Shopping for an SUV

Diana

Diana

Final Approach
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Diana
It's been a challenge, but I've finally convinced Tom that it's time for his little truck to find a new home. We thought it might be time to try an SUV (used), but we don't know much about the different models. We would like a somewhat smaller version that is economical on fuel, has 4-wheel drive, 4 doors and a smooth ride. We don't need fancy gadgets. Any suggestions for models to check out? Thanks! :)
 
I LOVE my Honda Pilot. And it's got a good name!!

Its 4 wheel drive is limited to low speeds, and then it becomes front wheel drive. 4.5 years, 75,000 miles -- including towing a boat that's 1000 pounds over the car's rated towing capacity -- and only one non-routine maintenance squawk: a bit of pseudo chrome trim is peeling off one of the interior door handles. Fuel economy is about 15 in suburban driving and about 18-19 doing 80 on the highway. Seats up to 8. (That's a LOT of Young Eagles) Easy to drive as an Accord.
 
Diana - you lay out a series of specifications which are mutually incompatible, especially economical on fuel, 4WD and smooth ride.

Tell us more:

1. How will you use it? Be specific.
2. How much do you want to spend?
3. What dealers are in your immediate area (e.g., where can you get service easily), and of these, which do you regard as most reliable?
4. What do you consider "economical" to be?
5. How much driving will you do (3,000 miles / year or 30,000 miles / year)?

---

Edit: I read Ken's post, and will add that I have a close friend who has a Pilot, gem of a vehicle. Plus well-named. But we need to know what use you are going to put it to, and all that other crud I asked for.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I LOVE my Honda Pilot. And it's got a good name!!

Its 4 wheel drive is limited to low speeds, and then it becomes front wheel drive. 4.5 years, 75,000 miles -- including towing a boat that's 1000 pounds over the car's rated towing capacity -- and only one non-routine maintenance squawk: a bit of pseudo chrome trim is peeling off one of the interior door handles. Fuel economy is about 15 in suburban driving and about 18-19 doing 80 on the highway. Seats up to 8. (That's a LOT of Young Eagles) Easy to drive as an Accord.
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Diana if Ken hasn't conviced you becasue of his well lets just call it reputation:rolleyes: LOL , My wife and I LOVE LOVE LOVE our Honda Pilot. Everything Ken described is correct except we get a little better gas milage out of it. We have had Zero Mx issues in 3.5 yrs and 45,000 miles It is very big inside but not outside and does drive like a car. If you want something smaller check out the Honda CRV.
 
I'm very fond of my Toyota Highlander Hybrid. 24 MPG. My model is FWD only but they do have a FWD w/ Electric RWD assist (more fuel efficient than standard 4wd but a bit less torque). Not cheap, at 40K for the hybrid, but I love it. 32k miles so far and no problems, and when I take it onto back/gravel/steep roads, no issues at all.
 
I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and recommend the Honda Pilot. My girlfriend got a 2007 model brand new in December of 2006 (sigh, now she has two pilots in her life) and it has been spectacular! I think hers is FWD only, but it still has plenty of power on 6 cyl., and it has the ECO mode where it "turns off" three of them when you're just cruising at speed. Her gas mileage is incredible (though I don't have exact numbers for you) - we can make it to Dallas from Houston and almost halfway back on a single tank. It really does drive like a car, and comes with some nice options.

Also, I'm going to recommend the Nissan XTerra. I got a used 2002 model in October of 2005 and it's been great. I only have the 4 cyl., RWD, 5-speed manual model, but I've loved the thing. It's easy to drive and I can drive about 280-300 miles on 15-16 gals. of gas. I'm not sure of the fuel economy of the 4WD 6 cyl. versions of it, but I can say that it drives very nicely, though you do tend to feel a lot of the bumps in the road.
 
I love my Subaru Forester. Closer to a station wagon than an SUV, with a nice ride, great AWD in the snow, and horizontally opposed engine (just like an airplane) giving it a nice low center of gravity. Lots and lots of space, good towing capacity, and easy to work on. I've had it for seven years, 120K miles, and it's been light on maintenance - the normal brakes/tires/oil changes, and I changed the serpentine belt at 100,000 miles.

Note - it was a toss-up between this and a Honda Pilot, and I chose the Subaru had a more established rep at the time. Also note that for some reason Subarus are associated with lesbians (no idea why).
 
t0r0nad0 said:
I think hers is FWD only, but it still has plenty of power on 6 cyl., and it has the ECO mode where it "turns off" three of them when you're just cruising at speed.
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Look on the top center of the dash for a button labeled "VTM-4 Lock." This sets 4 wheel drive until something like 10 mph and then you're supposed to shut it off (although it's supposed to shut itself off if you forget). Mine doesn't have the ECO mode. Sounds like a nice addition. Mine is a 2004 model, bought in Oct 2003.

Tow capacity is rated for 3500 pound trailer or 4500 pound boat. I run a boat that's 4300 pounds not including the tandem trailer, which I figure puts my tow up to at least 5500 pounds. It's heavy enough that my tranny won't shift into overdrive, so I keep highway speeds at or below 60 when I'm towing, else the engine RPM is too high for my taste. Haven't broken anything yet, although I did get some funky wear patterns on my tires after one stretch of towing the boat a couple thousand miles over two months. But for the limited towing I do, a couple tires (or even a new transmission) is cheaper than owning a different vehicle.
 
Diana, the other question is how much money are you looking to spend? I am a fan of the American SUVs, primarily because of their low purchase cost and operating costs. Additionally, it would help to know if you actually intend on doing any towing with it (if so how much).

Here are a few suggestions:

The Ford Explorer, despite its nickname of Exploder by some, is a remarkably versatile and well-sized SUV. I find them to be comfortable, ride and drive more like a car than a truck, and generally not be too terrible on fuel. The 4.0L V6 that they've been putting in the thing is a remarkably stout unit and seems to be durable, and the 4.6L V8 is an excellent engine. Plus, the things are cheap - they exist everywhere.

A friend of mine has a GMC Envoy (aka Chevy TrailBlazer) and loves it. He's at 90,000 miles now and it has been strictly routine maintenance. He said the mechanic at the dealer told him about one he'd been working on with 200k last time he was in for service. They had some electrical problems as I recall. I think the Explorer is a better option. The Mercury Mountaineer is the same truck, so consider one of those as well.

I know that it is way off from your requirement of "small" and definitely off from "good on gas", but my Ford Excursion has proven to be a very good buy. The trucks are dirt cheap (nobody wants to drive something that big, or pay the fuel premium), mine has proven quite reliable so far (I'll hit 100,000 in the next few days), and it has a wonderful interior. It still is a truck, no doubt, and it is also enormous. But if you ever think you'll need to carry 8 people, haul an immense amount of stuff, or tow something requiring a 3/4-ton truck on a regular basis, you can't beat it for the deal. Gas hurts, though - 12.5-14.5 mpg @ 70 mph highway.

If small is what you want, and you don't need the 4x4 for serious off-roading, consider a Toyota Rav4. A friend of mine has a 2004 model, and it is actually the only Toyota I've driven that I like (surprisingly). I think the older ones are hideously ugly, but hers I consider to be rather stylish. It is as reliable as any other Toyota (very), gets very good fuel economy, and actually has pretty good utility room. The 4x4 I believe is actually an all wheel drive setup on it (power going to all four wheels all the time), which is fine if you're only for the advantages in bad weather.

I'm sure the other Honda and Toyota vehicles are good options, but I've personally never bought a Japanese car (only motorcycles) primarily because I don't like the way they drive. The American vehicles are far more pleasing to drive to me. Go figure.
 
TMetzinger said:
I love my Subaru Forester. Closer to a station wagon than an SUV, with a nice ride, great AWD in the snow, and horizontally opposed engine (just like an airplane) giving it a nice low center of gravity. Lots and lots of space, good towing capacity, and easy to work on. I've had it for seven years, 120K miles, and it's been light on maintenance - the normal brakes/tires/oil changes, and I changed the serpentine belt at 100,000 miles.
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Don't forget to change your timing belt!

The Subaru horizontally opposed engines definitely have aircraft appeal. A coworker and I were once commenting about that while looking under the hood of a Forrester we were driving on a business trip. Other than the piston slap that Subarus tend to develop from the short piston skirts, the engines seem to be good performers overall.

I've found the Forrester to be nimble for what it is, but very underpowered. Having the 4-speed automatic I'm sure doesn't help that any. I can't imagine towing anything larger than an ATV with it, and even that I would think wouldn't be that great. Certainly here in PA, the engine would be screaming the whole time on uphills. Nifty car, certainly worth considering if it meets the other mission criteria, but not something I'd see myself buying.

I did consider getting a Subaru Legacy GT. Very neat car. Handled well, sure did accelerate well, but had to be one of the least comfortable cars I've ever driven.

Note - it was a toss-up between this and a Honda Pilot, and I chose the Subaru had a more established rep at the time. Also note that for some reason Subarus are associated with lesbians (no idea why).
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I've never thought of Subarus having a more established reputation than Honda, but maybe the Pilot was still on its pilot build at the time. Also didn't realize that Subarus were associated with lesbians. I'm pretty sure the girls I know who drive them are straight...

Wait, Tim, are you trying to tell us something about yourself? ;)
 
Ford Excursion Diesel ... and then start up your own home brew biodiesel processor.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Look on the top center of the dash for a button labeled "VTM-4 Lock." This sets 4 wheel drive until something like 10 mph and then you're supposed to shut it off (although it's supposed to shut itself off if you forget). .
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There's a difference between 4 wheel drive lock and 4 wheel drive. I would suspect you have full time 4WD or AWD. The lock switch or lever locks the 3 differentials so the wheels on an axle or front-to-back axels can't slip. It's limited to 10 mph because it designed to get you unstuck and without slip you can't make turns unless the wheels can slip on the pavement, IOW, the roads can't be dry.

There also may be limited slip in the the differentials which is a halfway solution to getting you traction without a firm lock.
 
gkainz said:
Ford Excursion Diesel ... and then start up your own home brew biodiesel processor.
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Mine's a V10. While the diesel certainly would be nifty (I did consider it) I ultimately decided that the better thing to do was buy the gas. The diesel cost a huge sum more money to buy, maintenance is more difficult and more expensive (and not necessarily less frequent - the V10 is a strong engine with reliable accessories), and my driving involves much less towing than it used to. Plus the V10 is smooth, quiet, powerful, warms up quickly, and doesn't need to be plugged in in the winter. :)

That said, getting a diesel Excursion and running it on biodiesel or veggie oil would certainly be a nice cost savings on fuel. Only really makes sense if you drive it a ton, though.

I've found that I like the Ford trucks quite a bit. I had three Chevys and a Dodge before this Ford, and while there were some things I liked about the Chevys better, the Ford is overall my favorite.
 
mikea said:
There's a difference between 4 wheel drive lock and 4 wheel drive. I would suspect you have full time 4WD or AWD. The lock switch or lever locks the 3 differentials so the wheels on an axle or front-to-back axels can't slip. It's limited to 10 mph because it designed to get you unstuck and without slip you can't make turns unless the wheels can slip on the pavement, IOW, the roads can't be dry.

There also may be limited slip in the the differentials which is a halfway solution to getting you traction without a firm lock.
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Honda calls it "variable torque management."

From the website:

"The Pilot's VTM-4 system operates automatically. But when you need to start off in extreme low-traction conditions such as when stopped in mud, on ice or in loose gravel, the thoughtful VTM-4 Lock feature lets you manually lock the rear differential to help get you moving. And it can stay manually locked up to 18 mph."
 
Ken Ibold said:
Honda calls it "variable torque management."

From the website:

"The Pilot's VTM-4 system operates automatically. But when you need to start off in extreme low-traction conditions such as when stopped in mud, on ice or in loose gravel, the thoughtful VTM-4 Lock feature lets you manually lock the rear differential to help get you moving. And it can stay manually locked up to 18 mph."
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OK.. only the rear. It's got limited slip otherwise. MMMPH. Real Jeeps can lock 'em all. :p
 
Jeep

1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee lasted about 180,000 miles before we traded it in. 4.0 liter I-6 engine, automatic, selectable 2 - 4 WD. Ran great until the end when it started acting up. Decided I wanted something new, rather than throw money at it. 9 years wasn't bad. Yeah, we averaged 20,000 miles a year in it.

2006 Jeep Commander Limited. Bought new in 2006. Just passed 30,000 miles on the clock this past weekend. Averages just under 20 mpg on the highway. Lots of room. Full time AWD. 5 speed automatic transmission. 6800 pound towing capacity. Seats 7 with tiny cargo capacity, 5 with reasonable cargo capacity or 2 with lots of cargo capacity. I know you aren't interested in the toys, but the moving map GPS in the dash is neat. One unit serves as GPS, AM/FM/CD/Sirius radio and monitor for the rear camera when in reverse. And the heated leather seats are nice on a cold morning. And my wife is the primary driver of this vehicle. The license plate rim says, "Mine. Not His. Not Ours. Mine." :D

My ride? 1999 Jeep Wranger with about 134,000 miles on it. Running fine. I might get rid of the factory spark plugs one of these days. Regular oil and filter changes, transmission service, transfer case and differential lube changes and drive it.

Did I mention we like Jeeps? :yes:
 
SCCutler said:
Diana - you lay out a series of specifications which are mutually incompatible, especially economical on fuel, 4WD and smooth ride.
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I wonder why they can't make one that does that?

SCCutler said:
1. How will you use it? Be specific.
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Driving to Colorado a few times a year, and on home health visits in the boonies or 40 miles away to my other job. Need to have room for 3 car seats.

We need to have 4 wheel drive here at the farm.

We don't pull anything. Sometimes we haul a lot of stuff for remodeling, and farm stuff.

SCCutler said:
2. How much do you want to spend?
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Less than $10K

SCCutler said:
3. What dealers are in your immediate area (e.g., where can you get service easily), and of these, which do you regard as most reliable?
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Not too many that work on foreign cars.

SCCutler said:
5. How much driving will you do (3,000 miles / year or 30,000 miles / year)?
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Maybe 20,000.

Thanks everybody for your responses so far.
 
Ken Ibold said:
"The Pilot's VTM-4 system operates automatically. But when you need to start off in extreme low-traction conditions such as when stopped in mud, on ice or in loose gravel, the thoughtful VTM-4 Lock feature lets you manually lock the rear differential to help get you moving. And it can stay manually locked up to 18 mph."
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How thoughtful is it?

-Skip
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Don't forget to change your timing belt!

;)
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Sorry, the serpentine belt I was referring to IS the timing belt on the inside of the engine behind covers, not the various belts on the outside for AC and PS. It was about a $1000 job replacing that, and they did all the hoses and other belts as well as seals while they had the engine apart. Then the day I picked it up I had a front quarter collision that resulted in new radiator, PS pump, and new cover and timing belt again.

It says alot about the resale value of Subarus that the insurance company paid the 8,000+ in repairs rather than total the 6 year old car.

I will probably buy a used minivan next as we're getting to that stage in life with my daughter, and keep the Subaru as Daddy's car. Then when I replace the Subaru, it will probably be with another Subaru. The newer Foresters have a lot more HP than my old one does, but I agree they're not for frequent towing. We brought back a small UHaul from CT to VA and it did OK, but wouldn't want to tow anything on a regular basis.
 
TMetzinger said:
Sorry, the serpentine belt I was referring to IS the timing belt on the inside of the engine behind covers, not the various belts on the outside for AC and PS. It was about a $1000 job replacing that, and they did all the hoses and other belts as well as seals while they had the engine apart. Then the day I picked it up I had a front quarter collision that resulted in new radiator, PS pump, and new cover and timing belt again.
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I hate it when that happens!

It sounds like yours has otherwise given you some very good service, which is good to hear!
 
Diana, if you need 4x4 for farm work and don't have a lot of foreign car mechanics around, I would definitely look more heavily at the American SUVs, specifically the Fords. For under $10k, you can still get a lot of truck. The Explorers are good trucks. The Expedition is a bit larger (based on the F-150 platform), but they tend to resale for the same as or higher than a comparable Excursion in terms of year, mileage, trim, etc. Cargo space is a very useful thing to have. The problem is that SUVs don't tend to have the cargo capacity of a pickup truck until you get into the Suburban/Excursion class.

The Chevy Tahoes and Suburbans are good as well. If you get one, I'd look for a 2000 or earlier (when they still had the boxier style). Those were more reliable. My Suburban was great, but by 214k it was giving me too many little problems for me to keep up with. I have no doubt my Excursion will make it to 200k - there are certainly enough people on the Ford truck forums who've well exceeded that mark with theirs.

Good mileage? Don't expect anything above 20. 13-18 is probably the range you're going to get.
 
I'm still in favor of Carmax when it comes to late model, used vehicles. You get a wide choice of models in excellent condition, a much lower mileage with a good price and the depreciation long gone.
 
I'd suggest a Hummer H1. At 9.5 MPG there may be other SUV's that get a pinch better mileage, but you'd look SO COOL driving it on home health care visits!! :D

image026_883.jpg
 
gibbons said:
I'd suggest a Hummer H1. At 9.5 MPG there may be other SUV's that get a pinch better mileage, but you'd look SO COOL driving it on home health care visits!! :D
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That would get her kicked out of the Sierra Club!
 
TMetzinger said:
Also note that for some reason Subarus are associated with lesbians (no idea why).
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First I ever heard of that! :eek: Maybe it's because a Subaru is not exactly a girly-car.

I have a 2003 Subaru Outback. It has the small 4-cylinder engine which was discontinued at some point a year or two back. The car has adequate power but will not knock anyone's socks off. On the other hand it gets good mileage for an AWD (25-28 mpg on an average). It's very good in snow, much better than the Ford Explorer I previously owned. I'm not sure what kind of "farm duties" you want to do with your vehicle but it's more like a station wagon than a conventional SUV. Still, it will hold a lot with the back seats folded down. I would buy a Subaru again regardless of what messages I might be inadvertently telegraphing to other people regarding my sexual preferences. ;)
 
Interesting... I own the first two of the Top 10 (Jeep Wrangler, Subaru Outback). :)
 
I love my Pathfinder. Second one I've owned - ran the first one to 125,000 and sold it after 10 years. I've got ten years on the second one, at about 116,000 miles.

Timing belt at 90,000, rear transmission driveshaft seal at 112,000, and cleaning up the emission control system after the vacuum canister disintegrated internally at 115,000.
 
Diana,

For your 10K price range, somewhat good gas mileage, in this part of the country, your choices will be Toyota 4 Runner or Nissan Frontier/Pathfinder. My soon to be daughter in-law bought a 2002 Pathfinder with less than 60K miles for $11,500. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee, but it is not the best on gas mileage.
 
KennyFlys said:
Would this Carmax Jeep Cherokee option meet the criteria?

1J4FX58S6WC362702-1.jpg


$8,000
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Jeep Cherokees are great vehicles. The 4liter in line-6 engine is bullet proof and reliable. I have had mine for going on 14 years with 165,000 miles on it.

This was the first year of me really having to put money into the car. I have spent about $2000 in the past year on maintenance. But for the first 12 years I basically spent nothing but oil changes and wear items. Mine is not full-time 4WD but that is ok, you really do not need for most driving. I get about 18-20mpg. The neatest thing I put on my Jeep was a block heater. My Jeep sits outside all year and it really likes the block heater a lot!, makes for easy winter start ups and the heat comes on just that much faster. The block heater cost me $70 and $150 to have installed.
 
smigaldi said:
Jeep Cherokees are great vehicles. The 4liter in line-6 engine is bullet proof and reliable. I have had mine for going on 14 years with 165,000 miles on it.
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Mine is a 2004 with a 4.7 liter, V8 engine. I almost went with another with the 6 cylinder but the EPA miliage was no different. I doubt it was likely to be any better on mileage so I went with the V8 with a bit more tow capacity and 4WD. It rides quite well for such a large vehicle.
 
KennyFlys said:
Mine is a 2004 with a 4.7 liter, V8 engine. I almost went with another with the 6 cylinder but the EPA miliage was no different. I doubt it was likely to be any better on mileage so I went with the V8 with a bit more tow capacity and 4WD. It rides quite well for such a large vehicle.
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Is that a Grand Cherokee, I did not think the regular one came with anything over 4l?
 
smigaldi said:
Is that a Grand Cherokee, I did not think the regular one came with anything over 4l?
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Yeppers! A Grand Cherokee.

I got it right at end of September. I took a look to see if there was anything still on their server for that stock number but it's long gone.

Whoever had it before me took dang good care of it. I did find out it had come from up north, either Michigan or Wisconsin. Not a sign of much exposure, if any, to salt. They didn't replace the windshield yet it was clear of any cracks or chips. Only the headlights had any kind of scratching and that was as if someone used a rough rag to clean them, something easy to buff out should I choose.

This isn't my actual Jeep but one identical to it. I wish I had saved the pics they had on the site at the time.

1J4GW48S14C371600-2.jpg
 
smigaldi said:
Jeep Cherokees are great vehicles. The 4liter in line-6 engine is bullet proof and reliable. I have had mine for going on 14 years with 165,000 miles.
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I'm on my third Jeep and I actually still have my '94 Cherokee going with almost 200,000 miles... (I traded the second one up for my 'new' one I drive most of the time now.)
 
gibbons said:
I'd suggest a Hummer H1. At 9.5 MPG there may be other SUV's that get a pinch better mileage, but you'd look SO COOL driving it on home health care visits!! :D
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:D :D :D I'd like to see the farm dogs try to bite THOSE tires!!!!!
 
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