San Antonio (5C1) to Taos, NM (KSKX)

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Ray F

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Ray F
Hey all, I'm new to the forum. I'm a 30+hr ppl student. Anyway, when I finish up my ppl, one of the longer xc's that I'm going to want to tackle is 5C1 to KSKX. Me and my family like to ski and snowboard so this seems like a good spot to fly to. Reviews of the fbo are good, but I'm curious if anyone has flown in to there from my area or somewhere close by. And if so how was the flight? I know I'll be flying over lots of oil country but are there any surprises along the way? Thanks
 
Haven't flown the route from Texas, others here can provide a great deal of info about following I-20/I-10 and the hills in west Texas.

What type of airplane will you be flying?

You've got two major routes - NW thru Lubbock or Midland-Hobbs-Roswell. No matter your route there's major MOAs. With the Midland-Hobbs-Roswell route, you can stay at 6500 until Roswell. After that it's 8500 CNX-OTO-SAF-E14-SKX. No need for O2 unless you're not comfortable. Check when the MOAs are active - many of them are cold on the weekends. You're legal to fly thru the MOAs but be really careful.

Surprises? Only the cost of fuel.

Once you get to New Mexico, plan your flight coming up the valley from Sante Fe, do not try to fly over the mountains.
 
Plan your trip to Santa Fe and then fly up the valley to Taos if WX permits. If not, stop at SAF and drive the rest of the way. Terrain around the airport appears to be flat but it's tricky. Don't get suckered into flying lower than you should.



Ray F said:
Hey all, I'm new to the forum. I'm a 30+hr ppl student. Anyway, when I finish up my ppl, one of the longer xc's that I'm going to want to tackle is 5C1 to KSKX. Me and my family like to ski and snowboard so this seems like a good spot to fly to. Reviews of the fbo are good, but I'm curious if anyone has flown in to there from my area or somewhere close by. And if so how was the flight? I know I'll be flying over lots of oil country but are there any surprises along the way? Thanks
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The first 600 miles is pretty boring. You'll go over plenty of dry, dusty west TX stuff. The last 100 miles is more interesting as the land begins to rise. I plan direct to KSKX and use SAF as an alternate. You're going to have some wave action as you get closer to the mtns. Fly just south of Angel Fire, and plan to go through the pass where the highway is.

There are several decent books on mtn flying, maybe have a look at one of those.
 
I've done several flights to NM in the 5C1 aircraft (I'm an instructor there) and would be happy to discuss it with you further.

Ryan
 
docmirror said:
The first 600 miles is pretty boring. You'll go over plenty of dry, dusty west TX stuff. The last 100 miles is more interesting as the land begins to rise. I plan direct to KSKX and use SAF as an alternate. You're going to have some wave action as you get closer to the mtns. Fly just south of Angel Fire, and plan to go through the pass where the highway is.

There are several decent books on mtn flying, maybe have a look at one of those.
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So you're suggesting a new pilot with no mountain training thru the pass between Angel Fire and Taos? And there's still no information on the type of airplane, how many people, etc.

Sorry but book larning just won't be enough.
 
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murphey said:
So you're suggesting a new pilot with no mountain training thru the pass between Angel Fire and Taos? And there's still no information on the type of airplane, how many people, etc.

Sorry but book larning just won't be enough.
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Yup. Once he gets the ticket, it's a license to learn. If he flies on sunny Sat from homedrome to get a burger and back, there's not much learning. He wants to go to Taos, then go to Taos. I did it, others did it. He's asking questions, which is a good start.
 
docmirror said:
Yup. Once he gets the ticket, it's a license to learn. If he flies on sunny Sat from homedrome to get a burger and back, there's not much learning. He wants to go to Taos, then go to Taos. I did it, others did it. He's asking questions, which is a good start.
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It's a start and it may be enough or it may not. Lots of aluminum scattered about on the front range of the Rockies. Not sayin' the OP would end up there at all. Just pointing out the obvious. If it's a clear, calm day then flying in the hills can be a piece of cake. Change the weather just a bit and watch out.

My first trip to SAF the mountain wave was impressive over Las Vegas, NM. I'd read enough to expect it based on reported/forecast conditions. I was in the next CPA mountain flying class and took a mountain check-out with an instructor I knew quite well. Yup, it cost a few $$$...so what. I'm no great shakes in the hills but I know enough to (and have equipment capable of) go high or scrub when conditions are outside 30/30 (thirty knots/30 miles). Ya gotta learn the rules if ya wanna be comfortable over the hills.

Anyway, to the OP: plan the flight, learn the rules of mountain flying. Stop in Raton and get some mountain training (good people at Raton). Enjoy the trip. Be willing to rent a car to finish the trip (really that applies to all flights).
 
murphey said:
So you're suggesting a new pilot with no mountain training thru the pass between Angel Fire and Taos? And there's still no information on the type of airplane, how many people, etc.
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My first flight through the pass from Angel Fire to Taos ended with me taking the wrong canyon and ending at the Pueblo, overflight of which is prohibited. I had to turn sharp and hope nobody had binoculars. Later my mountain instructor said that everyone makes that mistake at first. Other than the navigation, it was not challenging in any way. Even penetrating La Veta was more interesting.

Unlike flying over it, landing at Angel Fire is a good excercise. It is high, there is terrain, and often there is a cross-wind. My FBO does not even let students fly there solo, as if PP ticket confers magical skills :)

I found that much ado about those passes is created by people attempting to fly them in bad weather. Once the overcast presses you into the actual canyon, you are in big trouble. One wrong turn and it's curtains -- and it was proven a few times, about which Nate loves to carp.

Obviously, if can't see where you're flying, go to through Santa Fe. Duh.

P.S. Don't forget to start lean (unless you're on Rotax).
 
Clark1961 said:
It's a start and it may be enough or it may not.
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If you're looking for guarantees, you're in the wrong hobby/job. GA is not for the feint of heart. Some people screw up, most don't. The OP wants to fly to Taos. Who am I, or you to tell him otherwise? Maybe we should put CO and NM off limits to GA?
 
docmirror said:
If you're looking for guarantees, you're in the wrong hobby/job. GA is not for the feint of heart. Some people screw up, most don't. The OP wants to fly to Taos. Who am I, or you to tell him otherwise? Maybe we should put CO and NM off limits to GA?
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Look carefully. Didn't tell him otherwise. Did suggest a path with training. So you disagree. So you say no to training. Fine, your call for you...not for me. All I do is live and fly in the hills. No biggie.
 
zaitcev said:
My first flight through the pass from Angel Fire to Taos ended with me taking the wrong canyon and ending at the Pueblo, overflight of which is prohibited.
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Do you have a reference for the bolded part?
 
Clark1961 said:
Look carefully. Didn't tell him otherwise. Did suggest a path with training. So you disagree. So you say no to training. Fine, your call for you...not for me. All I do is live and fly in the hills. No biggie.
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I think you should look more carefully. Find where I say no to training. Start at my first post on this subject. Carefully...

P.S. I've got a house at 8200'. I fly in and out of the local dirt strip sometimes. Not an expert, but I've been there and done that. More than once.
 
docmirror said:
If you're looking for guarantees, you're in the wrong hobby/job. GA is not for the feint of heart. Some people screw up, most don't. The OP wants to fly to Taos. Who am I, or you to tell him otherwise? Maybe we should put CO and NM off limits to GA?
Click to expand...

No one said don't go. But both Clark & I suggested reasonable alternatives for a new pilot not familiar with mountains.
 
docmirror said:
Do you have a reference for the bolded part?
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RE: the Pueblo

Sure. Go look at the ABQ sectional. Those little dots inside the solid line with the words "World Heritage Site" and the blue box with the statement "Due to national welfare pilots are requested to avoid flights below 2000' AGL over the Taos World Heritage Site and the Blue Lake Wilderness Area. Note: The minimum alt over the Taos Pueblo is 9300' MSL"
 
murphey said:
No one said don't go. But both Clark & I suggested reasonable alternatives for a new pilot not familiar with mountains.
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Well, as long as it was reasonable. I don't think I was the one that started the quoting and snarky, but I can play quote and snark if needed.

The OP asked about surprises along the way. You'all want to be mommy. Like I said, might as well put CO and NM off limits to GA.

I'm done here.:mad2:
 
murphey said:
RE: the Pueblo

Sure. Go look at the ABQ sectional. Those little dots inside the solid line with the words "World Heritage Site" and the blue box with the statement "Due to national welfare pilots are requested to avoid flights below 2000' AGL over the Taos World Heritage Site and the Blue Lake Wilderness Area. Note: The minimum alt over the Taos Pueblo is 9300' MSL"
Click to expand...

Requested <> Prohibited.

Jeezalou, learn pilotage and navigation please.

And now I'm done here. :mad2:
 
RyanShort1 said:
I've done several flights to NM in the 5C1 aircraft (I'm an instructor there) and would be happy to discuss it with you further.

Ryan
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As someone familiar with both the route and aircraft the OP will be using (which is what?) care to join in? Another point of view is always a good learning experience.
 
docmirror said:
Well, as long as it was reasonable. I don't think I was the one that started the quoting and snarky, but I can play quote and snark if needed.

The OP asked about surprises along the way. You'all want to be mommy. Like I said, might as well put CO and NM off limits to GA.

I'm done here.:mad2:
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Snarky. That's a great word! Definitely adding it to my vocabulary.

I think we need a new rule for the Admins to enforce - no one will say anything about mountain flying in the Rockies, but will keep Nate and the crew on standby for the search & recovery.
 
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murphey said:
Snarky. That's a great word! Definitely adding it to my vocabulary.

I think we need a new rule for the Admins to enforce - no one will say anything about mountain flying in the Rockies, but will keep Nate and the crew on standby for the search & recovery.
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I'll just be running radios... still not bothered to check out in anything AF owned. ;) Been too busy bride in silly Comm stuff.
 
docmirror said:
I think you should look more carefully. Find where I say no to training. Start at my first post on this subject. Carefully...

P.S. I've got a house at 8200'. I fly in and out of the local dirt strip sometimes. Not an expert, but I've been there and done that. More than once.
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So where exactly did you suggest training? I must be missing it.
 
Hey guys wow, I didn't expect to cause such a stir. This flight is still a ways off and it's not like I'm gonna do it the day after I get my certificate. It's just one of the flights that I know I'm gonna want to do eventually. Studying mountain flying and training will def be in there somewhere.

Oh the plane is a 180hp 172. They also have a C210H that I'd like to use once I'm high perf/complex endorsed.
 
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RyanShort1 said:
I've done several flights to NM in the 5C1 aircraft (I'm an instructor there) and would be happy to discuss it with you further.

Ryan
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Hey thanks man, yeah I'll definitely like to talk to you about that. It's also cool to see there's a couple guys from my home field on this forum.

starsfan18 said:
Hi Ray,

Are you training at 5C1? I just started renting there last month.
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Yeah, Been training there for a while now, can only fly on weekends so it's taking me some time.
 
Hey Ray, I think you are better off in one of the 180hp 172s.
 
Good flying weather and good skiing weather are incompatible.
This is usually the scenario that bites the 40 year old surgeon who finally can afford a plane after 24 years of education and deferred gratification and HAS to get there.

Get the mountain training and pile on some hours of instrument training before you risk your families life by trying flights on a fixed schedule you are not yet competent to do.

I am vastly older than you, with a twin and decades of instrument experience. We are going to the mountains of Northern New York state for Thanksgiving week. How are we going?
We are driving because I am hauling grandchildren who have to be here and there on certain dates. I know from experience there will be snow and ice over those mountains - and almost always on the days you NEED to fly. I will not risk their lives like that.
 
Ray F said:
Why is that?
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Maybe he knows that airplane, and in fact it may be the one that sprung the oil leak on him :) Aren't you guys both from Central Texas? Same field?
 
zaitcev said:
Maybe he knows that airplane, and in fact it may be the one that sprung the oil leak on him :) Aren't you guys both from Central Texas? Same field?
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We're both from Texas but not the same airfield. He's a couple hours away. I just would like to know specifically why he'd choose the 172 over the 210.
 
Dr. O said:
Good flying weather and good skiing weather are incompatible.
This is usually the scenario that bites the 40 year old surgeon who finally can afford a plane after 24 years of education and deferred gratification and HAS to get there.

Get the mountain training and pile on some hours of instrument training before you risk your families life by trying flights on a fixed schedule you are not yet competent to do.

I am vastly older than you, with a twin and decades of instrument experience. We are going to the mountains of Northern New York state for Thanksgiving week. How are we going?
We are driving because I am hauling grandchildren who have to be here and there on certain dates. I know from experience there will be snow and ice over those mountains - and almost always on the days you NEED to fly. I will not risk their lives like that.
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Yeah I hear what you're saying. I'd def need a lot more seat time and some mountain training and experience before going on that trip. That's just one of the specific xc's I'd like to do eventually. Probably do the trip with my brother or a friend before taking the fam.
 
Dr. O said:
Good flying weather and good skiing weather are incompatible.
This is usually the scenario that bites the 40 year old surgeon who finally can afford a plane after 24 years of education and deferred gratification and HAS to get there.

Get the mountain training and pile on some hours of instrument training before you risk your families life by trying flights on a fixed schedule you are not yet competent to do.

I am vastly older than you, with a twin and decades of instrument experience. We are going to the mountains of Northern New York state for Thanksgiving week. How are we going?
We are driving because I am hauling grandchildren who have to be here and there on certain dates. I know from experience there will be snow and ice over those mountains - and almost always on the days you NEED to fly. I will not risk their lives like that.
Click to expand...

Denny Denny Denny...you've just run the risk of being declared Snarky by He Who Shall Not Be Named.
 
Dr. O said:
Good flying weather and good skiing weather are incompatible.
Click to expand...

Not always. The best skiing in the Rockies is night-time snow storms with clear, sunny, fanstastic days. Even IFR is not always a good idea. If it really is IMC out here in the winter, the probability for icing is very high and your option of driving is the best and only one.

If the OP is bringing a family (2 adults, 1 child) the 180 hp 172 is not an unreasonable choice. But anything more than that the 210 is the better aircraft. As always, the real key is the Clint Eastwood quote "A man's got to know his limitations" and let's add the caveat - always have options planned in advance.
 
Ray F said:
We're both from Texas but not the same airfield. He's a couple hours away. I just would like to know specifically why he'd choose the 172 over the 210.
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I've flown that specific 210 and just take my advice, stay away from it. I'm in Boerne alot, I get all of my maintenance done out there. If you want to know why it's been grounded recently, just send me a PM.

N734WN is more than adequate for that trip.
 
I think the average amount of hours before a pilot has an issue in that airplane is less than 10. Usually it's just a minor gear malfunction (playing with the switch usually resolves it)

In my case, I got doused with hydraulic mist that burned my eyes, nose, face, and throat, and the hydraulic pump made the panel so hot I took some of the skin off of my hand trying to manually pump the gear down.

If you ever get in that airplane and wonder why the seats are weird feeling and it smells like hydraulic oil, I'm the reason. I'm also the one who turned the checklist red with hydraulic fluid.
 
DavidWhite said:
If you ever get in that airplane and wonder why the seats are weird feeling and it smells like hydraulic oil, I'm the reason. I'm also the one who turned the checklist red with hydraulic fluid.
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I'm thinking its either the plane's fault or the operator's fault and you just happened to be the pilot flying when it had that gear related problem.

Unless you got bored and just started cycling the gear up and down till it overheated. gear goes up, gear goes down. gear goes up, gear goes down, gear goes up, gear goes down, gear goes up, plane fills with smoke.
 
dell30rb said:
I'm thinking its either the plane's fault or the operator's fault and you just happened to be the pilot flying when it had that gear related problem.

Unless you got bored and just started cycling the gear up and down till it overheated. gear goes up, gear goes down. gear goes up, gear goes down, gear goes up, gear goes down, gear goes up, plane fills with smoke.
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One of my friends had warned me about that airplane before I started flying it, I wish I would have listened. I'm just passing on some info - but I suggest be heeds my advice.
 
It is possible to go over the mountains and with prudence and planning it can be a neat trip. On the other hand I've spent a goodly amount of time searching the mountains in that area for those who failed the mountain flying test. Remember the clouds have rocks in them, 4 people in a 172 with full fuel is a dangerous thing to head over the Sangre de Cristo's and high altitude does strange things to the eyesight. Its also a pretty ride up the valley from santa fe to Taos so that alternative is a good choice too. Get some mountain flying instruction and it will help a lot.


Frank
 
DavidWhite said:
I've flown that specific 210 and just take my advice, stay away from it. I'm in Boerne alot, I get all of my maintenance done out there. If you want to know why it's been grounded recently, just send me a PM.

N734WN is more than adequate for that trip.
Click to expand...
OTOH I've taken that plane into NM to a strip at 7K elevation with no issues or squawks and it did just fine.

Ryan
 
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