Scammed by insurance..

[JB1842]

Which two national insurance companies spend a gazillion bucks each year for saturation advertising, all along claiming the lowest premiums? How can they do that? Isn't it obvious?

They lie. A lot of insurance companies say they can get you a lower rate. Sometimes that means less coverage.

 

[Henning]

No such thing as an allision in any auto policy I've read (limited to Florida). As described, the OP had a collision, and he can consult the policy for confirmation.

Also, where's the bad faith? At most there's an Errors and Omissions claim against Geico's E&O carrier.​

Read the definition for collision, read the definition for allision. There is NO EXCLUSION IN THE POLICY FOR AN ALLISION. Insurance policies are INCLUSIVE, they need to specify exclusions. The key will lie in the wording of the Covered Perils of the policy.

This is about getting leverage on an insurance company trying to **** him. This is about making their lawyers think this one may be better to pay than deny. As soon as you have a toe hold on "Bad Faith", they quickly come to that conclusion. Buying you a new car is a bargain in comparison.

 

[RV10flyer]

Glad everyone is okay.

Add an OAT gauge if you don't already have one.

 

[Henning]

No such thing as an allision in any auto policy I've read (limited to Florida). As described, the OP had a collision, and he can consult the policy for confirmation.

Also, where's the bad faith? At most there's an Errors and Omissions claim against Geico's E&O carrier.​

Denial of the claim when you bought from them in of faith. As to the agent, that's why I asked if he bought through an agent or direct. I thought GIECO was a direct seller. If it went through an agent, recovering through their E&O is simpler indeed if they are agreeable. Unless there is a record of him declining collision coverage, the reasonable person standard would weigh heavily for the person believing that "comprehensive" is exactly that, comprehensive, including of collision. There are lots of duties toward consumer notification in insurance sales that need to be met. If he paid a premium beyond a liability premium and was not specifically informed that a collision (actually an allision) was not covered, he likely has this licked.

The reason to go Bad Faith if you can is you can get a really good lawyer on contingency.

 

[asechrest]

Read the definition for collision, read the definition for allision. There is NO EXCLUSION IN THE POLICY FOR AN ALLISION. Insurance policies are INCLUSIVE, they need to specify exclusions. The key will lie in the wording of the Covered Perils of the policy.

This is about getting leverage on an insurance company trying to **** him. This is about making their lawyers think this one may be better to pay than deny. As soon as you have a toe hold on "Bad Faith", they quickly come to that conclusion. Buying you a new car is a bargain in comparison.

I am obviously not privy to his Geico insurance policy but I am privy to lots of others. And in those that I have read, there is no such thing as an allision. And you're right, there is no exclusion for an allision. That's because an allision (I Googled the definition) is contemplated under an auto insurance policy's Collision Coverage, a coverage which he did not have.

Sample language:

A. We will pay for direct and accidental loss to your covered auto or any non-owned auto, including its equipment, any child safety seat in use in your covered auto or non-owned auto, minus any applicable deductible shown in the Declarations. We will pay for loss to your covered auto caused by:
1. Other than collision only if the Declarations indicate that Comprehensive Coverage is provided for that auto.
2. Collision only if the Declarations indicate that Collision Coverage is provided for that auto. If there is a loss to a non-owned auto, we will provide the broadest coverage applicable to any vehicle shown in the Declarations.
​

B. “Collision” means the upset of your covered auto or a non-owned auto or its impact with another vehicle or object.
“Comprehensive” means loss, other than collision, to your covered auto or a non-owned auto.
Losses caused by the following are not collision losses but are comprehensive losses:
Loss caused by missiles or falling objects; fire; theft or larceny; explosion or earthquake; windstorm; hail, water or flood; malicious mischief or vandalism; riot or civil commotion; contact with a bird or animal; or breakage of glass. If breakage of glass is caused by a collision, you may elect to have it considered a loss caused by collision.

​

The policy defines his incident as a collision.​

​

Denial of the claim when you bought from them in of faith. As to the agent, that's why I asked if he bought through an agent or direct. I thought GIECO was a direct seller. If it went through an agent, recovering through their E&O is simpler indeed if they are agreeable. Unless there is a record of him declining collision coverage, the reasonable person standard would weigh heavily for the person believing that "comprehensive" is exactly that, comprehensive, including of collision. There are lots of duties toward consumer notification in insurance sales that need to be met. If he paid a premium beyond a liability premium and was not specifically informed that a collision (actually an allision) was not covered, he likely has this licked.

The reason to go Bad Faith if you can is you can get a really good lawyer on contingency.

GEICO is a direct writer, but I'm confident they have E&O coverage. There is no bad faith here. I am sympathetic to the OP's cause, but Bad Faith is not his ticket.​

 

[Gerhardt]

Which is why I tell agents on a regular basis to delete the term "full coverage" from their vocabulary. Some people think of it as liability, collision and comp. To others, it includes the max. liability limits available, and to others it includes Med Pay, UM, UIM, etc. The definition of "full coverage" is what an insured wants AFTER a loss has occurred.

The OP wasn't scammed, I just think he wasn't aware of what coverage he was buying. Comp is cheap. Collision is not. And there's a reason for that.

The thing that jumped out at me was the OP stating that HE bought insurance for his fiancee's car. Some policies require that the vehicle being insured be owned by the named insured. I have no idea about GEICO, but it's something to look into before another loss occurs.

 

[comanchepilot]

No scam that I see here - price seems way low to include collision. . . .

Did you TELL him what risks you wanted to be covered for? This, unfortunately, seems like user error.

 

[201Driver]

I was laid up with a broken neck when I let my son use my truck. He ended up rapping it around a tree. I was so sick it was a month before I contacted Geico. They covered everything. The truck was a loss. I received a check. Never had a problem with Geico myself.

My son just had an accident with my truck that caused about $7000 in damages. Geico gave me no problem at all.

 

[denverpilot]

Which two national insurance companies spend a gazillion bucks each year for saturation advertising, all along claiming the lowest premiums? How can they do that? Isn't it obvious?

Best customer service and price so far was Liberty Mutual, but they do it by canceling anyone with an accident at renewal time. Wife hits things. Oh well.

Currently with another carrier that also carpet bombs the airwaves but to a slightly lesser extent than Geico. Honestly haven't seen too many Progressive commercials here in a while. Perhaps they took too many losses here. Don't know.

 

[N801BH]

Best customer service and price so far was Liberty Mutual, but they do it by canceling anyone with an accident at renewal time. Wife hits things. Oh well.

Currently with another carrier that also carpet bombs the airwaves but to a slightly lesser extent than Geico. Honestly haven't seen too many Progressive commercials here in a while. Perhaps they took too many losses here. Don't know.

Flo doesn't like hail.............

https://www.google.com/search?q=Flo...Fwatch-progressives-100th-ad-with-flo;394;480

 

[denverpilot]

Holy Screwed huge URL batman.

 

[James331]

Which is why I tell agents on a regular basis to delete the term "full coverage" from their vocabulary. Some people think of it as liability, collision and comp. To others, it includes the max. liability limits available, and to others it includes Med Pay, UM, UIM, etc. The definition of "full coverage" is what an insured wants AFTER a loss has occurred.

The OP wasn't scammed, I just think he wasn't aware of what coverage he was buying. Comp is cheap. Collision is not. And there's a reason for that.

The thing that jumped out at me was the OP stating that HE bought insurance for his fiancee's car. Some policies require that the vehicle being insured be owned by the named insured. I have no idea about GEICO, but it's something to look into before another loss occurs.

The price difference between the two was under $100.... Had I known I would have bought collision and told them to shove that comp where the sun don't shine.

 

[Henning]

Best customer service and price so far was Liberty Mutual, but they do it by canceling anyone with an accident at renewal time. Wife hits things. Oh well.

Currently with another carrier that also carpet bombs the airwaves but to a slightly lesser extent than Geico. Honestly haven't seen too many Progressive commercials here in a while. Perhaps they took too many losses here. Don't know.

Flo swats the lizard on airtime down here, that's for sure. Progressive advertises heavily in SoFla, I'd say Geico is #2 here. I just use USAA, the rate is always competitive and I have always found their service exemplary which is worth more than a few dollars at renewal time.

 

[asechrest]

The price difference between the two was under $100.... Had I known I would have bought collision and told them to shove that comp where the sun don't shine.

They may not allow collision without accompanying comprehensive. But why would you forgo comp when it protects against one of your stated concerns (incident with an animal) and is cheap by your own admission?

When you buy insurance over the phone or online, from a carrier that sells itself on "cheap!" and has no local presence, and you structure the conversation by saying you usually get liability only to save money, then in my experience you're likely to get the coverage your "body language" is asking for unless you happen to get a good agent that successfully talks you out of shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[denverpilot]

Flo swats the lizard on airtime down here, that's for sure. Progressive advertises heavily in SoFla, I'd say Geico is #2 here. I just use USAA, the rate is always competitive and I have always found their service exemplary which is worth more than a few dollars at renewal time.

USAA is excellent from everything I've heard. They're flogging the airways here. Must be going for the Springs kids as a new customer base.

Dad surprisingly never used them, so no family pass along here to use them.

 

[Luvrv8]

My wife is a State Farm agent. Usually her conversations end with "we will be sending you your policy, please read it and call with any questions you have". If they are in the office she hands them the policy and asks them to read it. Most of the answers you can think of are in the policy, my guess from listing to my wife is the majority don't read their policy. The term "full coverage" is not to be used by the employees in her office.

 

[denverpilot]

My wife is a State Farm agent. Usually her conversations end with "we will be sending you your policy, please read it and call with any questions you have". If they are in the office she hands them the policy and asks them to read it. Most of the answers you can think of are in the policy, my guess from listing to my wife is the majority don't read their policy. The term "full coverage" is not to be used by the employees in her office.

I won't read it in the office. It's like thirty pages of gobbledegook written by lawyers. I look at agents who ask me to sign on the spot like they've lost their damned mind and politely let them know I'll be taking it home to read. If they want me to sign in the office, they'd better send feedback up the chain to put a leash on the lawyers so it can be read by an average adult in less than an hour.

That said, after a while you catch the boilerplate and you're only skimming for the one-offs, which is what the lawyers do. Much of the stupid use of excessive language is defined by court cases setting president on things that don't go the insurance company's way, if not specifically addressed, and local law.

An hour of boredom at home in the easy chair reading the crap can save thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars later on. If you haven't got an hour, you're probably so busy making money that you can pay your attorney to review them. LOL. (Okay wishful thinking...)

You're literally buying that piece of paper. You'd better make sure it says what you want it to say before you sign and hand over money.

 

[Henning]

USAA is excellent from everything I've heard. They're flogging the airways here. Must be going for the Springs kids as a new customer base.

Dad surprisingly never used them, so no family pass along here to use them.

Have you tried? I believe his service record makes you eligible regardless.

 

[Henning]

I won't read it in the office. It's like thirty pages of gobbledegook written by lawyers. I look at agents who ask me to sign on the spot like they've lost their damned mind and politely let them know I'll be taking it home to read. If they want me to sign in the office, they'd better send feedback up the chain to put a leash on the lawyers so it can be read by an average adult in less than an hour.

That said, after a while you catch the boilerplate and you're only skimming for the one-offs, which is what the lawyers do. Much of the stupid use of excessive language is defined by court cases setting president on things that don't go the insurance company's way, if not specifically addressed, and local law.

An hour of boredom at home in the easy chair reading the crap can save thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars later on. If you haven't got an hour, you're probably so busy making money that you can pay your attorney to review them. LOL. (Okay wishful thinking...)

You're literally buying that piece of paper. You'd better make sure it says what you want it to say before you sign and hand over money.

It's actually not that bad, and most states, (ISO states they are all the same) they are pretty well organized. It really only takes about 15-20 minutes to read and review a policy completely, but most all your questions can be answered on the first page, the Declarations Page, of your policy.

 

[denverpilot]

Have you tried? I believe his service record makes you eligible regardless.

It doesn't. He had to be a member prior to his death, as far as I can tell.

Oh well... they're an excellent company, and I have no beef with them serving those who served us, at all...

I've still got a membership in an oil industry credit union and I haven't worked in oil in (oh lordy... I shouldn't count...) 22 or 23 years.

One of the oddities of credit unions... once you qualify to join, you don't have to remain qualified... of course, most CUs have opened up to virtually the entire general public by changing their eligibility rules to anyone living in a particular geographic area, etc...

The telecom and public utility/electrical credit unions here aren't limited at all to those two groups, anymore. Haven't been for a long time. And they're both highly competitive compared to the giant branch banks... which were also once illegal here... but haven't been for a long long time.

 

[Luvrv8]

I know with my wife she is happy to sit there and read it with her clients. It's a lot less headache when a person has a major claim if they know what coverage they have. She is working with 5 clients that have their house red tagged from the mudslide in Camarillo. The one client who just signed and walked away and never wanted to review their policy is the one that has been the most demanding. As she has told me it's better to sit down with clients at least one time a year to go over their policy then have them want to review it after a major claim. Since she is on the old contract with State Farm she does not have a quota, up sales are something she is against. Remember, your agent is the one that is servicing your policy, they can't make checks in the case of a big loss but they know who to call to plead the case. Find a agent willing to go to bat for you, not a quota filler, you pay your agent to represent you, find the one that will.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

The price difference between the two was under $100.... Had I known I would have bought collision and told them to shove that comp where the sun don't shine.

And then you would have looked like an ass, pardon my French.

Both collision and comp are products that cover certain losses.

Educate yourself on each coverage, tell them what you want to buy, and buy just that.

Oh, and read your policy.

 

[James331]

And then you would have looked like an ass, pardon my French.

Both collision and comp are products that cover certain losses.

Educate yourself on each coverage, tell them what you want to buy, and buy just that.

Oh, and read your policy.

How do you figure, comp is near useless where I live, and most anything that comp covers could easily slide over to collision.

I already said I should have checked into this before hand, however knowing what I know now who ever sold me that policy really isn't do a service to their customers.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Until you have purchased commercial insurance on an island in the Gulf of Mexico, you have no idea what a scam it all is. I've had three agents in five years, and finally seem to have found an honest one -- and she just laughs whenever I mention the similarities between her business and the Russian mafia.

I'm not surprised that you would be scammed on car insurance. Unless you watch EVERY single move they make, it is the nature of the beast.

 

[N801BH]

Until you have purchased commercial insurance on an island in the Gulf of Mexico, you have no idea what a scam it all is. I've had three agents in five years, and finally seem to have found an honest one -- and she just laughs whenever I mention the similarities between her business and the Russian mafia.

I'm not surprised that you would be scammed on car insurance. Unless you watch EVERY single move they make, it is the nature of the beast.

Amen Brother.....

That scenerio is the icing on a insurance agents cake,, And their 401K too...

 

[Henning]

I know with my wife she is happy to sit there and read it with her clients. It's a lot less headache when a person has a major claim if they know what coverage they have. She is working with 5 clients that have their house red tagged from the mudslide in Camarillo. The one client who just signed and walked away and never wanted to review their policy is the one that has been the most demanding. As she has told me it's better to sit down with clients at least one time a year to go over their policy then have them want to review it after a major claim. Since she is on the old contract with State Farm she does not have a quota, up sales are something she is against. Remember, your agent is the one that is servicing your policy, they can't make checks in the case of a big loss but they know who to call to plead the case. Find a agent willing to go to bat for you, not a quota filler, you pay your agent to represent you, find the one that will.

Your wife sounds like a good agent. It really is in her best interest to sit there and read it and explain it to them, it really doesn't take that long. As a CAT adjuster I used to do it all the time, and I was expected to settle 10 claims a day at the same time.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

How do you figure, comp is near useless where I live, and most anything that comp covers could easily slide over to collision.

No it doesn't. Comp and collision generally cover different risks.

HI already said I should have checked into this before hand, however knowing what I know now who ever sold me that policy really isn't do a service to their customers.

Yup. Again, they will sell you whatever you want to buy. It is in their best interest to sell you more insurance, not less.

If you had bought collision only and your car was stolen, would you have started the same scam thread?

Buying insurance is all about making decisions about how much risk exposure you are willing to have, at what cost.

Does your homeowners policy cover your car if your garage catches fire? Some do, some don't. Your collision surely doesn't.

Your choices.