as PP overstepping my bounds then as a CP without part 135 operation.:yikes:
There are demons behind both doors.
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Ah, no, there aren't. If you have the comm and a 2nd class you can do everything in business flying but have your passengers pay for the ride.

You can take other employees, company equipment, customers etc. everything blessed by the FAA, you can even get paid by the hour for your time behind the yoke to move other staff to a meeting that you yourself don't attend. While the law doesn't state so, Mangiamele has done away with private pilots flying 'in furtherance of business or 'incidental to employment' for all practical purposes.
 
spiderweb said:
All sounds good, and reasonable!

I"ll work on some wife-convincing, lol! I just blew a wad of cash on the transition training, justified by noting that the Cirrus is a better machine for traveling our typical 300 nm X-Cs than a Cessna 172 or 182!
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Look at what you can buy a glider for and get in clubs, not hard to convince wife to go glider for the CFI goal.
 
I kinda did what you're talking about, and am living proof that it can lead to some interesting stuff you might never have thought you would do.

As a typical IR-rated PPL flying my plane around east of the rockies on business trips, got bored with the same-old same-old recurrent stuff and started adding ratings just because it was more interesting. After accumulating the normal pocketful and while attending the NBAA convention in Dallas, I stopped by a SFI booth and was offered a part-time job teaching King Air sim. That gig eventually led to jets and bigger jets and one day I woke up as a type-rated PIC flying the biggest G-whiz jets around the world.

So when anybody asks if they should keep their doors and their options open, I'm always going to allow as how it might be a pretty good idee, just in case lightning stikes their outhouse like it did mine.
 
I'll have to agree that you never know where your ratings will lead. Heck my private helped me get hired at the first "real" job I ever had after college. I never could have imagined what it would lead to, whether you think that's good or bad. :rofl:
 
Everskyward said:
I'll have to agree that you never know where your ratings will lead. Heck my private helped me get hired at the first "real" job I ever had after college. I never could have imagined what it would lead to, whether you think that's good or bad. :rofl:
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I think it's great!

In my case, though, I could never accept a commercial job, except as a sub. I have all my teaching and performing, and I'd have to change my career.

About to make a poll, slightly related to this. . . .
 
spiderweb said:
I think it's great!

In my case, though, I could never accept a commercial job, except as a sub. I have all my teaching and performing, and I'd have to change my career.
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Obviously we were in different situations. I was 22 at the time, open to most things and searching for a direction.
 
Everskyward said:
Obviously we were in different situations. I was 22 at the time, open to most things and searching for a direction.
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Ah, but I'm lucky. As a boy, I loved music and airplanes. And here I am, a professional at one, and a serious amateur at another.

How lucky am I?
 
spiderweb said:
Ah, but I'm lucky. As a boy, I loved music and airplanes. And here I am, a professional at one, and a serious amateur at another.

How lucky am I?
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Exactly, and understand your talents. I really think if you try gliders you will quickly find yourself much more in tune with flying, much more comfortable and 'in key' with the energy. Do glider while the weather holds then go to CP SEL/ CFI-A in the winter.
 
you could always go the glider route then do your Comm and CFI in the glider. It is my understanding that there is actually a need for part time CFI-G's out there.
 
So those rumors about the performing you were doing at the time are unfounded?:rofl:

Everskyward said:
Obviously we were in different situations. I was 22 at the time, open to most things and searching for a direction.
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Henning said:
Exactly, and understand your talents. I really think if you try gliders you will quickly find yourself much more in tune with flying, much more comfortable and 'in key' with the energy. Do glider while the weather holds then go to CP SEL/ CFI-A in the winter.
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I might just do that! There is an outfit at FDK which is really popular.
 
spiderweb said:
In my case, though, I could never accept a commercial job...
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Nor could I, and that's my point against those suggesting not to get the comm.
While still running my own business, I've gotten 2 jet type ratings at big name sim schools paid for by others, made more than enough money to pay for every rating/certificate I've EVER earned, flown to a dozen different international destinations (mostly resorts), had a bunch of fun and am a much better pilot when flying my lowly Mooney. And none of this would have been possible without the comm.
 
spiderweb said:
The CFI won't be hard for me. I'm used to talking while demonstrating, and teaching, in general. Also, I don't have to take the FOI test.
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While I'm sure you'll make a great instructor - there is nothing easy about becoming a CFI regardless of how great of a pilot or teacher you are. Not an easy task to redo even if you're already a very experienced CFI.

The CFI PTS is very tough and it is used to the stricktest interpretation by the FAA inspector that would conduct the ride.

The CFI checkride typically consumes an entire day. The amount of information that is covered is pretty overwhelming. Everything in the Private PTS, Commercial PTS, CFI PTS, FAR/AIM, PHAK, AFH, and all of the various advisory circulars. I went through well over 3,000 pages worth of advisory circulars that I highlighted, printed, indexed, and had with me on the ride.

The majority of the best instructors teaching actively right now probably would not fare well on a CFI check-ride with little notice. It's a tough ride, as it should be, imo.

Don't let that discourage you though. Passing the initial check-ride on the first attempt was one of the most rewarding experiences in my life, especially since the inspector told me I was the first he had ever passed on the initial attempt.
 
I think you should do something without asking the opinion of everyone here if you should do it. Do you need confirmation of every decision you make? Do it, or don't do it, and don't worry about whether someone else thinks you should or shouldn't.
 
I've got a few lessons to go on the TW endorsement in a super decathlon and then - on to Comm and AMEL.

I think i'll get some opportunities to use the Comm and AMEL. As for the tailwheel, its fun. I'd say I get equal satisfaction from instrument weather flying / planning or bombing around in a fun tailwheel plane

I also fly 200 hrs a year. If i flew 60, not sure I could stay truly current and thus able to exercise the Comm rating. But if you think you'll fly more after you get the rating, (exercising it) by all means, go for it.
 
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jesse said:
While I'm sure you'll make a great instructor - there is nothing easy about becoming a CFI regardless of how great of a pilot or teacher you are. Not an easy task to redo even if you're already a very experienced CFI.

The CFI PTS is very tough and it is used to the stricktest interpretation by the FAA inspector that would conduct the ride.

The CFI checkride typically consumes an entire day. The amount of information that is covered is pretty overwhelming. Everything in the Private PTS, Commercial PTS, CFI PTS, FAR/AIM, PHAK, AFH, and all of the various advisory circulars. I went through well over 3,000 pages worth of advisory circulars that I highlighted, printed, indexed, and had with me on the ride.

The majority of the best instructors teaching actively right now probably would not fare well on a CFI check-ride with little notice. It's a tough ride, as it should be, imo.

Don't let that discourage you though. Passing the initial check-ride on the first attempt was one of the most rewarding experiences in my life, especially since the inspector told me I was the first he had ever passed on the initial attempt.
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Sounds like you had an exacting and thorough attitude in preparation for the test, and like you got a tough inspector. Congrats!
 
EdFred said:
I think you should do something without asking the opinion of everyone here if you should do it. Do you need confirmation of every decision you make? Do it, or don't do it, and don't worry about whether someone else thinks you should or shouldn't.
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Rude.

I am not asking for anyone's confirmation. And I'm not "worrying" about what others think I "should do."

Rather, I am asking for the experiences and opinions of the experts on this board. What was it like for them? Did they enjoy it?

I got a lot I didn't know, too. I didn't realize, for example, that I would get recommendations for doing glider. I also never thought about the seaplane rating.

I'm glad I asked. Your post was the only unhelpful one.
 
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