Salary Talk

Two employers ago asked so they could try and match the pay. My managers went to ownership to try and retain me but ownership said no. Still talk with and have lunch with them 20 some years later.
 
Only possible reason I see for it would be that they may be interested in matching or beating it to keep you in your current position...
 
My last boss never asked specifically but he did it clear to me that he was willing to match or beat it if I was open to disclosing my new offer, which I wasn't.
 
Discussing salary with anyone is in poor taste. In many instances those who got new job offers were looking for other then money anyway. There is a lot of value in being happy with your job. Furthermore, many companies who offer to match to keep you will put you at number 1 on the layoff list when business slows. If you are happy with your new job just respectfully decline to answer and let them know how much you enjoyed the journey. Don't ever want to burn and bridges.

Unless you win the lottery. Then burn anything you want.


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EdFred said:
Two employers ago asked so they could try and match the pay. My managers went to ownership to try and retain me but ownership said no. Still talk with and have lunch with them 20 some years later.
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rachelk.tailwinds said:
My last boss never asked specifically but he did it clear to me that he was willing to match or beat it if I was open to disclosing my new offer, which I wasn't.
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I answer that request politely with, "It's higher, and you had every chance to do this "match" before I started looking. We can talk about why I started looking, but I don't do counter-offers. The reason is, if I made up my mind to leave, there were reasons and they weren't all about salary."

That said, my average time somewhere is well above five years. I tend to hang on a while knowing the grass is almost never greener other than in the bank account.

A new job at higher pay is always an exercise in making sure I'm adding at least equal but preferably more than that much value back into the company, or why would they pay it? And that's a lot of work at first.

Reputation will get you some leeway to learn their business if needed and their way of doing things, but in the end, you have to perform at the new level and then some.

If they press and I have a very good relationship with them and know they're totally missing the current market rate for certain skills, I'll maybe give the percentage. Maybe. Usually only for a manager who was a personal friend who's going to have to go through the hell of the hiring process and needs the information as fodder against someone who won't pay for the skillsets needed and won't do a market survey.

And I never leave for less than a significant multiplier over inflation. You never know if the next place even gives proper inflationary raises, and if your salary isn't climbing by at least the rate of inflation, you're working for less than you did before, for every year longer you stay. So it's negotiated in for X years worth up front. I set the X that I think I need to prove I'm worth those raises.

This of course from the guy who's willingly cutting his salary in half and dropping his bennies to go goof off in airplanes as a little sabbatical... It's overdue.
 
just tell em you got a big raise....an the management seems to be real friendly. :D
 
The new generation doesn't feel the same way about sharing salary info...they openly share
 
Sure, I'll inflate it a little too, but I'm a commodity like anything else, want to try to outbid someone else for my services, let the games begin!
 
I always discuss pay but then I've always been frontline cannon fodder type. Helps to find any problems with your or someones pay. If I started getting into six figures i'd be cagey if the situation warranted.

About the only thing I don't do is mention pay to someone I know outside of work who makes less.
 
N918KT said:
I disagree. I'm a Millennial and for me, I would feel uncomfortable sharing my salary with my coworkers, especially if I am not exactly best friends with them or if I don't know them too well.
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Most millennial are not comfortable with much of anything.
 
In my case, I wasn't actually looking for a different job. I liked where I was, and was approached by my would-be-boss after church one day and he said "Hey, I hear you are working at ____." (A competitor) "Yes, for about a year now." "Call me tomorrow." So I did, and the offer was 20% higher than what I was making, and I had just gotten a raise. I went to my current employer and said here's the deal.
 
NHWannabe said:
The new generation doesn't feel the same way about sharing salary info...they openly share
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Eh, that blanket statement isn't necessarily true. It depends on the industry and position, I'm 27 and have friends/colleagues in a variety of positions in quite a few fields, and ultimately each situation is unique. I'm entrepreneurial and have interests in quite a few different industries, and in my experience a majority of people keep their salary tightly guarded if they are in an environment where growth is questionable and it's a smaller company, in other industries it's a popular talking point in conversation.
 
I just was in training about this and it's against the law now to forbid or penalize employees who ask about or discuss their pay with others. It's being added to our employee handbook shortly. Is it wise? Probably not, but an employee cannot be disciplined for discussing it.

I also read once that 80% of "those that stayed" after a counter offer were gone within a year. Finally, in my own department, an employee who we counter offered to keep him on the job came back to us within weeks trying it again. This time we told let him walk. AFAIK he is still unemployed after the green grass he left for did *not* materialize. So if you decide to leave, leave. But you'd better make d*mn sure there's a job waiting for you on the other end.
 
We are all on scaled pay. We pretty much know what everyone makes already. I have no,prob telling anyone at work what my check looks like.

I don't understand the stigma around pay. You make what your employer thinks you are worth. If the new guy is making more or less, so what?

I think the "rule" is more for the employer to hide pay issues than the workers. They don't want Johnny to know Susie makes $3 more an hour than he does other wise Johnny get his panties in a bunch and demands $3 or threatens to leave. Johnny then can't find a better job and his productivity begins to lag and blames everyone else and Mofos the company and tries to drag others in with his misery.

That's my take.
 
the only person on earth outside of people at work who ever knew anything about my salary was a friend who did my taxes one year. other than that, even my parents don't know what I have ever made salary wise. basically I try not to disclose how I became a self-made hundredaire.
 
Unit74 said:
We are all on scaled pay. We pretty much know what everyone makes already. I have no,prob telling anyone at work what my check looks like.

I don't understand the stigma around pay. You make what your employer thinks you are worth. If the new guy is making more or less, so what?

I think the "rule" is more for the employer to hide pay issues than the workers. They don't want Johnny to know Susie makes $3 more an hour than he does other wise Johnny get his panties in a bunch and demands $3 or threatens to leave. Johnny then can't find a better job and his productivity begins to lag and blames everyone else and Mofos the company and tries to drag others in with his misery.

That's my take.
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Or maybe Johnny wants as much as Susie because he puts in more work and gets paid less, so he leaves for another job, makes more and is appreciated.
 
I make at least $10/year. Cat is out of the bag. I told my former employer when I got my current job offer that it was too good of a deal to pass up and that the salary was more than 30% higher. They told me they wouldn't be able to match that. Even if they had there were other reasons I was looking to leave.
 
vkhosid said:
Only possible reason I see for it would be that they may be interested in matching or beating it to keep you in your current position...
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rachelk.tailwinds said:
My last boss never asked specifically but he did it clear to me that he was willing to match or beat it if I was open to disclosing my new offer, which I wasn't.
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Almost every time I've left a job, my employer has told me that they'd match the new offer. My response has always been:

"Well, that means one of two things. Either you were knowingly underpaying me or, if I agree to your match offer, then now I'm overpayed in your eyes. Neither represents a good option for me."
 
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Somedudeintn said:
I make at least $10/year. Cat is out of the bag. I told my former employer when I got my current job offer that it was too good of a deal to pass up and that the salary was more than 30% higher. They told me they wouldn't be able to match that. Even if they had there were other reasons I was looking to leave.
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So you're the sign spinner... I knew I would figure it out some day!
 
If your going to leave leave but it can't really hurt to let them know why you are leaving if money is part of the reason to help make them a better company.

I tell the people that work for me you can come to me and talk about salary and I will take a serious look at it if you have a legit issue I will try to change it but if you start coming back time and time again I will find someone else to do the job I won't work with extortionists.
 
Other engineering interns and co-ops are very open about their pay. It's one of the ways we judge which companies we want to work for and strive to intern for during the next summer. Additionally, most of the entry level engineers were very willing to share what they make so I could know what to expect if I took a full time job at that company.

It's quite helpful to me more than anything, just getting more information about companies I might work at.
 
I think it depends on the industry and to a lesser extent your age. The etiquette restriction is mainly an older person thing.
 
Counters are bad. I've had recruits who declined my offers due to a counter-offer, and if they are interesting to us, we will often call them back 6-12 months later and ask how things are going and if they'd like us to re-extend their offer.

When people look, in most cases it's not for money. Then, they get an offer and feel they have to change for the perceived known benefit (cash). They don't know that the culture is going to be any better/worse than their existing arrangements, but certainly they aren't satisfied with where they are. Human's are resistant to change and the appeal of maintaining the status quo at their existing employer sometimes wins in the short term.

6 months later, they realize they wish they had moved, and pay aside the underlying reasons they went on a job search are still present. Often times, they accept.

I don't have statistics on this but I would consider an accepted counter offer as an arrangement that is statistically likely to fail, similar to a 2nd marriage.

YMMV

On the other half of the question, I don't expect (nor want) you to tell me your new salary. However, offering generalized data on the reasons why you left and our shortcomings does a service to your co-workers, even if this reason is not money related. Being silent about it does not.
 
NHWannabe said:
The new generation doesn't feel the same way about sharing salary info...they openly share
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I haven't found this to be true, but they do openly share how specific companies and individuals screwed them over. They'll burn that bridge right to the ground and make sure the ashes aren't even left standing.

Of course many times their openness and hate is justified. Especially in IT, there's a lot of really badly run companies and word gets around fast. But sometimes not fast enough for the new folk. Some businesses use them as never endi cannon fodder.

Nowadays a company's reputation isn't just something everyone learns via socializing in the industry like it once was... Who to work for, who never to work for, the utter disaster managers/execs to avoid at all costs who never seem to go away, they just bounce to a new company...

And all posted on sites like Glassdoor and others, nearly instantly.
 
Companies don't want employees sharing salary info because it causes internal problems. The old timers had a cow when they found out the new hires hired in at a higher rate than they were making, and yet the old timers had to train the new hires. But, the company had to offer the new hires that amount in order to entice them.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Companies don't want employees sharing salary info because it causes internal problems. The old timers had a cow when they found out the new hires hired in at a higher rate than they were making, and yet the old timers had to train the new hires. But, the company had to offer the new hires that amount in order to entice them.
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Been there, done that.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Companies don't want employees sharing salary info because it causes internal problems. The old timers had a cow when they found out the new hires hired in at a higher rate than they were making, and yet the old timers had to train the new hires. But, the company had to offer the new hires that amount in order to entice them.
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I'd be leaving well before I trained anyone for such a chit show company.
 
Got to be good pay if it's enough to back shelf your self worth and pride.
 
That's the thing, nobody was supposed to know about the pay disparity. The company has made Forbes best companies to work for list, for many, many years.
 
The hiring manager had the leeway to make those offers to entice. Nobody's fault (other than policy) that the old timers were trapped in a salary range that new hires weren't. Of course, the old timers have all retired with a better retirement package....
 
Telling him could work in your favor if you would be willing to stay if they match or exceed it. If you are out of there regardles, dont tell. But any time you tell someone how much money you make or how much money you have you run the risk that somehow they will use it against you. Don't talk too much to other employees that are leaving either. They tell a lot on their exit interview.

I know an employee that told employeeB how much money he made and it caused all sorts of trouble for him. His boss got mad because employeeB came to boss and said he wanted to make as much as the other guy because they did the same work (he was making less). Boss couldnt get the raise for the guy.

Dont ask farmers or ranchers how much land they have either. Its like asking them how much money they have.

Dont ever tell anyone except a spouse how much money you have. Not even your accountant or lawyer. It always ends up working against you, never for you.
 
in my profession(blue collar), my salary is widely known. I deal with the public and often get ****y remarks from people about how much I make. I earn every cent my company pays me. It's hard to bite my tounge sometimes. Especially when people who have no idea try and tell me what I'm worth. Money does weird things to people. Even some of my friends who found out what I make treated me different. I dunno?
 
iflyvfr said:
I just was in training about this and it's against the law now to forbid or penalize employees who ask about or discuss their pay with others. It's being added to our employee handbook shortly. Is it wise? Probably not, but an employee cannot be disciplined for discussing it.

I also read once that 80% of "those that stayed" after a counter offer were gone within a year. Finally, in my own department, an employee who we counter offered to keep him on the job came back to us within weeks trying it again. This time we told let him walk. AFAIK he is still unemployed after the green grass he left for did *not* materialize. So if you decide to leave, leave. But you'd better make d*mn sure there's a job waiting for you on the other end.
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+1.

I work pretty hard at making sure my staff are doing meaningful work and their efforts and results are important and appreciated.

But once an employee decides to leave, especially if they have already accepted another offer, I won't try to persuade them to change their mind. At that point they have already emotionally moved on and the odds are stacked against them staying for very long even if one is successful in changing their mind. I wish them well and get back to dealing with running the business.
 
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