Satellite Shootdown

wsuffa

wsuffa

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Bill S.
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WSJ Online said:
WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon, under orders from President Bush, is planning to shoot down a broken spy satellite expected to hit the Earth in early March, the White House said Thursday.

U.S. officials said that the option preferred by the administration will be to fire a missile from a U.S. Navy cruiser, and shoot down the satellite before it enters Earth's atmosphere.

.....

"We are worried about something showing up on eBay," defense and intelligence expert John Pike said, adding that breaking up the satellite's pieces lessens the chance that sensitive U.S. technology could wind up in Chinese hands.
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Full link, but you probably have to be a subscriber to read it
 
smigaldi said:
As a former engineer on SDI programs....... :eek::eek::eek::eek::hairraise::hairraise::hairraise::hairraise:

But should be fun!!
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You ever see that episode of "The West Wing" where Leo is all excited about going into War Room and monitoring a shoot-down test and the President says, "Not again, Charlie Brown?"
 
mikea said:
You ever see that episode of "The West Wing" where Leo is all excited about going into War Room and monitoring a shoot-down test and the President says, "Not again, Charlie Brown?"
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Yep and it brings back some real memories too. I was working on SDI in the middle 80's. We would miss lots of stuff. At least I was working on directed energy stuff and not the kinetic weapons. So our stuff was really bleeding edge.
 
Didn't we get upset at the Chinese for the same thing? Something about space FOD?
 
From MSNBC.com

How the satellite shootdown would work
Key aspects of the plan for intercepting the broken spy satellite:
— A single missile, of a type known as the Standard Missile 3, would be launched from a Navy ship at sea. The missile was originally designed to intercept a ballistic missile in flight, not a spacecraft, so the missile and its associated software have been modified.
— Ideally, the missile will strike the satellite directly just before it re-enters Earth's atmosphere, breaking it into small pieces that will mostly fall through the atmosphere rather than become space debris.
— If the first shot misses, a second attempt may be made.
— A "window of opportunity" for hitting the satellite has been calculated to begin in three or four days. It could last as long as eight days. The Pentagon did not announce the exact date of an intercept attempt.
— The decision to proceed was made by President Bush.
— Diplomatic notice was sent to other countries.
— In 14 test flights, the Standard Missile 3 has achieved 12 intercepts, most recently in December.
— There are three Navy cruisers equipped with the missile.


From the AP


A key issue when China shot down its defunct weather satellite was that it created an enormous amount of space debris. "All of the debris from this encounter, as carefully designed as it is, will be down at most within weeks, and most of it will be down within the first couple of orbits afterward," said Jeffrey. "There's an enormous difference to spacefaring nations in ... those two things."
-Deputy National Security Adviser James Jeffrey

Pi1otguy said:
Didn't we get upset at the Chinese for the same thing? Something about space FOD?
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mikea said:
You ever see that episode of "The West Wing" where Leo is all excited about going into War Room and monitoring a shoot-down test and the President says, "Not again, Charlie Brown?"
Click to expand...

With The West Wing being one of my favorite shows of all time i remember it well. The president referred to Leo as Charlie Brown and the Pentagon as Lucy. After the missle missed it's target by a hundred and some miles the president looked at Leo and said something like "Those words you are looking for are Oh Good Grief".
 
Steve said:
— If the first shot misses, a second attempt may be made.
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Then what are we going to send up to shoot down the first shot? Or will we just let it end up in orbit somewhere? Sent the dog to get that cat that got the mouse that got...
 
Maverick said:
With The West Wing being one of my favorite shows of all time i remember it well. The president referred to Leo as Charlie Brown and the Pentagon as Lucy. After the missle missed it's target by a hundred and some miles the president looked at Leo and said something like "Those words you are looking for are Oh Good Grief".
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:rofl: I love that episode.
 
If they are really worried about the hydrazine fuel, why not use that to shoot it to the cosmos?

No, I do believe there is something on that satellite they don't want them to know about. Or, it's just a great opportunity to test the missle shoot down capabilities of that hit or miss program.
 
Richard said:
If they are really worried about the hydrazine fuel, why not use that to shoot it to the cosmos?
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They have lost the ability to control the satellite. But you are right about the hydrazine, while dangerous it is not that big of a deal.

Richard said:
No, I do believe there is something on that satellite they don't want them to know about. Or, it's just a great opportunity to test the missle shoot down capabilities of that hit or miss program.
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BINGO!
 
I think they ought to just catch that puppy with the shuttle and push it off into deep space... how hard can that be? I mean, c'mon. We could do that with Atari YEARS ago! PONG meets Asteroids, right?
 
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gkainz said:
I think they ought to just catch that puppy with the shuttle and push it off into deep space... how hard can that be? I mean, c'mon. We could do that with Atari YEARS ago! PONG meets Asteroids, right?
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They could do that if the shuttle could go anywhere near the altitudes of geosynchronous satellites. Early on NASA was forced to scale down the shuttle so it couldn't do the mission it was sold to do - launch and service satellites.

YeahIknow, the shuttle can carry a booster and has serviced some low orbit sats like Hubble. Those aren't the moneymakers, and you'll recall that the Hubble program was almost killed when they decided that going back to it was too dangerous for the shuttle crew.

Besides the shuttle crews probably don't have high enough security clearances to see what this one looks like.
 
My question is "is there a requirement for them to bring this action to public attention?"

In other words, why are they so chatty about it in the first place, if it's some super-secret spy satellite?

The conspiracy theorist side of my brain is whispering to me that this is intended as a "demonstration".
-harry
 
mantakos said:
My question is "is there a requirement for them to bring this action to public attention?"

In other words, why are they so chatty about it in the first place, if it's some super-secret spy satellite?

The conspiracy theorist side of my brain is whispering to me that this is intended as a "demonstration".
-harry
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Heyyyyyy...what happened to the international ban on weapons in space?
 
Frankly, if the shootdown works, it's a great deterrent with a plausible cover story. And they've done a good job of managing expectations too, stating that it's not likely to be successful.
 
mantakos said:
My question is "is there a requirement for them to bring this action to public attention?"

In other words, why are they so chatty about it in the first place, if it's some super-secret spy satellite?
-harry
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Hostile State A: Hey, the Americans launched an ICBM! Execute counter strike A1!

Its the same reason we give Pakistan warnings of our Tomahawk overflights even though leaks may allow OBL to skedaddle in before impact.
 
Did this just happen, by any chance? Some weird things happening in the tech world right now...
 
The publicity all came about due to "amateur" satellite watchers that have been tracking NROL-21/US193 since it was launched and predicted its orbit decay from early on. It was a secret that couldn't be kept secret.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/science/space/05spotters.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


mantakos said:
My question is "is there a requirement for them to bring this action to public attention?"

In other words, why are they so chatty about it in the first place, if it's some super-secret spy satellite?

The conspiracy theorist side of my brain is whispering to me that this is intended as a "demonstration".
-harry
Click to expand...
 
Latest news... $78 MILLION!?!? ARE THEY NUTS? There has to be something on that thing the gov't doesn't want someone to know about.
And didn't SPECTRE capture the Shuttle? Come on, it can't be THAT hard.
 
mikea said:
They could do that if the shuttle could go anywhere near the altitudes of geosynchronous satellites.
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Uhhh... This thing ain't anywhere near a geosync if it's about to fall out of the sky on its own. :no:

I think the reason they're not doing it with the shuttle is, well... It takes a bit more planning to get the shuttle up. From decision to planning to getting the bird into the VAB and subsequently out to the pad... The satellite would have long since come down on its own.
 
Even if the shuttle could capture it, it would be too big to fit into the shuttle. This thing was launched from a Titan rocket. The KH13's weigh over 20 tons!!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Uhhh... This thing ain't anywhere near a geosync if it's about to fall out of the sky on its own. :no:

I think the reason they're not doing it with the shuttle is, well... It takes a bit more planning to get the shuttle up. From decision to planning to getting the bird into the VAB and subsequently out to the pad... The satellite would have long since come down on its own.
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Um, isn't the shuttle up right now?:dunno: Of course, I can't see that it could be retasked anywhere near quickly enough.
 
gprellwitz said:
Um, isn't the shuttle up right now?:dunno: Of course, I can't see that it could be retasked anywhere near quickly enough.
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Grant... Yes, in a completely different orbit. I'm not sure how different, but I'd bet money that they'd have to land and relaunch to intercept the satellite in time. Getting a different shuttle up would be quicker.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Grant... Yes, in a completely different orbit. I'm not sure how different, but I'd bet money that they'd have to land and relaunch to intercept the satellite in time. Getting a different shuttle up would be quicker.
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Yeah, that's the retasking I was referring to.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Grant... Yes, in a completely different orbit. I'm not sure how different, but I'd bet money that they'd have to land and relaunch to intercept the satellite in time. Getting a different shuttle up would be quicker.
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Very true. The shuttle may not be carrying enough fuel to make the orbital transition. But again see the size of the satellite in question. It will not fit in the shuttle so the whole thing is moot.
 
smigaldi said:
Very true. The shuttle may not be carrying enough fuel to make the orbital transition. But again see the size of the satellite in question. It will not fit in the shuttle so the whole thing is moot.
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Nah. They just dock to it, grab on with the arm, attach a few pounds of C4, back away slowly while maintaining radio silence....
 
Latest news says they are waiting until Thursday to perform the shootdown. Gives the shuttle time to land.
 
Anyone betting on they miss?
021808klyde.jpg


I am thinking it may. Orbital rendezvous is hard. What is in favor of this one is the orbit of the sat is well known. But even then missing by a mere 100 feet would not do the job, this has to be a direct hit.
 
8/5501 (#5)special Notice .. Effective Immediately Until 0803092300 Utc. Aircraft Are Advised That A Potential Hazard May Occur Due To Reentry Of Satellite Usa-193 Debris Into The Earths Atmosphere. Further Notams Will Be Issued If More Information Becomes Available. In The Interest Of Flight Safety, It Is Critical That All Pilots/flight Crew Members Report Any Observed Falling Space Debris To The Appropriate Atc Facility To Include Position, Altitude, Time, And Direction Of Debris Observed. Wie Until Ufn
 
smigaldi said:
Anyone betting on they miss?


I am thinking it may. Orbital rendezvous is hard. What is in favor of this one is the orbit of the sat is well known. But even then missing by a mere 100 feet would not do the job, this has to be a direct hit.
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The missile is non-explosive high density and it uses infrared sensors to seek the target's heat, which this ain't got.

They "made a quick modification of the software" to make it work anyway.

Right. It'll prolly hit a smokestack or a 747 full of tourists.

Software modification:

was:
1020 While IR > background DO STEER TOWARD HIGH-IR

Now:
1020 REM While IR > background DO STEER TOWARD HIGH-IR

:D
 
I did a lot of research on the NMD (National Missile Defence) program during my days in debate during high school and college. It was a crock of **** back then and it's a crock of **** now. The only successful tests they had were when they knew the exact launch location, time, and trajectory of the target missile. Even then it failed more than 70% of the time, if memory serves. I don't think this one is going to be any more successful. They're just going to end up having another piece of space junk up there and a little more egg on their face.
 
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