Safety features for your airplane!

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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Hello,

What kind of features would you recommend for safety within an airplane? Would you go with a shoulder harness over a regular seatbelt? Is the sun visor more harm than good? Inquiring minds would like to know.




As always thanks for your posts. I always learn a lot!
 
TCAS. There's my number 1 safety feature. I'd rather fly a plane without seatbelts than without TCAS.

seatbelts have never once saved my bacon...
 
TCAS, parachute, good autopilot, shoulder harness. Sounds like a Cirrus.....
 
Seatbelts. There's my number 1 safety feature. I'd rather fly a plane without TCAS than without seatbelts.

(Wait a minute. I already do.)
 
Fire Extinguisher, at least a 4-point harness, Traffic are my biggies. We have a couple club planes that don't even have a shoulder strap, it is really unnerving....
 
My wife hated me for putting in shoulder straps since they rub against our necks when we have them buckled. I always wear a polo so I can flip the collar up, but the safety factor is well worth it.

That was basically my second upgrade in the plane I own right now (BAS Harnesses). Still need to get a Halon fire extinguisher. I use an iPad with Garmin Pilot and a GDL 3D 39. I don't have 18-21K to invest in a TCAS system, nor would I waste the money on one when I have perfectly good eyes. The cost is almost as much as the airframe is worth in my Piper.
 
Captain said:
TCAS. There's my number 1 safety feature. I'd rather fly a plane without seatbelts than without TCAS.

seatbelts have never once saved my bacon...
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Was there ever a time when it didn't work? Someone told me that it's not always accurate, is that true?
 
Caramon13 said:
My wife hated me for putting in shoulder straps since they rub against our necks when we have them buckled. I always wear a polo so I can flip the collar up, but the safety factor is well worth it.

That was basically my second upgrade in the plane I own right now (BAS Harnesses). Still need to get a Halon fire extinguisher. I use an iPad with Garmin Pilot and a GDL 3D 39. I don't have 18-21K to invest in a TCAS system, nor would I waste the money on one when I have perfectly good eyes. The cost is almost as much as the airframe is worth in my Piper.
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Aren't there cheaper options for traffic vs. $18K? Can't you use a tablet and receiver such as this one for $500: XGPS170
 
FloridaPilot said:
Was there ever a time when it didn't work? Someone told me that it's not always accurate, is that true?
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Whether or not it ever fails, it is added 'eyes' so I would think any added information is better than none. Regardless, you're always looking outside, right?
 
jimbilly said:
Aren't there cheaper options for traffic vs. $18K? Can't you use a tablet and receiver such as this one for $500: XGPS170
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Yes, there definitely are, but if you are talking about a TCAS system which is actively monitoring for traffic, those systems are at LEAST 15K for the hardware and I'm willing to bet with install it takes you up much higher.

Here's a good place to look for the difference between ADS-B and TAS and TAS and TCAS:

http://www.avidyne.com/landing/ads-bee/what-is-ads-b.asp

A tablet based system like the one you posted, or a GDL 39 or Stratus just rely on "listening" for ADS-B out messages from planes nearby, no way as reliable as a TAS or TCAS, which are actively interrogating transponders of anything nearby.
 
4 point shoulder harness. #1 with a bullet.
 
Caramon13 said:
Yes, there definitely are, but if you are talking about a TCAS system which is actively monitoring for traffic, those systems are at LEAST 15K for the hardware and I'm willing to bet with install it takes you up much higher.

Here's a good place to look for the difference between ADS-B and TAS and TAS and TCAS:

http://www.avidyne.com/landing/ads-bee/what-is-ads-b.asp

A tablet based system like the one you posted, or a GDL 39 or Stratus just rely on "listening" for ADS-B out messages from planes nearby, no way as reliable as a TAS or TCAS, which are actively interrogating transponders of anything nearby.
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Thanks for the info, I was reading about that device and it claims to receive ground based updates of traffic provided by ATC as well as listening for ads-b out from equipped aircraft. I guess that would be the TIS-B info also, so it should be somewhat more useful than what you described.

Anyway, for the guy 'doing without' based on cost, I would think it would be worth looking into.
 
Radios for the NORDO crazy flyin mofo's would be a good start (ugh, here we go!).

I can't stand shoulder straps but if there is solid evidence that they provide added safety then I'm happy to wear if the plane has em.
 
Something is better than nothing, I agree. I use an iPad and a GDL 3D 39 to backup my own eyes and it has helped in more than one situation, so yeah, they are worth it.

But, it misses a lot too. TAS/TCAS systems are also way more focused on traffic. While I can see stuff out 10 miles with my GDL 3D 39, if I had a TAS/TCAS it would only be looking (in most situations) no more than 5-7 miles and only a few thousand feet above or below me (dual antennas help).
 
Caramon13 said:
My wife hated me for putting in shoulder straps since they rub against our necks when we have them buckled. I always wear a polo so I can flip the collar up, but the safety factor is well worth it.
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I did the same BAS upgrade on my TR182, first thing after we purchased it. I've seen too many accident reports where the occupants would have survived if they hadn't hit their head on the panel/glareshield.

Here's an idea for your wife... let her take the shoulder harness off in cruise... just have it on for takeoff/departure and descent/landing.
 
Safety equipment that has been added to my 172N:

2 axis autopilot, inertia reel shoulder belts, ADS-b in/out for weather and traffic, standby vacuum system, wingtip landing lights, CO detector, auxiliary fuel tank, fire extinguisher.
 
Ideally, pressurization, on board radar, twin turbines, FADEC, autothrottles, hot wing, FL400+ service ceiling, big fuel tanks and a second crew member.

But I have to live with dual redundant electrical systems (busses, batteries, alternators), 3 sources of AHRS + a backup AI, shoulder harness belts with airbags, a reinforced safety cage, CAPS parachute, active traffic, ADS-B traffic (separate source), stormscope, nexrad weather detalink, ADSB weather datalink, 2 moving map displays, 3 sources of approach charts, Garmin Safetaxi, Foreflight airport maps, FIKI TKS deicing system, GFC700 autopilot that does just about everything short of autoland and autothrottles, twin turbochargers, panel built active CO detection, O2 saturation monitor, satellite voice comm and probably a few others I'm missing.
 
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RudyP said:
Ideally, pressurization, on board radar, twin turbines, FADEC, autothrottles, hot wing, FL400+ service ceiling, big fuel tanks and a second crew member.

But I have to live with dual redundant electrical systems (busses, batteries, alternators), 3 sources of AHRS + a backup AI, shoulder harness belts with airbags, a reinforced safety cage, CAPS parachute, active traffic, ADS-B traffic (separate source), stormscope, nexrad weather detalink, ADSB weather datalink, 2 moving map displays, 3 sources of approach charts, Garmin Safetaxi, Foreflight airport maps, FIKI TKS deicing system, GFC700 autopilot that does just about everything short of autoland and autothrottles, twin turbochargers, panel built active CO detection, O2 saturation monitor, satellite voice comm and probably a few others I'm missing.
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I think I could be "forced to live" with those features Rudy ;)
 
Caramon13 said:
My wife hated me for putting in shoulder straps since they rub against our necks when we have them buckled. I always wear a polo so I can flip the collar up, but the safety factor is well worth it.

That was basically my second upgrade in the plane I own right now (BAS Harnesses). Still need to get a Halon fire extinguisher. I use an iPad with Garmin Pilot and a GDL 3D 39. I don't have 18-21K to invest in a TCAS system, nor would I waste the money on one when I have perfectly good eyes. The cost is almost as much as the airframe is worth in my Piper.
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I have good eyes and 90% of the traffic my ZAON points out I would have never seen without traffic. I usually take off the should belt except for takeoff/landing because of the rubbing. The inertial reel versions seem to be a little better with that.
 
Caramon13 said:
I think I could be "forced to live" with those features Rudy ;)
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Yep, it's pretty decent for a piston single!

Oh, I forgot two independent sources of synthetic vision, the 'enhanced vision' (infrared) camera and triple HID/LED landing lights that put out a ton of lumens.
 
For most light aircraft shoulder harnesses are the biggest bang for your buck in terms of safety. The next would be on board weather. Another is good sun visors, at least in my opinion.

TCAs is probably the least bang for your buck, and won't spot aircraft that lack transponders. Mid air collisions between aircraft are of sufficient rarity that you're better off focusing your dollars on something more likely to kill you, that being weather. You can also have in cockpit weather for a fraction of the cost of TCAS.
 
Seeing the oval depression my FIL's forehead made in the instrument panel of his C-175, the massive head trauma that eventually took his life after lingering 24 days in a coma in ICU, and 21 years and counting of family angst WRT GA that has ensued, I have to go with shoulder harness as #1. I would never consider a plane without one.
 
1) Shoulder harness
2) Digital fuel totalizer
3) Engine monitor - all cyls for CHT/EGT
4) 6-month recurrent training with a good CFI for emergency procedures
5) Traffic alert system

Yes, I put a traffic system in #5, because I think statistically it is the least likely to prevent an actually accident, though it will prevent more frequent "scares" that rarely end up in metal-metal contact. Some would argue #4 should be #1 or #2, and I wouldn't argue with that.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Hello,

What kind of features would you recommend for safety within an airplane? Would you go with a shoulder harness over a regular seatbelt? Is the sun visor more harm than good? Inquiring minds would like to know.




As always thanks for your posts. I always learn a lot!
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Well I thought I was the odd ball on safety stuff till I posted this poll

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86346

For me airframe wise I'll take a backcountry aircraft with tundras or floats, STOL kit etc.

I feel quite safe in my 185 amphibian, /G, full STOL, 300HP, 4 point belts, EHSI, traffic, analyzer, etc. I can land nearly anywhere, I can put her in a soft plowed field with my gear up and, touching down very slow, hardly any ground roll, and touching down on my float keels I probably won't even have too much damage to my airframe, let alone me. The plane can also land on a small pond or river if needed, or a airport. If I had to get down in horrible viz, I can set up over a long river or lake, circling down to a few hundred feet above the water, line up, hold a slight nose up attitude, 150ish fpm decent and just wait to touch, with plenty of LONG stretches of water around it's a nice thing to have in my back pocket for a emergency.


As for the shoulder belts, hell yes, 4 point inertia reel belts with a rotating center buckle. This is probably the cheapest safety bang for the buck, just read up on some of these stories.

http://basinc-aeromod.com/testimonials.php


Get some high output landing and taxi lights, HIDs for landing, LEDs are OK for shorter range taxi if you can't get a deal of dual HIDs.


Outside from that, stay current, always be thinking of your next step or how you'll land if the engine(s) quit, if you're bored you're f'ing up.

learn some backcountry ops, land on every surface your plane can land on

do spin training in a plane that is most like your plane,

get your IFR ticket from someone with real single pilot IFR experience,

If you're in a area with inhospitable terrian, this is a great way to spend a 1400 bucks, even though it can't be used as a primary, wink wink.
http://www.grtavionics.com/mini-ga.html

get a 2 axis AP with a WAAS GPS if you're going to be flying single pilot IFR (as in real IMC or night IFR).

Get a nice engine analyzer with CHT/EGT for each jug, it'll help you find problems before they have you squawaking 7700.

NUMBER ONE, get instruction from a EXPERIENCED CFI, someone who has 91/135/121 small plane, single pilot experience outside of CFIing, personally I'd start by looking for a ATP/Gold Seal initially.
 
eman1200 said:
I can't stand shoulder straps but if there is solid evidence that they provide added safety then I'm happy to wear if the plane has em.
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I'm not sure what kind of solid evidence would be required to even consider shoulder harnesses to provide or not provide added safety. The dash panel is pretty solid though, and I don't want my face to meet it, so shoulder harness is #1 in my book (4 or 5 point, even better).

As for the OP question about could sun visors potentially be more harm than good, I'm not sure how they could be in any way harmful but I don't consider them a safety feature either. Nice and convenient, though.
 
I've added both Hooker shoulder harnesses (didn't come in the original design) and Rosen sun visors (the original ones suck) to mine.
 
jimbilly said:
Whether or not it ever fails, it is added 'eyes' so I would think any added information is better than none. Regardless, you're always looking outside, right?
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Yes!

But what happens if you are flying through a cloud?
 
After market Air bags and a recovery chute.

And huge reduction in insurance for having them.
 
Shoulder harnesses. I replaced the Cessna cross straps with Hooker Y harnesses.
Fire extinguisher in easy reach. I've used mine twice.
406 ELT and Spidertracks. A sat phone to fill in the blanks. Where's Waldo?
Strobes and forward facing pulse lights. Be seen.
GDL39 3D for weather info. No XM weather in Alaska so ads-b is exciting to have.
Cargo net and seat belt cutter should be on the list as well.

I won't fly or fly in a GA airplane that doesn't have shoulder harnesses, a fire extinguisher, and a 406 so I guess those would be my priorities.
 
Four point harness",autopilot trafic parachute,that should do it for me
 
eman1200 said:
I can't stand shoulder straps but if there is solid evidence that they provide added safety then I'm happy to wear if the plane has em.
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You will find many NTSB reports where folks had significant and often fatal injuries due to lack of shoulder harness (either installed or not being utilized). There was a recent Bonanza fatal where the NTSB noted that the shoulder harness had signs of excessive wear and failed during the crash resulting in death of the pilot.

Shoulder harnesses have been a big ticket NTSB item and as such, the NTSB has gone to great lengths to document their association in accidents. All you need to do is a key word search for shoulder harness in the data base and you can draw your own conclusions.

Personally, I'd put shoulder belt/harness high on the priority list. In flight traffic and weather would be close behind.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You will find many NTSB reports where folks had significant and often fatal injuries due to lack of shoulder harness (either installed or not being utilized). There was a recent Bonanza fatal where the NTSB noted that the shoulder harness had signs of excessive wear and failed during the crash resulting in death of the pilot.

Shoulder harnesses have been a big ticket NTSB item and as such, the NTSB has gone to great lengths to document their association in accidents. All you need to do is a key word search for shoulder harness in the data base and you can draw your own conclusions.

Personally, I'd put shoulder belt/harness high on the priority list. In flight traffic and weather would be close behind.
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Thanks for the factual, non-dooshy response!
 
I had a bad crash in my Luscombe a few years ago. I lost my engine and was going into the trees. I knew I couldn't fly over them, so I purposely stalled the plane and dropped into the tree canopy. Even with most of my momentum going straight down, I still had enough forward momentum that my face smashed into the panel and my ribs hit the stick. I broke ribs, broke a tooth, and broke several ribs. I may have bruised my ribs if I'd had a shoulder strap on, but I think my injuries would have been lessened... not solid evidence, but I believe it! I won't own another airplane without 4 or 5 point harnesses.

eman1200 said:
I can't stand shoulder straps but if there is solid evidence that they provide added safety then I'm happy to wear if the plane has em.
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My subjective opinions:

Most Valuable:
1. Staying away from uncontrolled fields on nice weather weekend days
2. Autopilot for single pilot IFR

Least valuable:
1. 406 ELT
2. Parachute for the airplane
 
I have not seen AmSafe airbags mentioned.

That said the best safety feature is a pilot that makes good decisions. We fail more often than our planes do.
 
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