Sale of port rights to UAE?

[Bill]

Anyone else steamed that Bush is fevrent on selling port control interests to a company from the UAE? I think it is a blatant slap in the face to all the families who have lost children to this war. What say you?

I'm republican, voted for Bush, but I have to say now, the man is an arse.

 

[Frank Browne]

Anyone else steamed that Bush is feverant on selling port control interests to a company from the UAE? I think it is a blatant slap in the face to all the families who have lost children to this war. What say you?

I'm republican, voted for Bush, but I have to say now, the man is an arse.

My sentiments exactly Bill. For the life of me I don't understand the logic here. I think Bush is shooting himself in the foot with his refusal to back off on this issue. I voted for the man twice and I believe he is making a big mistake.

 

[Bill]

Somehow the system sent two posts, one with the poll, one without. If you can, please put the responses under the poll. Thanks!

 

[Greebo]

Duplicate threads consolidated.

 

[Bill]

Duplicate threads consolidated.

Chuck, you ARE the man! My bad (somehow?).

 

[Henning]

Anyone else steamed that Bush is fevrent on selling port control interests to a company from the UAE? I think it is a blatant slap in the face to all the families who have lost children to this war. What say you?

I'm republican, voted for Bush, but I have to say now, the man is an arse.

Glad ya finally caught on, I knew he was an arse when he was Gov of Texas. Didn't get anything done there that worked out, hasn't done much in the oval office that has worked out either. He's a nice guy but not too bright and he's getting bad advice and orders.

 

[Greebo]

Baltimore is pretty much in shock over the idea. Mayor O'Malley (D) and Governor Erhlich (R) finally have a single issue on which they agree, and the rest of the state is behind them.

United States Port controls should remain INSIDE the United States. What concerns me is, they already weren't - its a London based company that's selling the control!

The whole State is up in arms about this one...

 

[Bill]

Glad ya finally caught on,

Caught on a good while ago, this was just the last straw in the camel's back, I just had to say SOMETHING. Is it possible he may go donw in history as one of the worst Presidents? Hmmm, maybe another poll?

 

[ScottM]

My sentiments exactly Bill. For the life of me I don't understand the logic here. I think Bush is shooting himself in the foot with his refusal to back off on this issue. I voted for the man twice and I believe he is making a big mistake.

Frank not singling you out by quoting, just want to illustrate a point and raise a question.


Was not one of the great attractions for those that voted for GW Bush in the last election his tenacious attitudes and unwavering commitment to an idea once a decision was made? In other words this is the behavior that many thought was a positive when they elected the man, correct?

 

[wbarnhill]

Got this odd gut feeling that Bush would rather America be a monarchy.

Seriously, telling the nation he'll veto anything that tries to stop this deal? Isn't that going against the will of the people?

 

[ScottM]

Got this odd gut feeling that Bush would rather America be a monarchy.

Seriously, telling the nation he'll veto anything that tries to stop this deal? Isn't that going against the will of the people?

he has threatened that before but has never used his veto. See my previous note about that behaviour.

 

[woodstock]

I don't understand the logic, not to do it in the first place and not his stubborn refusal to back down.

 

[Anthony]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

 

[SCCutler]

It has been said that the President could never find the ink for his veto pen; amazing if this is the issue over which he travels to ink-r-us.

 

[wsuffa]

Baltimore is pretty much in shock over the idea. Mayor O'Malley (D) and Governor Erhlich (R) finally have a single issue on which they agree, and the rest of the state is behind them.

United States Port controls should remain INSIDE the United States. What concerns me is, they already weren't - its a London based company that's selling the control!

The whole State is up in arms about this one...

I agree with the sentiment that this requires a harder look/more disclosure.

HOWEVER, I also note that the ports themselves are still owned by US entities. The contract in question is only for the management of the ports.

Some of you may - or may not - know that some of the larger airports in the US are managed by BAA (the British airport management group), which manages Indianapolis (and manages the retail concessions at BWI, Logan, and Pittsburgh) or the Schiphol Group that has stakes in the management of terminals at JFK and others.

So, in theory, once the contracts run out, the port authorities could put new operators in there (if they could find them). Good contracts would contain "change of control" clauses, which would allow an "out" when ownership changes. That could resolve the problem altogether.

On the one hand, the port authorities have to maximize revenue and throughput at the port (which is accomoplished by hiring the best company), yet they also have to provide security.

Unless a US company steps up and is "world class" at port operations, I can see why the port authorities go outside the US for management.

By the way, and Henning already knows the answer, I'm sure, does anybody realize how little shipping freight travels into this country on US Flag ships? Or how many passenger cruise ships are actually US registered? The answer may surprise you.

 

[wsuffa]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

Well said. And I'm not entirely sure that the President can stop this deal between two non-US companies. If he could, would it bring port operations to a standstill?

 

[Brian Austin]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

There is more to the story here, too.

There were only two companies that bid on the contract that the British company is selling. One is from the UAE while the other is from Singapore. My understanding is that the UAE numbers were much better.

During the 9/11 investigations, the UAE cooperated with US authorities to provide banking information on money transactions that funded the terrorists. The UAE is considered the Swiss bank of the Arab world. Wouldn't you want to keep these guys on your 'friends' list?

From the big picture point of view: how much do you think is going to really change at the ports? Do you think all of the existing workers are suddenly going to be fired and Arabs moved into their positions? This is a management change, not a workforce migration. Let's be a little realistic about what REALLY is happening here.

 

[Bill]

does anybody realize how little shipping freight travels into this country on US Flag ships? Or how many passenger cruise ships are actually US registered? The answer may surprise you.

US registered ships are almost non-existant. I can't remember if it is due to taxation, registration fees, safety/conformance standards, or liability. I do know it is much more profitable to use foreign registry for ships.

 

[ScottM]

US registered ships are almost non-existant. I can't remember if it is due to taxation, registration fees, safety/conformance standards, or liability. I do know it is much more profitable to use foreign registry for ships.

All of those and and on a US registered ship you need a US registered crew. There is a great book about the Merchant Marine called 'Looking for a Ship' by John McPhee http://www.johnmcphee.com/looking.htm

I liked his book about oranges too.

 

[poadeleted1]

No lib has a right to be upset. After all, to not allow the UAE to control the ports is discriminatory. And on what basis would we discriminate? Everyone knows that only a few radicals are the cause of our problems, not the entire muslim world. So it can't be a security concern. And if we won't let them do it because they are foreigners...well, that's a load of horse poop too, because P&O is not an American company either. So now it comes down to the fact the they are Middle Eastern or Islamic. And that goes to show that bigotry and xenophobia is a large part of your makeup.

Either someone is very dishonest with themselves and us or just outright stupid. Or are they just hypocrites?
****************************************************
EDIT:

I read Chucks warning, and feel compelled to point out that if an adult cannot take any criticism at all, they must lead a very sheltered life. It is difficult to find a word that conveys the sentiment that the simple word "stupid" puts forth, but in the future, I will strive to make use of less pejorative and more caring, sensitive words to describe things, processes and people.

"SOMEONE" is not implicating nor does it implicate ANYONE on this web board. It is meant as a statement to point out the absurdity that runs rampant, to wit, that those who raised alarm in the past were mocked and denigrated as islamophobes, but now those same people (NOT ON THIS BOARD!!!) now oppose allowing an Arab company managing ports in the US. Why is that? Are they afraid of the Arabs? Do they mean to imply that there could be dire consequences? Then how could they oppose the "alarmists" of the past who warned of islams' infiltration into our very lives. There is a major disconnect in the logic and thought process, or maybe it is somewhere else. In any case, a definite rethinking of position is required for both sides, because either we fear Arabs and their culture, or we welcome them and all they bring to the table. Straddling the fence will only leave us singing soprano.

 

[woodstock]

No lib has a right to be upset. After all, to not allow the UAE to control the ports is discriminatory. And on what basis would we discriminate? Everyone knows that only a few radicals are the cause of our problems, not the entire muslim world. So it can't be a security concern. And if we won't let them do it because they are foreigners...well, that's a load of horse poop too, because P&O is not an American company either. So now it comes down to the fact the they are Middle Eastern or Islamic. And that goes to show that bigotry and xenophobia is a large part of your makeup.

Either someone is very dishonest with themselves and us or just outright stupid. Or are they just hypocrites?

surely you aren't calling someone here dishonest or stupid, right?

 

[Greebo]

While so far the statements are general, they're getting a bit too close to name calling. And when a group is referenced in such a way as to exclude none of its members, it stops being general.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2663

Lets remember first AND second responsibilities please.

Thanks.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

Thank you, Anthony! You're the only one who seems to be getting it right. Dubai is one of our very few friends in the middle east.

All this knee-jerk reaction is, well, as ill-considered as any other knee-jerk reaction.

 

[AirBaker]

My problem with the whole thing, is that there is never enough information to make your own decisions. I want to know what their responsibilities are when they have 'control' over the ports. Why this company/country? Are they that good at this job that will make our nation better? How many of our dollars are leaving this nation and going to UAE?

Perhaps this is just one big misunderstanding, but it doens't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

My problem with the whole thing, is that there is never enough information to make your own decisions. I want to know what their responsibilities are when they have 'control' over the ports. Why this company/country? Are they that good at this job that will make our nation better? How many of our dollars are leaving this nation and going to UAE?

Perhaps this is just one big misunderstanding, but it doens't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

I will admit that I was sceptical at first. But from what I have been able to glean from all this is that 1) The British are doing it now. 2) Only two companies have bid on the operation, a company out of Singapore and this one out of the UAE. 3) That security will still be done by the Coast Guard and Customs will still inspect the cargo. 4) Last but not least, no American company is in this business. And a few other things. Bottom line as I see it is that the only thing changing is who is paying the bills. And of all the Arab nations this is the only one I would want to do business with.

What I find more troubling is the insidious move to allow more foriegn ownership of our airlines. Virgin America is about to start up in the States. It is only slightly veiled as an American company, in my opinion.

 

[wsuffa]

What I find more troubling is the insidious move to allow more foriegn ownership of our airlines. Virgin America is about to start up in the States. It is only slightly veiled as an American company, in my opinion.

A play out of the NewsCorp playbook. Look at how NewsCorp was able to buy media outlets in the US, despite the prohibitions on foreign ownership.

 

[Bill]

So now it comes down to the fact the they are Middle Eastern or Islamic. And that goes to show that bigotry and xenophobia is a large part of your makeup.

Yeah, I guess we should have let German and Japanese companies run our ports during WWII.

 

[RogerT]

Anyone else steamed that Bush is fevrent on selling port control interests to a company from the UAE? I think it is a blatant slap in the face to all the families who have lost children to this war. What say you?

I'm republican, voted for Bush, but I have to say now, the man is an arse.

You know .. at first glance I had a little concern about this. But it's
not like security of the ports is being turned over .. only their routine
operation. Last I heard Customs and the USCG are still responsible
for security at our ports. I also have a problem with discriminating
against the whole Muslim world because of a few radical screwballs.

RT

 

[Brian Austin]

Thread re-opened for further discussion.

Please remember that the Rules of Conduct apply to any and all posts. Don't get personal with it.

 

[NC Pilot]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

Exactly right Anthony. Glad to see cooler heads weighing in.

 

[poadeleted1]

so a general statement is personal. OK. It is only about cooking and clothes from now on I guess. Or someone really has a thin skin....

 

[ejensen]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

Based on what I know so far, I agree it was a reasonable decision. Probably true the owner will have no real affect on running a port facility. But what amazes me is the admin didn't see the reaction of the people to the appearance of muslems owning/managing US ports. Sometimes a very good thing can look very bad. I mean how did they think it would look in the headlines? Isn't that part of the big picture too?

 

[ausrere]

But what amazes me is the admin didn't see the reaction of the people to the appearance of muslems owning/managing US ports. Sometimes a very good thing can look very bad. I mean how did they think it would look in the headlines? Isn't that part of the big picture too?

This is what amazes me by the whole deal.. and now they are saying the President didn't know about it until the deal was done? Huh? You would have thought they'd have had the foresight to know this was going to be a major news story and would have had their ducks in a row long before it broke.

I don't usually get involved in political discussions.. but the fact they didn't see this frenzy coming has me shaking my head in amazement.

 

[Henning]

I agree with the sentiment that this requires a harder look/more disclosure.

HOWEVER, I also note that the ports themselves are still owned by US entities. The contract in question is only for the management of the ports.

Some of you may - or may not - know that some of the larger airports in the US are managed by BAA (the British airport management group), which manages Indianapolis (and manages the retail concessions at BWI, Logan, and Pittsburgh) or the Schiphol Group that has stakes in the management of terminals at JFK and others.

So, in theory, once the contracts run out, the port authorities could put new operators in there (if they could find them). Good contracts would contain "change of control" clauses, which would allow an "out" when ownership changes. That could resolve the problem altogether.

On the one hand, the port authorities have to maximize revenue and throughput at the port (which is accomoplished by hiring the best company), yet they also have to provide security.

Unless a US company steps up and is "world class" at port operations, I can see why the port authorities go outside the US for management.

By the way, and Henning already knows the answer, I'm sure, does anybody realize how little shipping freight travels into this country on US Flag ships? Or how many passenger cruise ships are actually US registered? The answer may surprise you.

Basically all US flag cargo and passenger shipping done is because of Jones Act and Cabotage laws. It's almost all Brown Water stuff (in shore & coastal) done with tugs and barges. This won't be forever either. More exclusions come around all the time, I'm still trying to figure out how some of the gambling ships get away with flying a foreign flag since they never clear into in a foriegn port between stops in US Ports. The first exception to this I recall was initiated by Jeff Stickler to allow big cruise ships to make Avalon a port of call when departing and returning to the port of LA without having to go to Mexico inbetween. Most large ships are registed under whatever flag of convienience offers them the best tax rate and are classed by one of the major classification societies such as ABS or DNV. Even in the workboat arena in the oilfield, more and more of the larger OSVs are flying a foriegn flag, and I have no idea how they are getting away with that. I pulled worked a 280' OSV flagged Vanuattu and pulled into Galveston repeatedly in the course of 3 months without ever leaving the US or her territorial waters, never figured out how that worked....

 

[Richard]

Has anyone considered that the UAE is one our few allies and strategic partners in the Gulf region? Do you think that the President wants to recognize them for helping us on the war on terror? If we slap them in the face, do you think they will help us anymore?

I think the President knows more about how the UAE is helping us more than Congress does.

Just some things to consider in the big picture.

I've got to get this off my chest...

Anthony, I don't disagree with what you wrote, per se, but America is not (should not be) for sale. Your 2nd sentence made it sound like our ports are a reward for partnering with us.

 

[SkyHog]

Bush is being extremely pushy on this, and I don't like it one bit. I don't like the idea of the Brits having control over anything here again (remember last time...?) but at least they're as close to Americans as you can get (afterall, they lack the ability to make a political decision without consulting the US first).

I also don't see how those on the left can complain about this though. Birdman's right...we've been hearing all along about how Arabs are not all bad, and Muslims are good people at heart, and how we shouldn't be searching only Muslims or Arabs at airports and everything else ad naseum. Why the sudden change?

Gotta be because Bush is behind it.

 

[MSmith]

You know .. at first glance I had a little concern about this. But it's
not like security of the ports is being turned over .. only their routine
operation. Last I heard Customs and the USCG are still responsible
for security at our ports. I also have a problem with discriminating
against the whole Muslim world because of a few radical screwballs.

RT

I'm not so sure about this.

The port management will still have hiring and firing control over the ports. I'm not sure (I really don't know enough) how involved management is in any background checking of new employees, but it seems to me that it'd be easy to get a "bad guy" on the payroll if the company running the port wanted to. It could just be "temporary - waiting for background check", which would be long enough to do some damage.

 

[SJP]

What I find more troubling is the insidious move to allow more foriegn ownership of our airlines. Virgin America is about to start up in the States. It is only slightly veiled as an American company, in my opinion.

Of course, the American companies have made such a success of the domestic market, Virgin will be muscling in on all that profit....

 

[poadeleted3]

The UAE has been one of our few stalwart allies in this war. The current reaction to them smacks of racism to me, and is an insult to that ally who has risked much to stand by us. Our soldiers are not fighting to eradicate Arabs or Islam, but to remove a threat to this nation. Supporting those who support us can only help achieve that goal. IMHO.

 

[Missa]

Ok, so what I don't get it how so much misinformation can be spread and belived. From what I heard (NPR) That it's not the 'ports' that they will control but terminals in the ports. The port of Baltimore has 6 (or so) terminals most of them managed by Chinese firms the one terminal contract in question is 1/2 owned by a Danish firm and 1/2 owned by the firm being bought by the UAE firm... So really what's the problem, don't you think a having our ports terminal run by companies in China to be just as bad if not worse. I don't think Bush understimated the issue but he undersetimated how the media can blow something so up out of porportion so it becomes an issue in the public eye that when you look and understood the entire deal there is no issue at all. They are not getting ownership of the 'port' but ownership of a contract to manage one of many cargo terminals of the port. If the other forign ownership is ok, then the fact that they are an Arab country does seem a be racist to me and I am ashamed that we as a country can be that shallow. I personally would rather see US firms runing the ports but to get incensed that it's an UAE company and not a Chinese/Danish/English/Singaporian company is misplanced sentiment.

Missa