School "Checkout" for certain airports

iWantWings

iWantWings

Pre-takeoff checklist
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The flight school I rent from has a policy that requires aircraft renters to be "checked out" for flying to 2 airports: Catalina (KAVX, on an island) and Big Bear (L35, mountainous, ~6,750 feet).

I think the policy is derived from the terms and conditions of the flight school's insurance company. So, as I understand it, if a pilot (for example, a certificated private pilot) crashes while flying the school's rented plane to any of these two airports, one of the first things the insurance will check is the pilot's "checkout" status for the particular airport.

Be that as it may, yesterday I did the checkout for Big Bear and it was great: the 1-hour ground lesson (density altitude and its effect on aircraft performance, the effect of terrain on winds, flying through canyons, etc.) was common sense, but it was tailored for the airport. The flight itself was lots of fun; it did keep me busy. It was also for the first time that I got to 10,000 feet for a brief time (wanted a bit of AGL buffer near some tall peaks)

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The flight was in a C172 "S" model; the 180HP IO-360 is smooth and had good climb performance (don't laugh, I'm only comparing it with other 150-160 hp C172 and the 85 hp yellow plane).
 
Good pics. The checkouts for Big Bear and Catalina are based on operational experience, not just insurance.

Flying to Big Bear in the winter is a bit misleading, you don't really experience the full effects of DA on performance. Try it sometime when it is in the high 80's there and the winds are swirling around the basin.

The collection of scrap aluminum around Catalina is a testament to the need for checkouts there.
 
Yup

I've conducted a few Big Bear checkouts, sometimes it's just a no big deal thing, I used to combine it with a BFR if requested which often made it acceptable for high time folks

Also had some guys who were not windaware nor really "got" DA ops, just for those few it made the policy make sense.


As for Avalon, I haven't don't a checkout for any one there, but I think folks make that place out to be a much bigger deal than it really is.
 
That's a pretty standard requirement for those two destinations in Southern California. Even going back to the 1980's, many flight schools in SoCal required a checkout for Big Bear and Catalina. Both very nice destinations by the way.
 
I agree it's standard. I was in a flying club at KFUL and now rent from Fun Outside (KFUL) a couple times a year when I'm out to visit the family. Both require checkouts for those places.

The first time I did them on separate days. The second time I looped them. Was interesting because the first time was a PA28-180 and the second was a C172.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Good pics. The checkouts for Big Bear and Catalina are based on operational experience, not just insurance.

Flying to Big Bear in the winter is a bit misleading, you don't really experience the full effects of DA on performance. Try it sometime when it is in the high 80's there and the winds are swirling around the basin.

The collection of scrap aluminum around Catalina is a testament to the need for checkouts there.
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You're totally right: after factoring in the local airport temp and atmospheric pressure, the density altitude turned out to be only a few hundred more than the airport's 6800 foot elevation. I've seen photos of the "digital density altitude panel" that is posted at both ends of the runway and saw a value of 10,000 feet! (taken some time in the summer, of course). Yeah, for this winter flight it DA was no factor as it will be in the summer.

Catalina seems to have its challenges too - of different kind.
 
James331 said:
Yup

I've conducted a few Big Bear checkouts, sometimes it's just a no big deal thing, I used to combine it with a BFR if requested which often made it acceptable for high time folks

Also had some guys who were not windaware nor really "got" DA ops, just for those few it made the policy make sense.


As for Avalon, I haven't don't a checkout for any one there, but I think folks make that place out to be a much bigger deal than it really is.
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Hey that's an idea, since you mentioned you were some times using Big Bear as part of the BFR: do all the BFR stuff high density altitude ;)

Avalon is where I wanna go with the J-3 cub at: 500 feet over surface of the water while wearing snorkel gear, just in case (in he J3 it would take me more than 30 min of flight over water).
 
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Yup, it's a great place. I did my first mountain landing there, in Spring on a nice day, 8500 DA. In a Warrior. Learned a great deal about Vy and reading winds that day.

I'm in Palmdale now, working my behind off. The weather has been fabulous, and I'd really rather be flying.
 
SoCalPilot88 said:
That's a pretty standard requirement for those two destinations in Southern California. Even going back to the 1980's, many flight schools in SoCal required a checkout for Big Bear and Catalina. Both very nice destinations by the way.
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rolivi said:
I agree it's standard. I was in a flying club at KFUL and now rent from Fun Outside (KFUL) a couple times a year when I'm out to visit the family. Both require checkouts for those places.

The first time I did them on separate days. The second time I looped them. Was interesting because the first time was a PA28-180 and the second was a C172.
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I really didn't know how common or uncommon this "checkout" was for Big Bear and Catalina airports. It does make sense - in fact, so much so that it'd be good if students get to fly there, with CFI, later in the training. Maybe not to get checked out necessarily, but at least to experience whatever makes the 2 airports more demanding/less margin of error.

Looping both Big Bear and Catalina must've been cool - that's something i wanna do one day in the J-3.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, it's a great place. I did my first mountain landing there, in Spring on a nice day, 8500 DA. In a Warrior. Learned a great deal about Vy and reading winds that day.

I'm in Palmdale now, working my behind off. The weather has been fabulous, and I'd really rather be flying.
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8500 DA in the Spring already. Hmmm... wonder what summer must be like(!). Vy and Vx start to converge ;)

Even though DA was not a major factor when i went yesterday, the veeeery lethargic start of the takeoff roll really go my attention (mixture was all set "properly" as can be using only RPM). The plane was moving and eating up runway, but the airspeed was not alive. Big mid-point we were just starting to lift off. We did a few takeoffs and landing, alternating between normal and short field takeoff procedures. It was interesting.
 
iWantWings said:
I really didn't know how common or uncommon this "checkout" was for Big Bear and Catalina airports. It does make sense - in fact, so much so that it'd be good if students get to fly there, with CFI, later in the training. Maybe not to get checked out necessarily, but at least to experience whatever makes the 2 airports more demanding/less margin of error.
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Very common. I was on a business trip in LA in 2003 and took the opportunity to arrange a Catalina checkout ("very cool" according to my logbook entry). As one relatively experienced in mountain flight, I could easily see the reason for the requirement.

The "check out" is exactly what the bolded portion of your post is all about.
 
When I rented from a place in Washington State, I was amused to learn that landing at a field as short as my home field required a special checkout.
 
Am I the only one who is bothered by the placard "Lean when taxing" (as opposed to "lean when taxiing")?
 
I would have been amused if I'd noticed it!
 
Lol, I did my long cross country to L35. But then, I'm BPITW.
 
Palmpilot said:
When I rented from a place in Washington State, I was amused to learn that landing at a field as short as my home field required a special checkout.
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I had that happen years ago. I was working and, on a day off, thought I'd rent an airplane to fly home for the day. Problem was that I wasn't allowed to land at my home base because it was too short.
 
DesertNomad said:
Am I the only one who is bothered by the placard "Lean when taxing" (as opposed to "lean when taxiing")?
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I saw that. I also see an inop" sticker on the autopilot. I think autopilots come from the factory with that sticker applied....
 
My club up North has an unwritten "policy" that pilots need a "Tahoe Checkout" the idea is to make people aware of how terrible our NA airplanes are at altitude and to teach them how to lean on before takeoff. I requested that I trade that training for some local operations and Class B training as I knew nothing about either.

When I flew in the high-desert we would sit in front of the FBO and watch every time a flat-lander was taking off. Without fail you would hear the engine power up then about 500-1000 ft down the runway it would suddenly get louder. Probably a mix between forgetting and not knowing how to properly lean.

Catalina is a different ball game. When you do that checkout do they point you in the right direction on where to get inflatable life jackets and when to actually inflate them in the event that you end up in the water? If I was a FAA guy and wanted to have a field day, chilling at Catalina and asking arrivals to show their life jackets would do it.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
My club up North has an unwritten "policy" that pilots need a "Tahoe Checkout" the idea is to make people aware of how terrible our NA airplanes are at altitude and to teach them how to lean on before takeoff. I requested that I trade that training for some local operations and Class B training as I knew nothing about either.



When I flew in the high-desert we would sit in front of the FBO and watch every time a flat-lander was taking off. Without fail you would hear the engine power up then about 500-1000 ft down the runway it would suddenly get louder. Probably a mix between forgetting and not knowing how to properly lean.



Catalina is a different ball game. When you do that checkout do they point you in the right direction on where to get inflatable life jackets and when to actually inflate them in the event that you end up in the water? If I was a FAA guy and wanted to have a field day, chilling at Catalina and asking arrivals to show their life jackets would do it.
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Then.... Line up to be the guy selling the inflatable life jackets on the ramp for a healthy profit to cover the landing fee.

Haven't done AVX on my own yet, but I do plan on taking an instructor the first time. It just makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Catalina is a different ball game. When you do that checkout do they point you in the right direction on where to get inflatable life jackets and when to actually inflate them in the event that you end up in the water? If I was a FAA guy and wanted to have a field day, chilling at Catalina and asking arrivals to show their life jackets would do it.
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How come? I'm not objecting to your decision to use a life vest, but out of curiosity, why would the FAA guy have a field day?

FAR 91.205(a)(12) refers to flotation gear, but it only applies to "aircraft operated for hire over water."

It also only applies to flights where the aircraft is flown "beyond power-off gliding distance from shore." If you chose the shortest route and fly it at altitude (say 6500), you're in gliding distance of shore at all times.

Is there some other regulation that mandates a life vest for aircraft that aren't flown for hire?
 
I took vacation last year and stayed near SNA, rented an LSA and flew it to Catalina with an instructor.

The dropping terrain off both ends of the runway as well as the cliffs all around the island really mess with your approach and sight picture. Definitely not surprised a checkout is required. Worth it though, one of the coolest airports I ever landed at:)
 
register@teamandras.com said:
How come? I'm not objecting to your decision to use a life vest, but out of curiosity, why would the FAA guy have a field day?

FAR 91.205(a)(12) refers to flotation gear, but it only applies to "aircraft operated for hire over water."

It also only applies to flights where the aircraft is flown "beyond power-off gliding distance from shore." If you chose the shortest route and fly it at altitude (say 6500), you're in gliding distance of shore at all times.

Is there some other regulation that mandates a life vest for aircraft that aren't flown for hire?
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I was about to make the same point when I saw your post!

Even without a regulatory mandate though, when I flew to Catalina, I made sure I was high enough to stay within gliding distance of land.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
How come? I'm not objecting to your decision to use a life vest, but out of curiosity, why would the FAA guy have a field day?

FAR 91.205(a)(12) refers to flotation gear, but it only applies to "aircraft operated for hire over water."

It also only applies to flights where the aircraft is flown "beyond power-off gliding distance from shore." If you chose the shortest route and fly it at altitude (say 6500), you're in gliding distance of shore at all times.

Is there some other regulation that mandates a life vest for aircraft that aren't flown for hire?
Click to expand...

Thank you for that.

I fly to catalina a fair amount (enough to make the yearly membership worth it) and generally fly up the coast to make the crossing short. Also fly high enough to get good glide range, but none of that is required.
 
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