Sad day in Jackson Hole

N801BH

N801BH

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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Jul 7, 2008
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17,188
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Jackson Hole Wy
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FBH
On my way to the airport this afternoon I saw a RV-7 taking off.. Looked like a good departure. I get to the security gate and as I get out, it passes over with a sick sounding motor. About that time the emergency siren sounds to get the fire trucks rolling... I keep watching, hoping he would do a 180 and land back on the runway as he had plenty of altitude.........

He keeps going on the downwind leg and I keep saying to my self, turn back, turn back. Well about 1/2 mile out he tries to turn back, overbanked it and dove STRAIGHT into the ground...... I hauled ass to the scene to see if I could help and being the first person there I witnessed the most horrific sight I have EVER seen.........:sad::sad:

Guys/ gals.. if the motor fails , either get it on the runway or land straight ahead......

PLEASE, PLEASE.... don't stall a plane at 500 AGL...


Godspeed to the couple in N820RV...... It was a beautiful plane too..


I now need a VERY stiff drink...
 
:(
I'll bet he hadn't practiced that manever.
Couple was from Loveland, Co.
 
Sorry you had to see such a sight. I commend you for being one who runs to the aid of others, as futile as it may sometimes be.
 
jhausch said:
Sorry you had to see such a sight. I commend you for being one who runs to the aid of others, as futile as it may sometimes be.
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Yup.....

Fair skies and tailwinds to the couple......sorry you had to see that Ben.
 
Very sad indeed. Russ & Carrol Kamptz were a highly respected and active RV couple. There plane was a highly modified RV-7, with a supercharged ECI engine. He was a true craftsman, and always helpful with other builders and pilots. Last weekend they attended the 3 day "Badlands Fly in". They will truely be missed as a great flying couple, and contributors to the RV community

Turning back is usually a bad idea.

Ben, you are to be commended for running towards the accident, most run away. Sorry you had to deal with that Ben. I've seen my share of dead people killed in "tramic" ways. I've held dying men in my arms as a first responder telling them it will be okay when I knew better. You never forget it. It is a permanent part of your being now. Peace in your heart knowing to tried to help.
 
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Very sad may they rest in peace.
 
I am so sorry you had to witness such a thing. A difficult thing to brief, the temptation to do the turn must be powerful indeed.
 
RIP to the folks involved.

Ben - sorry you witnessed that sad event. Hope your mind heals the wound sooner rather than later knowing you did all you could do in that situation.
 
Geico266 said:
Turning back is usually a bad idea.
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According to Ben he was on the downwind leg. With plenty of altitude. A simple power off-180 from there.

Sorry you had to see such a sight. I commend you for being one who runs to the aid of others, as futile as it may sometimes be.
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X2
 
Very sad. And, my heart is aching for you, Ben. :sad:
 
Very sad to hear this, and I'm sorry you had to witness it first-hand.
 
N801BH said:
On my way to the airport this afternoon I saw a RV-7 taking off.. Looked like a good departure. I get to the security gate and as I get out, it passes over with a sick sounding motor. About that time the emergency siren sounds to get the fire trucks rolling... I keep watching, hoping he would do a 180 and land back on the runway as he had plenty of altitude.........

He keeps going on the downwind leg and I keep saying to my self, turn back, turn back. Well about 1/2 mile out he tries to turn back, overbanked it and dove STRAIGHT into the ground...... I hauled ass to the scene to see if I could help and being the first person there I witnessed the most horrific sight I have EVER seen.........:sad::sad:

Guys/ gals.. if the motor fails , either get it on the runway or land straight ahead......

PLEASE, PLEASE.... don't stall a plane at 500 AGL...


Godspeed to the couple in N820RV...... It was a beautiful plane too..


I now need a VERY stiff drink...
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about this. Could have also had a fuel leak/fire.
 
dell30rb said:
According to Ben he was on the downwind leg. With plenty of altitude. A simple power off-180 from there.
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Yeah, I don't get this... did he mean "upwind" as in departing straight out? Sure, it's possible to mess up an emergency 180 from abeam the numbers, but much more possible to do it from upwind of the departure threshold, while climbing.
 
Well.....

I spent alot of last night giving statements to the NPS agents in charge, took them to the tower so they could obtain the tower tapes... Seems the policy says the tower cannot release them without a proper request.... I offered to help the park rangers in any way I could... So at 7 am this morning they called and asked if I could pull off a miracle....... What a perfect thing to do to get my mind of that fatal nosedive, so I just spent all day working with the NTSB, park rangers and the local sheriff dept.... As soon as the NTSB released the wreckage to be moved I had a construction lift in place with all the straps needed and lifted the mess and slowly moved it into a secured hangar at Jackson Hole Aviation... Thanks Jeff Brown for donating it,,, that guy is # 1 in my book... I then went back with my double axle trailer and picked up what seemed like thousands of pieces of someones dream. loaded it up and it is also in the secured hangar now... The NTSB needed scales to weigh all the cargo, baggage and other stuff so I dug out my digital scales and set it up for her/ ntsb to use.. Everyone I have met so far like the NTSB gal, the investigators from the National Park Service and the local Sheriff have been outstanding in their duties and I have come away with a new found respect for all of those people

As it stands now they think the prelim investigation will conclude tomorrow and they will release the wreckage to the FAA, then is gets released to the family.. I have arranged to move it to my property to save the estate any storage fees as they are in no position to deal with it now.. The grieving process and funerals come first... I HAVE to help out a fellow pilot and to be honest I have NO idea who this family is, but,,, after reading a bit about him..... he was just like me.......... A true motor head and fabricator... The plane had a trick supercharger and alot of other neat goodies on it and I am sure we would have bonded like brothers... I really feel bad we had never met.. Google N820RV and then hit images... There are several pics of a VERY nice plane.. it is hard to believe it is now reduced to little pieces and scrap aluminum in less then the blink of the eye...


Guy/ gals..... Please..... If the motor quits or for any other reason... do NOT stall your plane at 500AGL....


Godspeed to the pilot and his wife.....:sad::sad::sad:
 
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rottydaddy said:
Yeah, I don't get this... did he mean "upwind" as in departing straight out? Sure, it's possible to mess up an emergency 180 from abeam the numbers, but much more possible to do it from upwind of the departure threshold, while climbing.
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He was on a downwind departure that had him/ her headed basically back to Colorado... They had a failure of some sort at about mid field and where I first saw them about the upwind numbers.. In my mind they could have easily done a 180 and landed safely, but kept going ..:sad::sad::sad:
 
:( Godspeed.





Also, this week would be a good time for the rest of us to practice a couple of power-off 180's..
 
Z06_Mir said:
Also, this week would be a good time for the rest of us to practice a couple of power-off 180's..
Click to expand...

I did a couple early yesterday evening in the 172RG, after realizing I'd never done one in that particular model. Worth noting that the glide behavior is somewhere between a 172 and a 177/182. Real easy to come up short if you assume it's like a 172.
 
Just fly the plane. Just Fly The Plane. Terribly sad and totally avoidable based on the information provided. Arriving on the ground under control is always a better choice than any other alternative. When faced by the reality of an in flight emergency the decisions you make must be ruled by the prime directive of maintaining control no matter what. The first experience of mechanical failure, depending on your training and psychological make up, can be terrifying. Composure under pressure cannot be taught a priori, you have to gain it through exposure. Sadly, many fail the initial test.
 
MAKG1 said:
I did a couple early yesterday evening in the 172RG, after realizing I'd never done one in that particular model. Worth noting that the glide behavior is somewhere between a 172 and a 177/182. Real easy to come up short if you assume it's like a 172.
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Leave the gear up until base, if not final. Keep your hand on the gear handle though as it's your first bit of drag you should be adding. I found my 182RG would glide quite well.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Just fly the plane. Just Fly The Plane. Terribly sad and totally avoidable based on the information provided. Arriving on the ground under control is always a better choice than any other alternative. When faced by the reality of an in flight emergency the decisions you make must be ruled by the prime directive of maintaining control no matter what. The first experience of mechanical failure, depending on your training and psychological make up, can be terrifying. Composure under pressure cannot be taught a priori, you have to gain it through exposure. Sadly, many fail the initial test.
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:yes:

"Terror" is caused by lack of training. An engine out on take off MUST BE INSTINCTIVE REACTION. Lower the nose and get to best glide NOW! Not after fiddling with the starter or fuel selector. After you reach best glide, and have a favorable place to land then look for possible issues.
 
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Z06_Mir said:
Leave the gear up until base, if not final. Keep your hand on the gear handle though as it's your first bit of drag you should be adding. I found my 182RG would glide quite well.
Click to expand...

In an engine out situation and you can make an airport, aim for the middle of the runway, not the numbers. If you come up short you still have runway.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Sadly, many fail the initial test.
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Very true.
I still recall this Bonanza accident from a few decades ago when a door opened up in flight and a female pilot (the only occupant) tried to close it in flight despite numerous earlier warning from Beech and aviation articles that pilots should not attempt to do it in flight. She lost control of the aircraft and in a true kamikaze-like fashion hit a suburban home where a birthday of a child was being celebrated by a couple generations of family members, she killed most of them including the child.
 
Wow, that is something I hope to never witness! Very sad, sounds like a very avoidable outcome.:redface:
RIP to the couple.
 
olasek said:
Very true.
I still recall this Bonanza accident from a few decades ago when a door opened up in flight and a female pilot (the only occupant) tried to close it in flight despite numerous earlier warning from Beech and aviation articles that pilots should not attempt to do it in flight. She lost control of the aircraft and in a true kamikaze-like fashion hit a suburban home where a birthday of a child was being celebrated by a couple generations of family members, she killed most of them including the child.
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Wow. :eek:
 
The accident is treated very thoroughly in the book Aftermath in the chapter Door Open to Disaster.

Bonanza with a door opened in flight is perfectly flyable, stall speed increases by about 2 kts and obviously it is a very noisy environment but perfectly flyable. You really can't close the doors in flight because of a peculiar pressure pattern - the door will assume a natural position with about 1.5" gap.
 
Z06_Mir said:
Also, this week would be a good time for the rest of us to practice a couple of power-off 180's..
Click to expand...

More like have an instructor pull the power on you at random moments to get acclimated to that sudden sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you go from fat dumb and happy to 'oh ****'

I'm guessing the pilot had the stick and rudder skills to make the landing but just let himself get behind and couldn't focus.
 
God Speed to those involved and to you my friend. That took some courage to go up to that airplane.

I just went through this myself. I was about 8 miles out, just having a good old time when all of a sudden I had a violent shake, something that felt like I was hit. Then a vibration that got worse as I throttled back.

I went to full throttle and headed straight for the runway. I did not look for direction of wind...I was landing...

I took the engine apart the other day. I had an oil starvation problem that was caused by the bone head mechanic....That would be me....

I have to replace, crank, cylinders and pistons. But she is in the hangar and I am typing here. I am very lucky. This happened one week ago today.

No way would I ever think about passing over, by, beside or anything but onto the runway ASAP.

I just can not imagine what was going through his or her mind. Screw procedures when you have an emergency. Do what you have to do to stay alive. It sounds like they flew the pattern. I flew straight in. I did not care how I entered the pattern or from what direction, I was landing.
 
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N801BH said:
On my way to the airport this afternoon I saw a RV-7 taking off.. Looked like a good departure. I get to the security gate and as I get out, it passes over with a sick sounding motor. About that time the emergency siren sounds to get the fire trucks rolling... I keep watching, hoping he would do a 180 and land back on the runway as he had plenty of altitude.........

He keeps going on the downwind leg and I keep saying to my self, turn back, turn back. Well about 1/2 mile out he tries to turn back, overbanked it and dove STRAIGHT into the ground...... I hauled ass to the scene to see if I could help and being the first person there I witnessed the most horrific sight I have EVER seen.........:sad::sad:

Guys/ gals.. if the motor fails , either get it on the runway or land straight ahead......

PLEASE, PLEASE.... don't stall a plane at 500 AGL...


Godspeed to the couple in N820RV...... It was a beautiful plane too..


I now need a VERY stiff drink...
Click to expand...

Ben... Dont be afraid to go talk to someone if you need to. Not everyone is accustomed to dealing with someone actively dying or newly dead. In the Fire/EMS business we have what is called CISD.. while it is mostly peers, there are also trained behavioral professionals. I've known many of my peers who have sought a defusing/debriefing session after particularly ugly EMS or Fire runs...

While you aren't necessarily in the business, they would be the best source for a referral to someone who would be familiar firsthand with "really bad things".

A drink or two is a good thing from time to time, but if you find yourself drinking more and more to cope, drop a dime and make an appt to see someone.
 
Doggtyred said:
Ben... Dont be afraid to go talk to someone if you need to. Not everyone is accustomed to dealing with someone actively dying or newly dead. In the Fire/EMS business we have what is called CISD.. while it is mostly peers, there are also trained behavioral professionals. I've known many of my peers who have sought a defusing/debriefing session after particularly ugly EMS or Fire runs...

While you aren't necessarily in the business, they would be the best source for a referral to someone who would be familiar firsthand with "really bad things".

A drink or two is a good thing from time to time, but if you find yourself drinking more and more to cope, drop a dime and make an appt to see someone.
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Good advice. PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) comes in many forms, and not all from the battlefield.
 
Ben do you believe wearing a helmet would have help seeing what you saw?
 
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