Savings of Owner assisted maintenance

[txflyer]

His signature is worth something... get him a Christmas present.

For sure. I buy his lunch often. And Christmas he gets a card. I like to save money but I'm not a skinflint.....

Plus he get's all my annuals and any revenue business.....

 

[MIFlyer]

The ziploc bag is one method I use often.

However, for parts being removed over and over, such as my RH and LH upper and lower cowls, I have small yoghurt containers with snap on lids permanently labelled.

did you get the Nomad STC to make the cowls easier to service?

 

[MIFlyer]

If it is the gob of grease in the palm method, it isn't such a neat trick.

there's another way? that's how my uncle taught me to pack wheel bearings on my first car

 

[GlennAB1]

Plus he get's all my... revenue business.....

We call that non-routine maintenance.

 

[GRG55]

did you get the Nomad STC to make the cowls easier to service?

You bet! That was the first modification I did to the plane after buying it in 2012.
What a PITA those lower cowls are without it, especially the 9 bolts on each side up in the main gear wells. I pulled the cowls only twice before I had that mod done.

Like you, grease in the palm is how I've done bearings going back to my hot rod days back in '70s. Do the same on the plane.

btw, the closest airport to my Seattle office is Renton and the approach from the north over the Sound, Lake Washington and the Mercer bridge on a clear summer evening is one of those truly spectacular flights every time I do it!

 

[MIFlyer]

You bet! That was the first modification I did to the plane after buying it in 2012.
What a PITA those lower cowls are without it, especially the 9 bolts on each side up in the main gear wells. I pulled the cowls only twice before I had that mod done.

Like you, grease in the palm is how I've done bearings going back to my hot rod days back in '70s. Do the same on the plane.

btw, the closest airport to my Seattle office is Renton and the approach from the north over the Sound, Lake Washington and the Mercer bridge on a clear summer evening is one of those truly spectacular flights every time I do it!

you're literally flying over my house if you're flying the approach to 16. I live on the SE corner of Mercer Island. I would dearly love to take a look at your plane and buy you a beer when you're in town sometime. Renton is my airport.

 

[GRG55]

you're literally flying over my house if you're flying the approach to 16. I live on the SE corner of Mercer Island. I would dearly love to take a look at your plane and buy you a beer when you're in town sometime. Renton is my airport.

Not many people are all that interested in seeing an Aztec, LOL.
I usually park it at Pro-Flight. PM me and I'll send you my email. You might be the first PoAer I meet in person. Likely spring before I am back there with the plane.

 

[weirdjim]

I'm a $200/hour RF circuit design engineer with more work than I can keep up with. I once was an 85c an hour student technician. I bought a barebones C120 on that student budget and found a perfectly wonderful IA that taught me damn near everything I know about maintenance. His annuals were $25 (1970) if I did all the work. I later learned that he priced his annuals as he thought the owner could pay IF the owner did all the work

I owe that man. I still do $50 annuals for young college students that don't have two nickels to rub together. I do $200 annuals for anybody that wants to tear their airplane apart and learn. Yeah, I'm a teacher. And if anybody wants to learn from me, perhaps there will be some other IAs after me that will keep the cost of flying down to some reasonable number. And I **ain't** getting rich on annuals. And I ** don't** cut corners.

Jim

 

[donjohnston]

I still do $50 annuals for young college students that don't have two nickels to rub together. I do $200 annuals for anybody that wants to tear their airplane apart and learn. Yeah, I'm a teacher. And if anybody wants to learn from me, perhaps there will be some other IAs after me that will keep the cost of flying down to some reasonable number. And I **ain't** getting rich on annuals. And I ** don't** cut corners.
Jim

You sir, are a saint.

I bought your antenna design kit for my plane and you helped me build an external ADSB (in) antenna for my Stratus IIs.

If you ever find yourself in the Redneck Riviera, dinner is on me.

 

[cgrab]

I used to do the screws out, flip the panel and screws back in but I found that was actually extra work. Now I have a box with zip lock bags in it and every pre-labeled panel, with screws, goes into a pre-labeled bag and into the box. The screws come out once and go back in once. I don't have to avoid flapping panels as I walk under and inspect and protect the wings. I have labeled plastic boxes for the screws for the wingtips, fairings, cowls and interior.

Here's a tip: I use a plastic coffee can and I put all the round floor panels and buttons in it. I also have a 2x2 piece of stiff plastic that I can slide under the floor panels to lift them out.

 

[Paulie]

It is illegal for a IA to delegate a inspection. If you're signing off stuff that you didn't personally look at you are delegating the inspection. The only thing the owner should be assisting in is opening panels, ect.

 

[steingar]

To be honest, I don’t think anyone should wrench on airplanes to pinch pennies. Folks should wrench on airplanes because they want to wrench on airplanes.

 

[Timbeck2]

there's another way? that's how my uncle taught me to pack wheel bearings on my first car

Just pulled up the first picture I could find because I had Spruce open already. There are cheaper versions out there for sure. Less mess and wasted grease by using a packer.

 

[unsafervguy]

It is illegal for a IA to delegate a inspection. If you're signing off stuff that you didn't personally look at you are delegating the inspection. The only thing the owner should be assisting in is opening panels, ect.

thats true but a good portion of what is done on an annual is not inspection. cleaning and re-packing wheel bearings is not inspection, the only inspection part is looking at them once they have been cleaned. the actual inspection part does not take that long the rest is maintenance and that can be done by the owner as long as he/she is being supervised by an A&P.

bob

 

[Paulie]

If the inspection as you say doesn't actually take that long you're not getting a very good one. Maintenance has nothing to do with the inspection.

 

[GlennAB1]

Is panel close up part of the annual?

 

[GlennAB1]

thats true but a good portion of what is done on an annual is not inspection. cleaning and re-packing wheel bearings is not inspection, the only inspection part is looking at them once they have been cleaned. the actual inspection part does not take that long the rest is maintenance and that can be done by the owner as long as he/she is being supervised by an A&P.
bob

IA is required to inspect condition of wheel bearings. Part 43 Appendix D (e) (7)

Let's argue about who can disassemble and repack and reassemble them, or even if that's necessary.

 

[Paulie]

This thread is a great example why I don't do owner assisted annuals.

 

[GlennAB1]

This website is full of examples why I don't ever plan on working GA.

 

[GlennAB1]

This thread is a great example why I don't do owner assisted annuals.

You don't believe 43 D (e) (7) is open for interpretation, and simply shaking and spinning the wheel doesn't meet the inspection requirement?

Wheels are also required to be inspected for cracks and defects. Are wheels disassembled every annual?

 

[Paulie]

Again I'm so glad that I am allowed to choose which annuals to do. I never said that wheels shouldn't be inspected. Jeez.
I try to look at everything I possibly can during a annual, not just what's on the checklist. I'm not trying to nit pick but I try to keep the owner safe and apprised of any potential problems. Not really being big on doing repairs myself I'm not attempting to pad a bill. Besides my own planes the only annuals I do are friends aircraft.
My hangar neighbor has been getting $300 special, drive by annuals for years and I'm trying to get him to see the light. He's convinced his Cessna 172 is bullet proof and nothing can ever go bad. He's also a wealth of mis information. When I asked him what kind of fuel burn he was experiencing he said 12 - 13 gph. (180 hp carb) I asked him how aggressively he leaned and he said a instructor told him years ago to never lean his engine. I gave my opinion of this info and he thinks I'm nuts.
Hope everyone has a happy holiday. I'm out.

 

[Tom-D]

You don't believe 43 D (e) (7) is open for interpretation, and simply shaking and spinning the wheel doesn't meet the inspection requirement?

Wheels are also required to be inspected for cracks and defects. Are wheels disassembled every annual?

Please tell us where 43 D tells us how in depth the inspection must be

 

[GlennAB1]

Please tell us where 43 D tells us how in depth the inspection must be

That was the point. Where does it say wheel bearings must be removed, cleaned, inspected, re-lubed, reinstalled?

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[Tom-D]

That was the point. Where does it say wheel bearings must be removed, cleaned, inspected, re-lubed, reinstalled?

Merry Christmas!!!

Simply put it doesn't

 

[GlennAB1]

Simply put it doesn't

Just make sure you stick to your checklist.

 

[Tom-D]

I asked him how aggressively he leaned and he said a instructor told him years ago to never lean his engine. I gave my opinion of this info and he thinks I'm nuts.

This is so typical, a CFI with no experience in engine management, becomes the expert.

 

[Tom-D]

Simply put it doesn't

It does say :
(7) Wheels—for cracks, defects, and condition of bearings.

It does not dictate how they are to be inspected. or what defects are to be looked for.

 

[Isosceles]

a instructor told him years ago to never lean his engine.

Well, it makes perfect sense if he's always flying 75% of power of more (otherwise 172 is too slow) and never higher than 3500 (and it does take time to climb that high in 172!). As long as he leans on the ground

 

[GlennAB1]

It does say :
(7) Wheels—for cracks, defects, and condition of bearings.

It does not dictate how they are to be inspected. or what defects are to be looked for.

No kidding. We'll wait for someone that thinks the wheel bearings must be removed for that inspection, to comment.

 

[Tom-D]

No kidding. We'll wait for someone that thinks the wheel bearings must be removed for that inspection, to comment.

Does common sense play any part in this ?

 

[Paulie]

Well, it makes perfect sense if he's always flying 75% of power of more (otherwise 172 is too slow) and never higher than 3500 (and it does take time to climb that high in 172!). As long as he leans on the ground

He never leans at any time. He thinks the red knob is a on/off switch.

 

[GlennAB1]

Does common sense play any part in this ?

You tell me.

 

[GlennAB1]

That was the point. Where does it say wheel bearings must be removed, cleaned, inspected, re-lubed, reinstalled?

Simply put it doesn't

It does say :
(7) Wheels—for cracks, defects, and condition of bearings.
It does not dictate how they are to be inspected. or what defects are to be looked for.

But you and others have "more than suggested" that wheel bearing were required to be removed for annual inspection.
Examples:

That is the purpose of an annual inspection, to discover latent discrepancies.
FAA guidance says, if it requires entry in the maintenance records to return repairs to service it is not a part of the inspection.
maintenance and inspections can occur at the same time, but are the same.
the best example I have is wheel bearings, the disassembly, cleaning and re greasing, is a owner maintenance function, but inspecting them once per year is a annual requirement, done by a A&P-IA, so the owner can complete the work of removal cleaning etc, show them to the IA and both have complied with their responsibilities.

thats true but a good portion of what is done on an annual is not inspection. cleaning and re-packing wheel bearings is not inspection, the only inspection part is looking at them once they have been cleaned. the actual inspection part does not take that long the rest is maintenance and that can be done by the owner as long as he/she is being supervised by an A&P.bob

There are many parts of the aircraft that are required to be inspected at annual, without disassembly.

 

[Tom-D]

But you and others have "more than suggested" that wheel bearing were required to be removed for annual inspection

Where did I suggest that?

Common sense says that you are not going to see them unless they are. but common sense isn't regulation.

 

[GlennAB1]

Common sense says that you are not going to see them unless they are.

But...

It does not dictate how they are to be inspected. or what defects are to be looked for.

So, what says you have to see them? If you checked the wheel/axle for security/loosened and spin the wheel, observing for abnormalities, would that not be inspecting it? And any abnormalities would be on the list of discrepancies given the owner.

 

[GlennAB1]

Where did I suggest that?

I posted your quote from a previous thread.

 

[Paulie]

Where did I suggest that?

Common sense says that you are not going to see them unless they are. but common sense isn't regulation.

Not going to see the crankshaft bearings either, should I wear down the engine during the annual?

 

[Ravioli]

Off topic - but I saw an ad for an E-AB that had a knob labeled "Choke." I assume he mean mixture. But that on/off statement made me think of this.

 

[Dana]

Off topic - but I saw an ad for an E-AB that had a knob labeled "Choke." I assume he mean mixture.

If it had a 2-stroke or auto engine conversion, it may well have been a choke. The last two planes I had had chokes.

 

[Ravioli]

@Dana -- Thanks for that. It is a Viking engine which is a modified Honda. It is in a Van's RV-12 E-AB.

Glad I asked(?).