SFO bay tour or close to it

[Landshark]

I am scheduled to fly this Tuesday in the baking heat. We are planning to leave KRHV around 4pm to avoid the worst of it. I wanted to get your opinion on my route.

Here is the route we are planning:
https://skyvector.com/?ll=37.72437819837992,-122.45220133459259&chart=127&zoom=6&fpl= KRHV KLVK KCCR 3803N12216W 3804N12229W 3749N12229W 3751N12225W 3749N12225W 3749N12229W 3750N12229W 3750N12228W 3737N12225W 3730N12217W 3726N12209W 3723N12204W 3721N12158W 3723N12154W KRHV


We will be on flight following for the entire trip. Our plan is to fly north to LVK and over San Pablo Bay first. Once we get to the west shore of San Pablo Bay, we plan to turn south and descend to 2500 before reaching the Golden Gate. Do a lap of the GG ->Alcatraz ->GG at 2500 and then request a Class Bravo transition. Then it would be a matter of flying through the multiple handoffs after SFO, a midfield transition over SJC and back home to RHV.

I will be calling in for a standard flight briefing and using the SFO TAC. I have flown from RHV to Half Moon Bay under flight following. I have also flown north to LVK and over San Pablo Bay. But, I have never transitioned through Bravo airspace before and I want to get more comfortable with that.

While in flight following, I was planning to request the Bravo transition over the Golden Gate. Maybe something like,"Norcal approach, Cessna 12345 over the golden gate. Our destination is RHV. We would like a Class Bravo transition."

I thought that 2500 would be a good altitude to meet the 2000 foot restriction over Alcatraz while remaining out of Bravo for the sightseeing portion.

Do you guys have any ways to modify the trip to provide better views or an easier flight? Thanks for reading.

 

[Palmpilot]

When I transition in that direction, from abeam KNUQ I just fly direct to the center of KSJC without the dogleg. (They may tell you to overfly the tower, which is approximately the same thing.) Once you get overhead, SJC Tower may tell you to fly direct to RHV. They usually tell me to enter RHV's airspace at or above 1500.

By the way, the chart describes the 2000 feet over Alcatraz (and similar areas) as a request, not a restriction.

 

[Shawn]

Easy Peasy. NorCal is super accommodating and friendly though Bravo. Talking and dealing with a Bravo controller is the same as any other controller on FF. You will just need to obtain a verbal "clearance" to enter the airspace and will be give an altitude restriction to maintain and course to follow while inside the Bravo.

Maybe something like,"Norcal approach, Cessna 12345 over the golden gate. Our destination is RHV. We would like a Class Bravo transition."

If you are on FF, they will know where you are at. All you need is "NorCal, Cessna 12345 request Bravo Transition to RHV"

Search "Bay Tour" and you will see that there are several typical "routes" they will give ya down the Peninsula.

My call at the GG is usually "NorCal, Skylane 12345 request Bravo Transition South and West of 280 @3500' "...I get back a "Slylane 345, cleared as requested" and that is the last I hear from them except a few Approach frequency changes.

There is also remain SW of 101 @ 1500' which will involve a handoff to SFO tower...as well as a few other variations of both those examples.

You will exit the Bravo around San Carlos, be careful you don't clip that 2500' Bravo wedge at Stanford near Palo Alto that is on your route...once you are out of Bravo you need to stay out.

Watch out for stadium TFRs.

 

[colojo]

Your route goes directly over my house in Sausalito. Have a great flight.

 

[Silvaire]

...We are planning to leave KRHV around 4pm to avoid the worst of it...

4 pm to 6 pm is normally the peak as far as the heat goes. Just saying...

 

[Spectre]

This will be much too late for your Bay Tour on Tuesday, but if you would like to get a good briefing on Bay Tours in general, Dan Dyer at San Carlos Flight Center is running one his WINGS seminars on that topic on July 9th. More info here. Max Trescott also does WINGS seminars on that topic, although I haven't been to one in awhile. He publishes a laminated map that can be obtained in local flight shops (including the one at KRHV the last time I looked) that gives good details on routes and what to do.

 

[arnoha]

For me, it's usually easier to get the Bravo out of the way first. I've had much more trouble entering from the North vs. the South. I like the low-level tower transition. KRHV -> KSJC -> KNUQ -> KPAO -> KSQL -> KSFO -> NorCal and out of the Bravo. For that one, you'll get south and west of the Bayshore freeway (101) at 1500' to 2000'. There is also the high-level transition, which is KRHV -> KSJC -> NorCal at 3500' to 4500'. That one, they'll often ask you to dip down below as you pass into the shelf.

Have you done an Oakland transition before? I find that more interesting than heading over the Livermore valley. VPMOR (2500') -> Colliseum (2000') -> KOAK (1400') -> VPMID, then cut back to VPEMB or so to come into KRHV. This is actually more challenging than the Bravo transitions, but gives you the reverse view of the Bay. And you still get Mt. Diablo before you cut over to the Mormon temple.

 

[Landshark]

Thanks for all the great insights. We are probably going to leave at 2pm now due to maintenance reasons. Maybe that is a blessing in disguise considering its going to be 100 degrees tomorrow. I am probably going to just do the Bravo transition for this trip. As tempting as the Oakland transition is, I'll look forward to that another time. I really appreciate all the little nuggets of wisdom and "gotchas" that you guys have pointed out.

 

[Shawn]

Maybe that is a blessing in disguise considering its going to be 100 degrees tomorrow.

Do a COMPLETE and accurate W&B and run for performance numbers for Destiny Altitude and know what to expect...my first take off at gross at near triple digit day was a pucker factor to say the least!

 

[Silvaire]

It'll be 100 on the ground east of the hills but not in San Jose or anywhere around the bay and even over Livermore and Concord it won't be 100 degrees at 2500 feet.

 

[Sac Arrow]

You can achieve 90% of what you are trying to accomplish by staying out of the inner ring and underflying the bravo. I'll transition bravo if I'm trying to get from point A to B, but for sightseeing, the flexibility of not being routed all over the place is nice.

 

[Landshark]

Just a quick question. How do you fly over the city flying north? If I get a Bravo clearance remaining south and west of 101 at or below 2000, it looks like I'll need to overfly San Francisco at at least 1600 MSL. That would put me in Oakland's Charlie airspace. Do I ask the SFO tower for a Charlie transition over San Francisco or do they see me heading over there and hand me off to Oakland?

I may end up flying north up the left coast but would like the option of overflying the city if my passenger wants to.

 

[Landshark]

Or since I am already on Flight Following, I don't even worry about it because I have already "established contact"?

 

[Sac Arrow]

Or since I am already on Flight Following, I don't even worry about it because I have already "established contact"?

Technically, you're not on flight following under a bravo clearance, but yes, ATC will coordinate your transition as required.

 

[Palmpilot]

Or since I am already on Flight Following, I don't even worry about it because I have already "established contact"?

When SFO Tower hands you off to Norcal Approach, you are then in contact with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the class C airspace. That's all you need for that type of airspace. No clearance required, just maintain radio communications (and follow instructions if they give you any).

 

[arnoha]

When SFO Tower hands you off to Norcal Approach, you are then in contact with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the class C airspace. That's all you need for that type of airspace. No clearance required, just maintain radio communications (and follow instructions if they give you any).

...And the typical instruction is to remain North of the Bay Bridge.

 

[Shawn]

Technically, you're not on flight following under a bravo clearance

Can you elaborate out of curiosity? If you are VFR, on a discrete squawk and talking to ATC while transitioning Bravo, then what is it if not FF?

I know it is semantics as being on FF is not the definition of being able to enter C or D but curious what you mean in reference to Bravo transitions.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Can you elaborate out of curiosity? If you are VFR, on a discrete squawk and talking to ATC while transitioning Bravo, then what is it if not FF?

I know it is semantics as being on FF is not the definition of being able to enter C or D but curious what you mean in reference to Bravo transitions.

Flight following is advisory in nature, but once inside of Class B, and Class C, you are getting separation services which are not subject to termination. That's also true if you're in the Class C outer area and happen to be in communication with ATC.

 

[Shawn]

Flight following is advisory in nature, but once inside of Class B, and Class C, you are getting separation services which are not subject to termination. That's also true if you're in the Class C outer area and happen to be in communication with ATC.

I got ya...but I would argue that is indeed still considered "Flight Following" just with the added separation services provided on top of the typical FF advisories.

 

[Landshark]

All I can say is woo-hoo! Just got home not too long ago and it was an amazing experience as a pilot. Flew up north to SFO, received the Bravo transition and made a couple laps of Alcatraz and the Stadium. The clouds were covering much of the Golden Gate and extended to about the Tower. Thankfully the city was completely clear. It made for a very interesting exit from Bravo, with the terrain completely covered near the coast. Without GPS, I probably should have asked for vectors to remain over the shore while complying with the clearance of west of 280.

Even with a favorable forecast, there were fog or clouds when we got there. I was hoping the only good thing about the hot day would be a likely, sunny and clear San Francisco. Guess SF really is that bad. Compared to everywhere else, after exiting Bravo, the Bay Tour was the most tranquil part of the trip. Barely said a word to anybody, and not another plane in sight. Norcal just let us do whatever we wanted, meandering around at 1800 mostly.

I must have flown the flight 5 or 6 times in Microsoft Flight Simulator, practicing which VOR's and radials to use at what time and trying to discern important freeways that denote Bravo airspace. I considered all the great many suggestions here and ended up reversing the trip to better ensure getting the Bravo transition.

When my passenger first asked me to take him up and, knowing I was a low time pilot, said, "Do whatever makes you comfortable," I was that close to avoiding Bravo and doing an old boring flight that I had previously done, one that didn't challenge me at all. I am very satisfied about changing my mind and feel like a Class Bravo barrier has been lifted. He was also thrilled about the whole thing, and actually flew the plane for a good while, getting up to 30 degrees of bank and climbing full throttle for a couple thousand feet. Thank you all for your "been there, done that" tips. Next up, transition through KOAK.

Of course the obligatory Bay Tour pictures as a thank you for reading my drivel.

Candlestick Park AT&T Park

Uncle Sam's Devil's Island

The Golden City

 

[Palmpilot]

Thanks for the report.

The weather on the ocean side of the Peninsula is difficult to predict in the summer.

 

[MAKG1]

Can you elaborate out of curiosity? If you are VFR, on a discrete squawk and talking to ATC while transitioning Bravo, then what is it if not FF?

I know it is semantics as being on FF is not the definition of being able to enter C or D but curious what you mean in reference to Bravo transitions.

If you call NorCal and ask for a B transition, they will give you a squawk code and a clearance. Then, when you exit, they will drop you. If you ask for flight following, they shouldn't (but I've had them do it anyway).

 

[MAKG1]

Thanks for the report.

The weather on the ocean side of the Peninsula is difficult to predict in the summer.

No it isn't. It sucks (almost) all the time in summer.

I flew up from SLO yesterday to Oakland. You could easily see and identify the marine layer coming over the pass from Half Moon Bay, from Panoche VOR at 8000. That was the only clouds visible anywhere along the route. Too much haze over the Central Valley to see the thunderstorms supposedly building over the Sierra (though we could see a few cells on NEXRAD).

 

[Sac Arrow]

No it isn't. It sucks (almost) all the time in summer.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[colojo]

Nice job! Glad you had a good tour.

Candlestick Park is no more. That's AT&T Park.

 

[vkhosid]

Nice job! Glad you had a good tour.

Candlestick Park is no more. That's AT&T Park.

Anyone else as deeply offended by that egregious mistake as I am? Comparing PacBell Park to the Stick? Tisk Tisk..


I keed, I keed....Cool story bruh! I'm supposed to make a somewhat similar flight (though down to KMRY as well) with my dad and uncle next week. Hopefully the weather cooperates!

 

[Landshark]

Nice job! Glad you had a good tour.

Candlestick Park is no more. That's AT&T Park.

Oh, I thought it was renamed. Didn't realize that was a completely different venue. I'm a true noob to the area even though I've been living here forever, lol.

 

[Palmpilot]

No it isn't. It sucks (almost) all the time in summer.

I was talking about the official forecasts.

They sometimes forecast clear weather for the towns surrounding HAF, which, as you point out, almost never materializes this time of year.

 

[Silvaire]

The marine layer in the summer comes and goes in cycles of about a week to two weeks in duration. The differences year over year are how far in and out it cycles from the coast and that also is a longer term cycle. This year is about the second where the marine layer is strengthening so it may not often even break away from the coast. Next year my bet is it will be even stronger. I lived in Alameda for a few years back in the 80's and I think it was around '86 or '87 that I only saw the sun a few times during the summer and that was only for about half an hour or so around 4 in the afternoon before the fog came back in. Every now and then we'll get an off-shore flow and on those days it will be hotter in San Francisco than Walnut Creek and there will be no marine layer in sight.

 

[VictorValencia]

As part of your flight planning for a Bay Tour be sure to have a contingency
plan in case you cannot get the Bravo transition. When things get busy your
transition may be denied in one direction or the other. If you are transitioning
from the south, an alternate is to head out over HAF and stay below the Bravo.
Then head north over the GG. It is actually a nice route since you can
spot whales 0.5 miles off the coastline to the West of the city. Just make
sure you remain a safe distance from shore since you'll be below 2000'. Also
watch out for the small portion of the Bravo that drops down to 1500'.

Also note that north/south transitions near highway 101 keep you down low
whereas transitions to the West over highway 280 typically have you at 3500'
which is fun because the big boys leaving SFO are sometimes below you.

Victor

 

[Landshark]

As part of your flight planning for a Bay Tour be sure to have a contingency
plan in case you cannot get the Bravo transition. When things get busy your
transition may be denied in one direction or the other. If you are transitioning
from the south, an alternate is to head out over HAF and stay below the Bravo.
Then head north over the GG. It is actually a nice route since you can
spot whales 0.5 miles off the coastline to the West of the city. Just make
sure you remain a safe distance from shore since you'll be below 2000'. Also
watch out for the small portion of the Bravo that drops down to 1500'.

Also note that north/south transitions near highway 101 keep you down low
whereas transitions to the West over highway 280 typically have you at 3500'
which is fun because the big boys leaving SFO are sometimes below you.

Victor

I got the west of 280 at 3500' clearance. Didn't get any airliners fly under us but did get to see a couple climb from down low, get pretty close at eye level and climb out. Felt pretty cool to be sharing the same space with them. If flying north and denied Bravo clearance, is there a way through Oakland?

 

[MetalCloud]

I got the west of 280 at 3500' clearance. Didn't get any airliners fly under us but did get to see a couple climb from down low, get pretty close at eye level and climb out. Felt pretty cool to be sharing the same space with them. If flying north and denied entry, is there a way through Oakland?

I always go clockwise from Palo Alto.. Don't know why you couldn't go the other way through OAK. Will let @MAKG1 comment on that

 

[Palmpilot]

I don't think I've ever been denied a transition through the Oakland class C. The route they give you will depend on which direction you're coming from.

 

[MAKG1]

I always go clockwise from Palo Alto.. Don't know why you couldn't go the other way through OAK. Will let @MAKG1 comment on that

I've been through OAK several times from multiple directions. No problem, except they like to use visual checkpoints a lot. Review where Sunken Ship, mid-span San Mateo Bridge, Mormon Temple, 880, Coliseum, and the 30 numbers are. The only one that's kinda hard is the Mormon Temple, as it's actually easier to spot from the ground. If you can't spot one, just say "unfamiliar" and they'll help out. Avoid loitering along the extended centerlines for 30 and 28 due to the ILSs.

I would expect a transition to be denied during an A's game, though I haven't tested that. I did take a landing once, and it was a zoo -- two banner tows and an airship, all just off the 33 DER and barely outside the pattern.