September 11th, 1994

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
18,431
Location
Castle Rock, CO
Display Name
Display name:
Everything Offends Me
I am writing a research paper for my English class. It is supposed to be an argumentative essay, and I've chosen GA being scapegoated as my topic. I am looking for information on the drunk crackhead that crashed into the white house and am falling into two probs, I hope someone can help:

1) Reports vary on wheter or not the crash happened 9/11/94, 9/12/94 or 9/13/94. All variances are from reputable sources, too.

2) I can't find the NTSB report for the life of me. Anyone have a way to get that?
 
Interesting, I can't find that one in the NTSB or FAA databases...
:dunno: :rolleyes:
 
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/ustreas/usss/t1pubrpt.html

reports the crash occurred at approximately 1:49 a.m. on the 12th

SkyHog said:
I am writing a research paper for my English class. It is supposed to be an argumentative essay, and I've chosen GA being scapegoated as my topic. I am looking for information on the drunk crackhead that crashed into the white house and am falling into two probs, I hope someone can help:

1) Reports vary on wheter or not the crash happened 9/11/94, 9/12/94 or 9/13/94. All variances are from reputable sources, too.

2) I can't find the NTSB report for the life of me. Anyone have a way to get that?
Click to expand...
 
F.W. Birdman said:
It's dated 9/13
Click to expand...

Steve said:
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/ustreas/usss/t1pubrpt.html

reports the crash occurred at approximately 1:49 a.m. on the 12th
Click to expand...

There's my problem. I've also seen other reports that claim 9/11 at 11:00pm. All of the sources are reputable. If I could find the NTSB report, at least I'd have a standard that I feel comfortable using as fact.

Would they have pulled it for security reasons?
 
It happened over a weekend, so the FAA wouldn't record it until the following Monday at the earliest. That would give the security folks time to intervene, I suppose.

http://www.ustreas.gov/inspector-general/semiannual-reports/aprsep95.shtml

describes the date as 9/12/1994

SkyHog said:
There's my problem. I've also seen other reports that claim 9/11 at 11:00pm. All of the sources are reputable. If I could find the NTSB report, at least I'd have a standard that I feel comfortable using as fact.

Would they have pulled it for security reasons?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Baesd on the FAS report....


THE SEPTEMBER 12, 1994 PLANE CRASH​
On Sunday, September 11, 1994, after spending an evening with his brother consuming alcohol and smoking crack cocaine, Frank Eugene Corder asked his brother to drop him off in the vicinity of Aldino Airport in Churchville, Maryland. Corder walked to the airport and found the keys to a Cessna P150 airplane that had been returned to the airport earlier that day after having been rented by another individual. Although Corder was not a licensed pilot, he had taken several lessons in the aircraft and had flown it several times during the summer of 1993.

According to the airplane's hobbsmeter, which records the engine's total running time, Corder started the plane's engine at 11:55 p.m. FAA radar at the Baltimore/Washington International Airport first detected the airplane in the vicinity of York, Pennsylvania, at 1:06 a.m. Precisely what transpired in the interim is unknown.

Corder's flight path from York can be discerned from FAA radar records. He flew south for a short distance and then west. At 1:44 a.m., the National Airport tower began receiving transmissions that showed that Corder was approximately 6.5 miles north of the White House, flying at an altitude of 2700 feet. The aircraft descended approximately 1000 feet over the next three minutes. At 1:47 a.m., the airplane turned directly south. It passed over Washington Circle and entered the prohibited airspace that surrounds the White House at approximately 1:48 a.m. The protected airspace, designated as P-56, is a no-fly zone that generally encompasses the White House and the Mall from the Lincoln Memorial to the Capitol. The plane flew toward the Mall descending rapidly.

Corder then passed over the Ellipse and dove directly toward the White House at a steep angle of descent. His plane crashed onto the White House lawn just south of the Executive Mansion at approximately 1:49 a.m. The aircraft skidded across the ground, struck a magnolia tree just west of the South Portico steps, and hit the southwest corner of the first floor of the Mansion. The President and First Family were not in the Mansion at the time of the crash. They were residing at Blair House while the White House was undergoing renovations. There was minimal damage to the Mansion.

Corder died from multiple, massive blunt-force injuries. Based on the physical evidence, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concluded that the crash was intentional rather than a failed attempt at a controlled landing. The airplane's velocity on impact clearly exceeded a safe landing speed. Moreover, the airplane's wing flaps were up and its throttle position was "full forward," neither of which is characteristic of an aircraft in a landing posture. At the time of the crash, Corder was thirty-eight years old. He abused alcohol and cocaine, and faced a wide array of financial, marital, and legal problems. Both cocaine and alcohol were found in Corder's blood after the crash. The D.C. Medical Examiner ruled Corder's death a suicide. The Review did not discover information inconsistent with this conclusion.

Although Corder had previously expressed dissatisfaction with the policies of the Clinton administration and expressed antipathy to President Clinton, there is no evidence that the purpose of the flight was to harm the President or any other Secret Service protectee. Prior to this incident, Corder had not come to the attention of the Secret Service as a potential threat to its protectees. It appears that by crashing onto the White House lawn, Corder was attempting to fulfill an ambition he had expressed to friends to kill himself "in a big way" by flying an airplane into the White House or the dome of the Capitol.

Within minutes of the crash, the Presidential Protective Division (PPD) was notified, additional Secret Service personnel were dispatched to the scene, a perimeter was established, the Technical Security Division (TSD) and the military's Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) team were called to investigate for explosives. In addition, the D.C. Fire Department and paramedics were summoned, and the control tower at National Airport was contacted regarding the crash. Corder's name was also found and reported for investigation.

Within one hour of the crash, individuals representing seven agencies were at the site. In addition to Secret Service and EOD personnel, FBI, MPD, ATF, and NTSB representatives responded to the scene.

Individuals responding to the scene reported that the various agencies interacted efficiently and cooperatively. The work of rendering the scene safe, ensuring that the airplane did not contain explosives, securing the evidence, and initiating the criminal investigation proceeded in an organized fashion.
 
Must be a lie. We all know THIS could never happen.
Individuals responding to the scene reported that the various agencies interacted efficiently and cooperatively.
Click to expand...
Not in OUR government. No way!
 
F.W. Birdman said:
Baesd on the FAS report....

Cessna P150?
Click to expand...

Is that a pressurized 150? :)
F.W. Birdman said:
According to the airplane's hobbsmeter, which records the engine's total running time, Corder started the plane's engine at 11:55 p.m.
Click to expand...

We all know that Hobbs meters run whenever the master switch is turned on whether the engine is running or not.

Not a big deal but I always get a kick out in inaccuracies like this in official reports.

Jeannie
 
Maverick said:
We all know that Hobbs meters run whenever the master switch is turned on whether the engine is running or not.

Not a big deal but I always get a kick out in inaccuracies like this in official reports.

Jeannie
Click to expand...

Depends on how they are wired. Some work off the oil pressure sensor, some off a gear squat switch. But in the 150 probably the master.
 
ejensen said:
Depends on how they are wired. Some work off the oil pressure sensor, some off a gear squat switch. But in the 150 probably the master.
Click to expand...
Ok, I wasn't aware of that. In every aircraft I have flown that had a hobbs meter it was power on with the master switch. Of course my experience has been limited primarily to Cessnas with a few hours in here and there in other aircraft. I the Cessna 150 I'm pretty sure it would be powered on by the master switch.

Jeannie
 
Maverick said:
Ok, I wasn't aware of that. In every aircraft I have flown that had a hobbs meter it was power on with the master switch. Of course my experience has been limited primarily to Cessnas with a few hours in here and there in other aircraft. I the Cessna 150 I'm pretty sure it would be powered on by the master switch.
Click to expand...

Harder to cheat and more accurate if it is wired to the engine somehow. Gear squat switch will give you flight time.
 
ejensen said:
Depends on how they are wired. Some work off the oil pressure sensor, some off a gear squat switch. But in the 150 probably the master.
Click to expand...

Does the hobbs record the time the engine was started?:dunno:
 
tom. said:
Does the hobbs record the time the engine was started?:dunno:
Click to expand...
I've never seen a hobbs meter that recorded specific times like keeping a log of start times.

I've never seen a hobbs meter that recorded anything but running time. They just show total hours. All the ones I've seen start running as soon as the master is turned on and they stop when the master is turned off. There may be more sophisticated means of recording time in advanced aircraft models that I have not seen.

My Cardinal does not have a hobbs meter. I usually just use a timer to time my flight time. if I forget to set the timer I just log my flight by tach time.

The FBOs that I've rented aircraft from always went by the hobbs time and it was always master switch on to master switch off. Obviously it is in their favor to do that.

Jeannie
 
tom. said:
Does the hobbs record the time the engine was started?:dunno:
Click to expand...

Not that I've ever seen just time. They must have subtracted the hobbs reading after the crash from the crash time.
 
Maverick said:
Ok, I wasn't aware of that. In every aircraft I have flown that had a hobbs meter it was power on with the master switch. Of course my experience has been limited primarily to Cessnas with a few hours in here and there in other aircraft. I the Cessna 150 I'm pretty sure it would be powered on by the master switch.

Jeannie
Click to expand...

Jean, if that's the case, then you can secure power (turn off the master) and fly on with no charge. The mags will keep it running....that's why the ones I have seen have all been engine oil preesure (FG), and squat switch for RG's. I am sure there are exceptions....
 
You won't find this one in the NTSB database because it was a deliberate act, not an accident, and the NTSB only completes investigations on accidents. The only reason the 9/11/01 events are in the database was that they didn't know for sure they were deliberate acts before they opened the files. and you'll see they closed those out without producing any findings. Corder's act was known to be deliberate from the git-go, and the FBI and USSS took the lead from the start. This was an issue in the TW800 investigation -- the FBI assumed it was a criminal act at the start, and acted accordingly. NTSB investigators were barred from performing their usual duties in their usual manner because it would not meet the criminal evidentiary standards. As a result, material was collected and secured for criminal prosecution rather than being handled and analyzed by NTSB personnel in their normal manner, and witness statements were taken by non-aviation investigators.
 
Last edited:
F.W. Birdman said:
Jean, if that's the case, then you can secure power (turn off the master) and fly on with no charge. The mags will keep it running....that's why the ones I have seen have all been engine oil preesure (FG), and squat switch for RG's. I am sure there are exceptions....
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point. But I've never tried to defeat the hobbs by flying with the master switch turned off.
 
Nearly all the airplanes I rent, with one exception, have the "Rental" hobbs driven by the oil pressure switch. There is generally a second "engine" hobbs somewhere driven by ignition pulses or something in such a way that it records one hour at 2300 (or some other "normal") RPM and adjusts accordingly.

If the trainers I flew, particularly with G1000, were driven off of master switches you'd hear the howls of protest at FDK all the way to PTK!
 
Can't speak to all models of Cessna 150s but on my '76 C-150M, the Hobbs runs off an oil pressure switch.
 
I could be wrong on this hobbs thing. I haven't flown an airplane that had a hobbs in a long tiime. I do remember when I took my flight training many years ago I was told that the hobbs meters in the schools aircraft started when the master was turned on. I guess I just assumed they all worked that way.

In any case I want to apologize for hjacking this thread on that point.
 
F.W. Birdman said:
the ones I have seen have all been engine oil preesure (FG), and squat switch for RG's. I am sure there are exceptions....
Click to expand...
I flew a twin Cessna that had an air switch. The airflow would cause a tab to deflect aft and trigger a switch. The airplane was not a rental, however, or someone would have figured out you could tape the switch forward.

As far as the date goes, are you trying to prove some kind of weird coincidence?
 
Thanks all for the info. I'll just leave the date out of the paper, its not too important.

Everskyward said:
As far as the date goes, are you trying to prove some kind of weird coincidence?
Click to expand...

Not really. I was kind of hoping to refer to it as the "real September 11th" since it would at least make sense that an event like that would lead to security restrictions on us, rather than an event like 9/11/01 where GA had nothing to do with the tragedy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top