Sandel 3308 display brightness

azure

azure

Final Approach
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azure
When I first bought my plane I loved the Sandel eHSI in it. And I still think it's a great instrument, but lately I'm not at all satisfied with the display brightness. It's readable enough in ordinary daylight and even in fairly direct sunlight, but in daytime IMC, especially near the tops, when light fills the cockpit from all angles, it gets washed out and hard to read. I haven't made up my mind whether it's getting worse but it seems like it must be, since I didn't have much of a problem in December. But then the sun angle was much lower, so I still can't be sure. That was my first time in IMC with the plane.

I've called my avionics guy and am still waiting to hear back from him. His first thought was that it cannot be a problem with the bulb aging, since they don't get dimmer with age, they just quit eventually (after several hundred hours). So he said he would call Sandel and get back with me, but a week later and he has yet to call. Does anyone here have experience working on these? Any ideas on what the problem could be, assuming it is actually getting dimmer? I've also noticed that my 480 display is not as bright as it used to be, but this is normal aging, according to Garmin AT. I started to think of avionics bus voltage as a possibility, but when my alternator failed a couple of years ago the Sandel spat out error messages but the display stayed the same brightness. The dimmer control I expect is a simple pot, not much to go wrong there.
 
azure said:
When I first bought my plane I loved the Sandel eHSI in it. And I still think it's a great instrument, but lately I'm not at all satisfied with the display brightness. It's readable enough in ordinary daylight and even in fairly direct sunlight, but in daytime IMC, especially near the tops, when light fills the cockpit from all angles, it gets washed out and hard to read. I haven't made up my mind whether it's getting worse but it seems like it must be, since I didn't have much of a problem in December. But then the sun angle was much lower, so I still can't be sure. That was my first time in IMC with the plane.

I've called my avionics guy and am still waiting to hear back from him. His first thought was that it cannot be a problem with the bulb aging, since they don't get dimmer with age, they just quit eventually (after several hundred hours). So he said he would call Sandel and get back with me, but a week later and he has yet to call. Does anyone here have experience working on these? Any ideas on what the problem could be, assuming it is actually getting dimmer? I've also noticed that my 480 display is not as bright as it used to be, but this is normal aging, according to Garmin AT. I started to think of avionics bus voltage as a possibility, but when my alternator failed a couple of years ago the Sandel spat out error messages but the display stayed the same brightness. The dimmer control I expect is a simple pot, not much to go wrong there.
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I also have a 3308 in the arrow and have had no issues with bulb intensity. I had about 300 hours on the last bulb before I opted to change it for pm reasons. Never dimmed it that entire time!. You might want to each out to Sandel and ask
them if there is any known issues with decreased bulb intensity.
 
CT Arrow said:
I also have a 3308 in the arrow and have had no issues with bulb intensity. I had about 300 hours on the last bulb before I opted to change it for pm reasons. Never dimmed it that entire time!. You might want to each out to Sandel and ask
them if there is any known issues with decreased bulb intensity.
Click to expand...
How easy is it for a lowly customer to reach tech support at Sandel? A certain other avionics company has given me enough nightmares that I usually leave the reaching out to my avionics tech. But it's beginning to look like I'll have to take the bull by the horns as he just doesn't return my calls.

If anyone knows of a good, RESPONSIVE avionics shop in SE MI, I'd appreciate a PM.
 
Do you have an original 3308 bulb or an aftermarket version which some say can lose brightness?
Do you have the brightness turned all the way up?
 
jnmeade said:
Do you have an original 3308 bulb or an aftermarket version which some say can lose brightness?
Do you have the brightness turned all the way up?
Click to expand...
Yes this is an aftermarket bulb, but my avionics guy knows this. Who says they can lose brightness? I was going to ask him to try a Sandel bulb for comparison, but from what he said, I expect he wouldn't think it should make a difference.

Yes the brightness is all the way up during the day; I dim it a little at night.
 
for a discussion of the Sandel bulb, query COPA, the Bonanza users group and the Cessna Pilots Association. You may have to pay on some of those sites. I think some will come up without paying. Some detailed discussions with various conclusions and recommendations, including exchanges about the legality of who changes what bulb.
 
Thanks -- but COPA could be either Canadian or Cirrus... not sure which, but both are pay-only, as is CPA.

Not sure which Bonanza users group you mean. I registered at Beechtalk as they have a good forum, and it appears to be free at least to read. Waiting for approval...

I finally got hold of my avionics guy today and will be having the unit bench tested probably tomorrow, as well as replacing the bulb (last replaced 02/12, recommended annually regardless of hours). He did mention the possibility of a faulty dimmer pot, but the bench test will answer that question very quickly. Sandel apparently recommended a $1.1 AMU SB that increases the brightness several fold. I hate to spend that kind of money on it, but if it makes it usable in bright IMC, it might be worth it. I did fail to notice when the OBS was 180 degrees off last month, due in part to the faintness of the display.
 
azure said:
How easy is it for a lowly customer to reach tech support at Sandel? A certain other avionics company has given me enough nightmares that I usually leave the reaching out to my avionics tech. But it's beginning to look like I'll have to take the bull by the horns as he just doesn't return my calls.

If anyone knows of a good, RESPONSIVE avionics shop in SE MI, I'd appreciate a PM.
Click to expand...

I have called Sandel a few times and received excellent tech support. Bypass your avionics guy and call them directly.....
 
CT Arrow said:
I have called Sandel a few times and received excellent tech support. Bypass your avionics guy and call them directly.....
Click to expand...
Good to know for the future, thanks. As I said in my last post, I finally reached my avionics guy and have a promise from him to give me priority. I plan to get over there tomorrow. I'll post an update when I know more.
 
It was the bulb. The dimness was obvious as soon as he put mine side by side on the bench with the shop's SN3308, which they bought years ago for use as a loaner. He swapped out the aftermarket bulb for a new Sandel bulb, reset the lamp life, and my display was equally as bright as his and I was only out $288 parts + labor.

Unlike so often in aviation, this time the parts cost was more than the labor, even with a discount on the bulb. They retail for $210 (hence the popularity of aftermarket bulbs).

I might get a chance Saturday to try it in IMC, which is where the old one was hardest to read. Flying back in bright sunlight today, I was able to dim the display slightly -- but the operative word is "slightly". I'm not at all impressed with the brilliance of the display even now. It's usable, but I was hoping for more. I guess that's why there is an aftermarket brightness mod for the SN3308. If it's still uncomfortably dim in the soup, I might consider springing for it.

Now if they could only do a mod for the bulb life... :rolleyes:
 
Glad it's fixed. I've always thought the Sandel displays were a tad or two less than wonderful, and would have upgraded the King Air if such had been available.
 
I understand the newer Sandels are based on a much superior display technology. I haven't really looked into the details though, since if I had that much money to spare on an upgrade I'd spring for an Aspen most likely.

The Sandels were a nice improvement over the analog type, KI-525 and such when they came out, but they're a little dated today. Mine came with the plane. Personally I'd feel a little uncomfortable relying on something like that with a failure mode that could leave me without a DG as well as a CDI, if I didn't have a GPS with a decent NAV display.
 
The Aspen is on order, so that should scratch my itch for a while. I'm also looking forward to the GPSS interface with the Stec.

azure said:
I understand the newer Sandels are based on a much superior display technology. I haven't really looked into the details though, since if I had that much money to spare on an upgrade I'd spring for an Aspen most likely.

The Sandels were a nice improvement over the analog type, KI-525 and such when they came out, but they're a little dated today. Mine came with the plane. Personally I'd feel a little uncomfortable relying on something like that with a failure mode that could leave me without a DG as well as a CDI, if I didn't have a GPS with a decent NAV display.
Click to expand...
 
azure said:
I understand the newer Sandels are based on a much superior display technology. I haven't really looked into the details though, since if I had that much money to spare on an upgrade I'd spring for an Aspen most likely.

The Sandels were a nice improvement over the analog type, KI-525 and such when they came out, but they're a little dated today. Mine came with the plane. Personally I'd feel a little uncomfortable relying on something like that with a failure mode that could leave me without a DG as well as a CDI, if I didn't have a GPS with a decent NAV display.
Click to expand...

That's what the Aspen is (not to mention losing the AI, although the cert requirements include a backup), and I flew the plane from Belize back to Ohio that way after the Aspen fried last December. The 530W definitely made that failure mode easier to deal with.

wabower said:
The Aspen is on order, so that should scratch my itch for a while. I'm also looking forward to the GPSS interface with the Stec.
Click to expand...

I've been a fan of it. Of course most of the time I don't use its functionality for anything special, but it is a lot of fun to watch it do teardrop entries into a hold all perfectly synchronized.
 
I agree that the 3308 is hard to read. You can declutter to some extent. Still, old eyes prefer bigger font, even though it is crisp it is still small.
 
azure said:
The Sandels were a nice improvement over the analog type, KI-525 and such when they came out, but they're a little dated today.
Click to expand...

Sandel is another company that missed the bus when it came to innovation. They could have been in Aspens market 10 years before Aspen came out.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's what the Aspen is (not to mention losing the AI, although the cert requirements include a backup),
Click to expand...
I know. I wasn't comparing the Sandel with the Aspen in that regard, but with the old analog HSIs where it was a little harder to render the entire instrument completely useless. (Though not impossible, as a flux gate failure resulting in a continually precessing compass card makes it pretty useless even if technically the CDI still gives you course guidance. This happened to a friend of mine over LM, flying IFR into PWK.)
 
The new SN3500 EHSI is superb, with an LED display which outclasses every other instrument I have ever seen.

I installed one in 2011 - report here.

Recently I had a chance to buy another SN3500 (and the SG102 AHRS gyro) at a very good price, and I will be putting that on the RHS, to create a usable "pilot panel".

The SG102 gyro is also a great product, which simplifies a lot of stuff because it outputs the heading as both XYZ/400Hz and ARINC429, so you can feed that into both the old stuff and the new stuff. I am bench testing it now - here.
 
I was able to pick up a used 3308 and install it into the Arrow. The previous owner updated to a 3500 due to additional inputs which he needed. I have no complaints on the 3308 and it's easy to see and use. The display can be decluttered by simply choosing another screen with a few button pushes.

I like the Aspen but it was not available at the time the 3308 was installed....
 
Yesterday I had a chance to fly in IMC a bit with the new bulb in the 3308. In VMC I had the display dimmed a little, and that level was adequate in the shadier clouds, but when things got bright near the edges of the soup, there was enough glare that I turned the Sandel brightness all the way up to get good readability. Now this was in cruise not on approach; when flying approaches you really need to be able to get needed information at a glance and I haven't really tested whether it's going to be good enough, but I suspect it will. My only issue is that it only takes a 10-20% reduction to force me to squint and examine the display closely to be sure I'm reading it correctly.

I don't use map mode on my Sandel because I don't subscribe to the nav database for it, so the waypoints are several years out of date. I use it as a traditional HSI plus RMI.
 
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