Say Intentions?

flyingcheesehead said:
For flight following, I agree - Though rather than just a callsign or callsign plus the extraneous "request", I'd say "<Facility>, <callsign> request traffic advisories." That way if they're too busy they can say "unable" without needing an extra exchange.

I make this call often:

"Madison Approach, Diamond Star 569DS, Juneau, 4,500, landing with XRay." Gets the necessary information across as efficiently as possible. If I'm flying in (and call in as, you smartasses) the 182, I never get a request for further information. I have a couple of times in the DA40, usually a request for "Say aircraft type?" because we're the only Diamond Star based on the field, we haven't had that plane very long, and they're unfamiliar with it.

I do make sure to say it clearly and without going too fast at the beginning, which gives the controller a chance to pick up their pen while I'm still on "Madison Approach..." and take down the request. It may make people feel cool to rattle things off as quickly as they can, but better communication occurs when fewer words are used rather than less time per word - Speak at a moderate pace and get rid of the extraneous words.
Click to expand...

I've also gotten it when landing at the facility. So now it's just "(Facilty) (Callsign)" on the first one.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No it doesn't. "Request" tells them nothing.

"Metro Tower, Bugsmasher 1234A" tells the controller you want something and gives them the ability to respond based on his/her workload. "Request" wastes two syllables worth of frequency time.
Click to expand...

Hell, if syllable count rules, we should just say, "Breaker 19".
 
weilke said:
Sometimes you can even shave off more syllables if you use the standard reporting points that have those nifty flags on the sectional.
Click to expand...

An excellent point - My bolded example in the previous post uses it, though Juneau is an airport. I also frequently use the Lake Koshkonong reporting point. The ones on the west side, however, are all closer than I like to be when I make my initial call, so there I use mileages.

I tend to leave off the altitude at callup because I tend to be in my initial descent and by the time he gets around to give me a squawk the altitude would be meaningless. I throw in the altitude at the time I read back the squawk which avoids another conversation.
Click to expand...

Another good point.

EdFred said:
I don't even say miles.

"...Cherokee 3663Romeo, ten south, full stop Charlie."

I just knocked out 2 more syllables. ;)
Click to expand...

Heh... Now that you mention it, I generally don't say miles either.

EdFred said:
I've also gotten it when landing at the facility. So now it's just "(Facilty) (Callsign)" on the first one.
Click to expand...

Huh... I generally don't have any issues with it here or anywhere else... Maybe you should top mumbling. ;) (Or get a new headset and/or radios, I suppose...)
 
Trapper John said:
Maybe because you just want to transit the space, or maybe you want to land.

Why is it wrong to initiate contact with, "request" after our N-number?

Eventually, we'll be able to bat this crap around between the three remaining GA pilots and the two controllers. "Winning!", as Charlie Sheen might say.
Click to expand...

IMHO is conveys something already obvious but adds nothing. But you're right there is nothing WRONG with it. As long as folks don't babble and remember to listen for their call sign things get done.

What else is an internet forum for but giving you thoughts and beating things to death? Especially for those that think their the only RIGHT ones.
 
I prefer short version of the initial call for two reasons:
1. Controller may handle more then one freq or busy serving another request.
2. Hidden node effect. For example you are 10 miles north from the tower. Another aircraft is 10 miles south. Tower can hear both aircrafts but you don't hear another aircraft. With a long initial call chances to step on his transmission are higher.
Letting controller to manage communication will solve both those problems.
 
Nav8tor said:
...I think it can be done either way and each controller has their personal preference.
Click to expand...

And like with some aspects of my job one thing you can count on is whichever way you do it you're wrong. My CFI trained me to do the handsake call first.

There is (was?) a controller at DPA who used to reply back with to a "DuPage tower, Cessane nnn..." with a miffed, "Cessna NNNN SAY YOUR ENTIRE REQUEST!" ...so you learn to give a full informative initial call to DPA and then they ask you to repeat it. :dunno:
 
Tarheel Pilot said:
Ahh thanks for catching that! I usually say my altitude when I'm climbing or descending. :)
Click to expand...

Add "... Level, XXXX" to your repertoire. They still have to confirm your altitude if you aren't climbing or descending and it adds very little time to any transmission. ;)
 
eMKay said:
"Cessna NNNN requests different controller":loco:
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: LOL, that's funny.

Just to throw my two cents in for the OP, I generally cold call a tower (i.e. class D, no handoff) with the full request. If it's super busy I might just say tail number just so I can get a word in edgewise. That's pretty rare, though, in my experience.

Even with approach (for a bravo transition or the like) I usually give the full request.

Of course I forget tons of stuff, so the calls are short (just kidding..., mostly). :)
 
Everskyward said:
To the tower I have always given all the information at once unless it's an unusual request. To approach or center I would give the N-number only at first unless it was a handoff. However as others have stated, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. You just don't want to end up giving some long initial callup on a busy frequency which the controller may not be able to comprehend all at once.
Click to expand...

This is what I do as well. It seems to work well.

One thing I've noted is that a number of airports or sectors have their own little conventions. Kinda like the rest of society. In the South, one might say "Y'all go come back now y'hear?" In the North one might say "It was a pleasure having you in our home, please return again soon." In New York City, one might say "GET THE **** OUTTA HERE!" And they all mean the same thing.

If a controller gets miffed at you like that and it seems that he's the only one, then, well, he's the only one. Best to ignore it.
 
ATC exists to serve my needs, not the other way around...

If I am checking in and he is not expecting me I just give my tail number and wait for him to acknowledge me, then I say my intentions...
If I he is expecting me then I rattle off the whole smear at once knowing that he knows 90% of it already...

If the controller does not like the way I said it - it won't keep me awake that night...

denny-o
 
Dr. O said:
If I he is expecting me then I rattle off the whole smear at once knowing that he knows 90% of it already...
Click to expand...

What does the 10% that he doesn't know consist of? Why do you restate the 90% that he already knows?
 
roncachamp said:
What does the 10% that he doesn't know consist of? Why do you restate the 90% that he already knows?
Click to expand...

Because we are pilots and you are here to be our subservient peasants.
 
You guys have it all wrong - you need to get with the new generation.

The proper way too establish comms is this:

'Yeah, uh XYZ tower, this is Cessna 12345 in your grill, can I land on the beach????.....rojaaaaaahhhh!'
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is what I do as well. It seems to work well.

One thing I've noted is that a number of airports or sectors have their own little conventions. Kinda like the rest of society. In the South, one might say "Y'all go come back now y'hear?" In the North one might say "It was a pleasure having you in our home, please return again soon." In New York City, one might say "GET THE **** OUTTA HERE!" And they all mean the same thing.

If a controller gets miffed at you like that and it seems that he's the only one, then, well, he's the only one. Best to ignore it.
Click to expand...

I always get the "Cherokee contact Charlotte Departure on 128.32, Good Day." Around the Holidays, they may say Merry Christmas. I do remember after my first solo, as I was taxing off the Runway, the controller said "Congratulations".
 
If we're talkin' "goodbye" phrases, the two "famous" ones around here are...

- The DEN TRACON controller known as "Good Morning, Good Night" ... This guy said "Good Morning" to every new call-up, and "Good Night" when handing them off. Figure he was just hedging his bets on those days he'd pulled a double and had no idea whether the sun was up or down.

- The DEN TRACON controller who handed everyone off with, "Dandy Day!" He retired I believe, and the DANDD intersection was named in his honor.

Fun stuff.

Some of us old farts in Denver still remember "Ranch for the Right", when Stapleton was open. The hangar and tower of the long-defunct Sky Ranch airport was the typical handoff spot from DEN TRACON to the Tower when landing to the West at Stapleton. The hangar and tower are still standing. It's an industrial area now.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One thing I've noted is that a number of airports or sectors have their own little conventions. Kinda like the rest of society. In the South, one might say "Y'all go come back now y'hear?" In the North one might say "It was a pleasure having you in our home, please return again soon." In New York City, one might say "GET THE **** OUTTA HERE!" And they all mean the same thing.
Click to expand...

I could swear I actually heard a New York TRACON controller say 'Welcome to New York' this afternoon. I couldn't tell what the context was.
 
chucky said:
I could swear I actually heard a New York TRACON controller say 'Welcome to New York' this afternoon. I couldn't tell what the context was.
Click to expand...

Probably somebody mentioning Alaska .
 
chucky said:
I could swear I actually heard a New York TRACON controller say 'Welcome to New York' this afternoon. I couldn't tell what the context was.
Click to expand...

He was probably showing deference to and kissing the ring of the Godfather of the A380 "Family", worried that they'd beat up another poor defenseless CRJ. ;)

"You spin me right round baby, right round..." seems like it'd be a great theme song for that video...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top