Sandel 3308 Auto Slew with GNS 480 (long)

azure

Final Approach
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
8,302
Location
Varmint Country
Display Name

Display name:
azure
I am trying to understand a feature of the Sandel 3308 that is only documented in a couple of places, and not very clearly as far as I can tell, which may be because the details are probably somewhat installation-dependent.

As documented, with Auto Slew set to on, the Sandel course pointer automatically rotates to the desired course direction in response to a signal sent by the "nav receiver", which is normally a GPS. As documented (again), this seems to be mostly of use when flying GPS approaches. This is a great convenience as you don't have to carefully note the desired course and manually twist the OBS knob. There is no documentation that I can find about whether auto slew works with VLOC-based approaches, and it definitely doesn't work with VOR approaches. However, I noticed long ago that it DOES indeed work with ILS and LOC (including LOC BC) approaches. It makes sense that it COULD do this once the inbound FAC is the current leg, since the GPS database contains information about the courses of most if not all published legs of the approach, and even displays them when the active flight plan is viewed in XPNDed mode. (However, this begs the question of why it doesn't work with VOR approaches.)

I could have sworn that this use was documented in the Sandel pilot's guide, but it is not (unless I've missed it). Like a fool I have been using this feature and relying on it. Well today I got bit. I was shooting approaches first at DET then at PTK, and picked up my clearance to PTK on the miss. I was first RV'd north then west and only punched in my flight plan once I was generally east of PTK. This I did using Direct - KPTK - Dest, dialed in the ILS 9R, EXEC'd the modified plan, switched the CDI output from GPS to NAV, and ID'd the localizer. I was very close to the FAC and was vectored north toward it, and only turned to join it when very close. It was extremely bright in the clag and my Sandel was a little dim; I fiddled a bit and made sure the brightness was up all the way. Then I noticed something strange. According to the display on the MFD, I was north of the localizer. The CDI showed that I was left of course, confirming (to me) that I had crossed it. So I turned to re-intercept it, only to find the CDI moving the wrong way. What was going on? I quickly checked the localizer ID and that the HSI was receiving the VLOC signal. Of course the problem was that the course pointer was still on a westbound heading (the display was dim enough that it wasn't obvious which end was the pointer) and auto slew was not working. I recovered quickly, manually turned the OBS and intercepted the localizer, but not before ATC called me up and asked if I was having trouble finding it. :redface:

So I'm hoping someone here knows more about this feature. This could have been a simple procedural error on my part. One possibility is that I switched the CDI output to NAV too early, before the inbound approach course was the current leg. But I have the feeling that I may have been using and even relying on an undocumented and thus unreliable feature. :redface:
 
Is there somewhere you can simulate your equipment and the operation of the Sandel unit?
 
There is a Windows-based 480 "simulator" with a 9-years out of date "database" and very few choices for customization, takes forever just to go a few miles. But it did help convince me that adding procedures to a D-> Dest "flight plan" really is handled differently than an ordinary flight plan.

The unit also has a "simulator mode" that you enter on power up with a magic incantation key combo. Unfortunately that is useless to me since I don't have an external power supply to use with it, and my airplane's avionics bus is off the circuit powered by the ground power connector.

BTW, and just to close out the thread (since I've posted this elsewhere), what happened on that flight is that D-> Dest to KPTK not only created a new flight plan, but also a leg PPOS -D-> KPTK. What I didn't know is that a direct-to leg like that, no matter when or how it's activated, is exempt from the 480's usual rule that the last leg of a flight plan is replaced by the approach. Thus EXECing (activating, in 430-speak) the approach did not automatically make the FAC outside the FAF the current leg, and the Sandel did not auto-slew. VTF would have avoided the problem. (So would taking the time to verify that the OBS pointer was set correctly; blindly trusting something you think you already understand, as I did, is clearly a recipe for disaster.)
 
I can't help with your question, but I'm just wondering if you've been replacing the bulb in your Sandel as frequently as is recommended. I mention this because you said the display was dim.

This model of the Sandel HSI requires that you install a new bulb yearly, or every 200 hours.
http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182525-1.html

The cost is somewhere around $200, but if you don't do it and the bulb fails, you won't see anything on the HSI. I suppose you could just dim the bulb to try to make it last longer, but then you might mess up when you don't see the arrow on the CDI or something like that.
 
Last edited:
Yes. Though the last two bulbs I've installed have been third-party bulbs (last time I'm doing that). But according to my avionics guy, if the bulb is lighting at all it's not the bulb. He's promised to call Sandel for advice and get back to me.
 
You can copy the databases off your regular 480 update into the sim directory to update the database. It's sometimes handy in the simulator mode to crank up the speed so things aren't so tedious to fly when testing things.
 
I can't help with your question, but I'm just wondering if you've been replacing the bulb in your Sandel as frequently as is recommended. I mention this because you said the display was dim.

This model of the Sandel HSI requires that you install a new bulb yearly, or every 200 hours.
http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182525-1.html

The cost is somewhere around $200, but if you don't do it and the bulb fails, you won't see anything on the HSI. I suppose you could just dim the bulb to try to make it last longer, but then you might mess up when you don't see the arrow on the CDI or something like that.

Time limited bulbs....now THAT'S funny
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
You can copy the databases off your regular 480 update into the sim directory to update the database.
I assume you mean the Windoze-based sim? Any way to crank up the speed on that?
It's sometimes handy in the simulator mode to crank up the speed so things aren't so tedious to fly when testing things.
Like I said, I can't use the 480 simulator mode AT ALL. Not without building or borrowing a power supply. Ground power to the airplane does not power the avionics bus. Battery Minder trickle charge is not enough to make up for the drain.
 
Yes, Press the FN button until the hot keys at the bottom read "ATK PPOS SPD" and press the SPD button. Works on the simulator as it does in simulate mode on the real unit.
 
Time limited bulbs....now THAT'S funny
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
No one said they were time limited. Sandel recommends regular replacement because IF the bulb fails, you are SOL. In fact they test the bulbs to well over the recommended 225 hours, I think to something on the plus side of 400. They want you to be proactive because that particular failure mode means you don't just have a precessing compass card or a flagged CDI, like with analog HSIs. You have a blank screen, no course guidance, no DG (unless you have a backup), NADA.

In my case, my avionics guy is pretty sure the bulb has nothing to do with the problem. According to him, the bulbs don't get dim with age, they work fine until they don't work at all.
 
Well in most installations, you still have the moving map on the GPS itself to fall back on and given GPSS autopilots it's more of an annoyance than anything else.
 
Well in most installations, you still have the moving map on the GPS itself to fall back on and given GPSS autopilots it's more of an annoyance than anything else.
Better than that, I have the NAV pages on the 480. ;)

But Sandel can't assume anything about the capabilities of your GPS. You might have something ancient, like a Trimble 2000.
 
No one said they were time limited. Sandel recommends regular replacement because IF the bulb fails, you are SOL. In fact they test the bulbs to well over the recommended 225 hours, I think to something on the plus side of 400. They want you to be proactive because that particular failure mode means you don't just have a precessing compass card or a flagged CDI, like with analog HSIs. You have a blank screen, no course guidance, no DG (unless you have a backup), NADA.

In my case, my avionics guy is pretty sure the bulb has nothing to do with the problem. According to him, the bulbs don't get dim with age, they work fine until they don't work at all.

I wasn't aware the bulb was a SPoF in that unit. I was thinking 'just carry a flashlight and replace when it goes out'.

Sorry I made light of it. Please forgive my ignorance.
I now see what it looks like.
 
Back
Top