Say It Ain't So Tiger!

When things like this happen, I'm amazed at two things.

1) That the people involved let it get to that point

2) That everyone else cares
 
Ted DuPuis said:
2) That everyone else cares
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I think the "caring" is because an image is shattered, and people don't like that.

I learned this the hard way when I did Amish Country Tours one summer when I was a teacher. I had to ride along with other Tour guides to learn the ropes. Half the time they were making stuff up. I asked one about that and he said, "The tourists what to hear what they already know -- don't confuse them with facts..."

I determined not to do the hustle, but answer as honestly as I knew based on research and what I knew about our Amish neighbors (Liz had NO secrets -- she would come over to our house to watch TV or tell janet how Jake's "Love is cold.." Oy)

You could feel the disappointment on the bus when I answered, "Sure the Amish have refrigerators -- they use gas engines to power them, the freezers, and the washing machines."

They had an image in thier heads, and were upset when it was contradicted.

Read Daniel Boorstin' The Image for the definitive work on this phenomenon.
 
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While anecdotal, a friend that helped arrange tournaments here informed me that when Tiger toured with his Dad, standard practice was for them to ask for working ladies while they were there. It could be parental guidance that put him here. Wonderful stuff, huh?

Best,

Dave
 
Today, Tiger posted on his web site that he is taking "an extended leave of absence from golf to work on his marrage and family." Tiger, a tip from me to you, once you walk where you have walked, socker games, Christmas recitales, and snuggling on the couch watching TV just ain't gonna cut it. Cut your losses, get single and stay there. Loose the clean cut image thing and contact Trojan, Viagra, and One A Day Multiple vitamins as your sponsors. Live the life man!
 
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A little known (and perhaps less cared-about) fact regarding the top PGA players is that many of them don't bank their checks from tournament winnings, they just send the cash to the IRS as tax withholding payments.

Their endorsement and corporate outing money is where their bread is buttered, and that's why Tiger is fighting so hard to protect himself from disqualification under the morals clause in those contracts.
 
dmccormack said:
The exposure is sudden. The activities occured over time and everyone covering it up is complicit in the fraud.
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We make the mistake of thinking that the rich and famous and talented must also be honest, and are frequently disappointed when we find out that they suffer the same temptations as the rest of humanity. The biggest difference between the poor and the rich is the ability of the rich to indulge in as much tomfoolery as they do.

That said, there are many rich and famous folks who are decent. They just don't make the headlines. I imagine they have work pretty hard to control their lives.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
We make the mistake of thinking that the rich and famous and talented must also be honest, and are frequently disappointed when we find out that they suffer the same temptations as the rest of humanity. The biggest difference between the poor and the rich is the ability of the rich to indulge in as much tomfoolery as they do.

That said, there are many rich and famous folks who are decent. They just don't make the headlines. I imagine they have work pretty hard to control their lives.

Dan
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Very true --temptation takes many forms. With enough wealth you can indulge and be protected from consequences -- for a while.
 
Dan Thomas said:
We make the mistake of thinking that the rich and famous and talented must also be honest, and are frequently disappointed when we find out that they suffer the same temptations as the rest of humanity. The biggest difference between the poor and the rich is the ability of the rich to indulge in as much tomfoolery as they do.
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While I agree with this, I don't know why it's any of our business if Tiger Woods has an affair or not. I don't think it's any of our business even if someone we really know has an affair, unless it's with our spouse or something. :dunno:
 
Well....doesn't it reflect upon his character? If he's lying about this, can we believe his score cards on the honor system and heaven knows what else? Golf has always been a bit on the honor system, unlike some other sports. It's why advertisers have moral clauses in contracts, and you can bet Tiger had legal representation when he negotiated those contracts.

I'm kinna tired of all this poor fella wasn't really his fault and none of our business stuff. We shouldn't dig into his private life, but there's more at stake here than affair stuff. The ladies in my neighborhood are really miffed at this fella. What a poor example, infidelity is never good; wouldn't if be wonderful for him to transmit some sexual disease to his wife. If he lies to the person closest to him; who else isn't getting the straight story?

Sorry, in my mind he made poor choices and should have to live with them. I don't agree with it all, but understand criminal charges are being investigated. Oh, the poor Wall Street guys that almost bankrupted the country. When to we quit tolerating this kind of thing? Let him grovel, try to make up with his spouse, pay some fines as he should and then, try to be the great golfer he can be with some moral standards.

Best,

Dave
 
wabower said:
A little known (and perhaps less cared-about) fact regarding the top PGA players is that many of them don't bank their checks from tournament winnings, they just send the cash to the IRS as tax withholding payments.

Their endorsement and corporate outing money is where their bread is buttered, and that's why Tiger is fighting so hard to protect himself from disqualification under the morals clause in those contracts.
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I wonder why no one cares about how much these guys make? I mean everone is mad that wall streeters for getting bonuses. Why not how much Tiger Woods or PGA member, or NFL players make?
 
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Geico266 said:
I wonder why no one cares about how much these guys make? I mean everone is mad that wallstreeters for getting bonuses. Why not how mych Tiger Woods or PGA member, or NFL players make?
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Tiger Woods and NFL players didn't get bailout money. I think it's insane how much they get paid to play a game but I guess that's the free market. I won't watch Tiger Woods any less than I did, which is zero, but I don't care what he makes or who he sleeps with.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
... I don't agree with it all, but understand criminal charges are being investigated.
....
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Just out of curiousity, what have you heard? I haven't followed this at all, but I'm curious as to what could be charged beyond some minor traffic crime Careless driving sounds like it would be the only category of charge applicable here.
 
Everskyward said:
Tiger Woods and NFL players didn't get bailout money. I think it's insane how much they get paid to play a game but I guess that's the free market. I won't watch Tiger Woods any less than I did, which is zero, but I don't care what he makes or who he sleeps with.
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I'm with Mari on this. Maybe if I actually cared about things that serve no value in society as much as some people do, I might care about what those who are overpaid to do such tasks do in their spare time.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Just out of curiousity, what have you heard? I haven't followed this at all, but I'm curious as to what could be charged beyond some minor traffic crime Careless driving sounds like it would be the only category of charge applicable here.
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Prostitution -- both sides -- is still illegal in most jurisdictions.
 
dmccormack said:
Prostitution -- both sides -- is still illegal in most jurisdictions.
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Like I said, I haven't been following this. Is there any actual evidence of it?

"Actual" defined as more than the word of a hooker.
 
Having spent a fair amount of time both working and playing with many of the PGA guys (both those on the tour and those with club jobs) it was always interesting to see how many battled the cards and other games, the booze or chasing the fur.

I assume that the rate of incidence isn't all that much different than the population as a whole, but it sure seemed like it.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Like I said, I haven't been following this. Is there any actual evidence of it?

"Actual" defined as more than the word of a hooker.
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Don't know David, that's just what was in the press: they reported an on-going investigation to see if charges were merited. Could see where this could get pretty sticky since it would be state laws that would apply and he seemed to be active in several. Can't see where Mama would be happy if charges were brought. Maybe he should get an armored car; or at least golf club proof.

Best,

Dave
 
Everskyward said:
Tiger Woods and NFL players didn't get bailout money. I think it's insane how much they get paid to play a game but I guess that's the free market. I won't watch Tiger Woods any less than I did, which is zero, but I don't care what he makes or who he sleeps with.
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That makes two of us.

I do feel bad for any kids that were using Tiger as a role model, though. But he's far from the first professional athlete to disappoint or disillusion young fans.


Trapper John
 
Everskyward said:
While I agree with this, I don't know why it's any of our business if Tiger Woods has an affair or not. I don't think it's any of our business even if someone we really know has an affair, unless it's with our spouse or something. :dunno:
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+1 - the promise he broke (if he even made it, I don't know) was to his spouse. It's between them.
 
Trapper John said:
I do feel bad for any kids that were using Tiger as a role model, though. But he's far from the first professional athlete to disappoint or disillusion young fans.
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I can't remember who I idolized as a child, but it certainly wasn't any athlete (of course I never have and never will be much of one myself).

Why not look up to someone who's actually done something for the world?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I can't remember who I idolized as a child, but it certainly wasn't any athlete (of course I never have and never will be much of one myself).

Why not look up to someone who's actually done something for the world?
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I doubt you'll find many boys under 12 that gravitate toward the Gandhi types, no matter how appropriate it may be. Back in my day it was baseball and football players. We had heated discussions about who was better, Bradshaw, Tarkenton or Namath...


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
I doubt you'll find many boys under 12 that gravitate toward the Gandhi types, no matter how appropriate it may be. Back in my day it was baseball and football players. We had heated discussions about who was better, Bradshaw, Tarkenton or Namath...
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It was that way in my day, too (which wasn't that long ago). I just never understood it.
 
wabower said:
A little known (and perhaps less cared-about) fact regarding the top PGA players is that many of them don't bank their checks from tournament winnings, they just send the cash to the IRS as tax withholding payments.

Their endorsement and corporate outing money is where their bread is buttered, and that's why Tiger is fighting so hard to protect himself from disqualification under the morals clause in those contracts.
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Actually I had heard the opposite. I heard that he banked all of his endorsement money and lived only off of his winnings as an incentive to keep playing well.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I can't remember who I idolized as a child, but it certainly wasn't any athlete (of course I never have and never will be much of one myself).

Why not look up to someone who's actually done something for the world?
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You're implication that athletes don't "do something for the world" with their money is short sighted in a lot of cases. Many of them help with inner-city causes and other charities. IMHO that is "doing something for the world".
 
kevin47881 said:
You're implication that athletes don't "do something for the world" with their money is short sighted in a lot of cases. Many of them help with inner-city causes and other charities. IMHO that is "doing something for the world".
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Sure, some do, and they should be commended for that. It's never been my impression that that's what many of them do with their spare time and efforts. But, I've never thought much of professional sports anyway, so I haven't paid much attention. Also, that's definitely not what the kids are looking up to or even seeing.
 
kevin47881 said:
You're implication that athletes don't "do something for the world" with their money is short sighted in a lot of cases. Many of them help with inner-city causes and other charities. IMHO that is "doing something for the world".
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I was on a SWA flight from BWI to Houston a few years ago. I heard folks in front of me speaking French so I excused myself and said I was happy to hear French, as I never get to practice. Soon we were all best buddies, yakking away in our native language.

I learned they were Hakeem Olajuwon's family heading to Houston for a benefit for Olajuwon's charity. On the flight there I learned about his efforts to build schools and hospitals in Nigeria.

Not every pro athlete has Olajuwon's class, but many, many do, and they keep it rather quiet intentionally.
 
TMetzinger said:
True, IF there are kids.
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....and friends, and siblings, and parents, and neighbors and classrooms and countless others we don't know take cues from our behavior.

As much as we like to imagine we are each independent atoms, the fact remains we are social creatures whose actions affect others, for good or for ill.
 
Some group conducted a survey of inner-city 4th graders, to determine their career goals/aspirations. The three highest vote-getters were basketball player, pimp and drug dealer. The results weren't surprising, since the monetary rewards from those professions are quite visible in the community. The troubling issue to those conducting the survey was that there was no distinction regarding the legality or societal impact among the three professions.
Ted DuPuis said:
Sure, some do, and they should be commended for that. It's never been my impression that that's what many of them do with their spare time and efforts. But, I've never thought much of professional sports anyway, so I haven't paid much attention. Also, that's definitely not what the kids are looking up to or even seeing.
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dmccormack said:
....and friends, and siblings, and parents, and neighbors and classrooms and countless others we don't know take cues from our behavior.

As much as we like to imagine we are each independent atoms, the fact remains we are social creatures whose actions affect others, for good or for ill.
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All of those folks choose how they're affected, and can choose what happens afterwards. Kids do not/cannot.

Again, absent children the only person who has the right to feel betrayed by infidelity is the spouse, and then only if that particular marriage had a promise of fidelity.

Other people may be upset/hurt/affected by the dissolution of a marriage. That doesn't give them rights or claims.
 
TMetzinger said:
All of those folks choose how they're affected, and can choose what happens afterwards. Kids do not/cannot.

Again, absent children the only person who has the right to feel betrayed by infidelity is the spouse, and then only if that particular marriage had a promise of fidelity.

Other people may be upset/hurt/affected by the dissolution of a marriage. That doesn't give them rights or claims.
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+1...
 
Trapper John said:
I doubt you'll find many boys under 12 that gravitate toward the Gandhi types, no matter how appropriate it may be. Back in my day it was baseball and football players. We had heated discussions about who was better, Bradshaw, Tarkenton or Namath...


Trapper John
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Kids are naturally impressed by the fast or strong or otherwise spectacular. They're far too young to know or understand the deep problems of this world and therefore have no understanding of the contributions of anyone like a Ghandi or Mandela. And far too many adults are still thinking like kids. Sports, sports, sports. What about the billions suffering under corrupt leaders? Or the serious threat of terrorism to practically everyone?

Dan
 
TMetzinger said:
All of those folks choose how they're affected, and can choose what happens afterwards. Kids do not/cannot.

Again, absent children the only person who has the right to feel betrayed by infidelity is the spouse, and then only if that particular marriage had a promise of fidelity.

Other people may be upset/hurt/affected by the dissolution of a marriage. That doesn't give them rights or claims.
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"Rights" and "Claims" are legal terms which aren't really applicable.

My point is simple -- Tiger's activities have affected more than his spouse and children, as he has quickly learned. His business relationships, his freindships, his metors, and his fans have all been affected.

We can pretend it don't mean a thing, but it just ain't so.
 
dmccormack said:
His business relationships, his freindships, his metors, and his fans have all been affected.
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With the exception of certain business relationships because we don't know what was in his contracts, that's only because they let themselves be affected.
 
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