safety pilot signature?

A

airheadpenguin

Pre-takeoff checklist
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airheadpenguin
Heard from my DPE tonight that safety pilots need to sign the logbook of the person under the hood. This was news to me, can anyone help with a citation?
 
There was a proposal to that effect in an NPRM a while back, but it was rejected, so the current reg still says you just need the name of the safety pilot. The reference is 14 CFR 61.51(g)(3)(ii).
 
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Not required. 61.51(b)(1)(v) is the reference. No mention of a signature.
 
Palmpilot said:
There was a proposal to that effect in an NPRM a while back, but it was rejected, so the current reg still says you just need the name of the safety pilot. The reference is 14 CFR 61.51(g)(3)(ii).
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Hmm. Mentioned in TWO places. Must be important. :yes::rofl:
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Hmm. Mentioned in TWO places. Must be important. :yes::rofl:
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Interesting.

I think your citation is better though, because mine only applies if your purpose for logging the time is to meet the recent instrument experience requirements of 61.57(c).
 
Nope

First entry, I had full name and cert # with signature, after that just last name in the copilot/instructor box. This was a little while ago, but worked fine for me with DPEs and FSDO rides after that.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Nope

First entry, I had full name and cert # with signature, after that just last name in the copilot/instructor box. This was a little while ago, but worked fine for me with DPEs and FSDO rides after that.
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There's nothing to say you can't put in more than required, but neither certificate number nor signature are required for the safety pilot involved in simulated instrument flight. Not once, not ever.
 
DPEs are not authorities on anything. The only power they are granted is giving checkrides and issuing the certificates based on those. Other than that they are just politically connected flight instructors.
 
Ron Levy said:
There's nothing to say you can't put in more than required, but neither certificate number nor signature are required for the safety pilot involved in simulated instrument flight. Not once, not ever.
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Correct

However as the OP has seen, just having it in there once to postivitly ID your saftey pilot, can help eliminate BS down the road.
 
And for Heaven's sake, please do NOT write a letter to the FAA and ask for a legal opinion on this issue!
 
NineThreeKilo said:
However as the OP has seen, just having it in there once to postivitly ID your saftey pilot, can help eliminate BS down the road.
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What "BS down the road"? You mean satisfying a DPE who demands something the regs don't require? That's a road not to be travelled. Next thing you know, you'll be attaching printouts of the METAR's and FA's to prove actual instrument conditions. Or photocopies of your instructor's certificates to show qualifications and expiration dates. Where does that end? In this case, following the regulation is quite sufficient, and there are many reasons folks will want not to have their cert # (which may be their SSN) with their full name in someone else's logbook.
 
Ron Levy said:
What "BS down the road"? You mean satisfying a DPE who demands something the regs don't require? That's a road not to be travelled. Next thing you know, you'll be attaching printouts of the METAR's and FA's to prove actual instrument conditions. Or photocopies of your instructor's certificates to show qualifications and expiration dates. Where does that end? In this case, following the regulation is quite sufficient, and there are many reasons folks will want not to have their cert # (which may be their SSN) with their full name in someone else's logbook.
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Ends with common sense

It makes sense to be to put a ticket number by the first saftey pilot entry, we put our N number for the aircraft right? CFI puts his cert and exp date right?

Documentation cuts BS like a knife through butter most times. It's your log do with it as you wish.

I put the full name, ticket number and signature for the first one, after that just last name, figure if some questions come up down the road, about if the guy was qualified on the plane, or whatever, having a number that postivitly IDs him might come in handy. If the guy is such a secret squrell he doesn't even want to show me his license, he can F' off.

It's not needed, but IMO makes sense and really doesn't take any time or money to do.
 
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NineThreeKilo said:
Ends with common sense

It makes sense to be to put a ticket number by the first saftey pilot entry, we put our N number for the aircraft right? CFI puts his cert and exp date right?
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The N-number, CFI certificate number, and CFI expiration date are logged because they are required, not because they are "common sense."

Likewise, the name of the safety pilot is required, not his or her signature or certificate number.

A better analogy would be logging the serial number of the aircraft. Do you do that?
 
flyingron said:
DPEs are not authorities on anything. The only power they are granted is giving checkrides and issuing the certificates based on those. Other than that they are just politically connected flight instructors.
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Never thought of Doug Stewart as just a politically connected flight instructor...perhaps your generalization is a bit of a stretch...
 
dmspilot said:
The N-number, CFI certificate number, and CFI expiration date are logged because they are required, not because they are "common sense."

Likewise, the name of the safety pilot is required, not his or her signature or certificate number.

A better analogy would be logging the serial number of the aircraft. Do you do that?
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Some people do more then just what's required, requirements and common sense don't always go hand and hand, but you know that.

Do I put the serial for the plane, don't have to I have the N number which can be run in a few seconds and produce the serial, owner, Mode S code etc.
 
Never keep more documentation than is required. Things like VOR checks for example should be done on something disposable. There is a reason corporate america lives by document retention rules.
 
JHW said:
Never keep more documentation than is required. Things like VOR checks for example should be done on something disposable. There is a reason corporate america lives by document retention rules.
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In my log I put all sorts of stuff, NOTAMS I file, weird stuff that occurs, cool photos from on-board, it's my personal log and my personal property, I'll show it if it helps me and it's none of anyone's business otherwise
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Do I put the serial for the plane, don't have to I have the N number which can be run in a few seconds and produce the serial, owner, Mode S code etc.
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I've owned two planes whose N-numbers have been on other planes, too, so that won't necessarily help. But that really doesn't matter. You can put the safety pilot's blood type and mother's maiden name in your log if you like, but there's absolutely no reason to do so, and there may be reasons not to.
 
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