Sacramento to KAPA

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Flyingjake

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FlyingJake
My bride & I will be flying my Dakota from Sacramento to Colorado in September. 1st leg from Sacramento to Ogden, UT (461NM direct, 504NM IFR). 2nd leg from Ogden to Denver Centenial KAPA. 341NM direct, 412NM IFR)

Anyone flown from Sacramento to Centennial or areas nearby? I'm looking for any advice or recommendations that you all may have. I'm a comm inst pilot & we'll have O2 on board for the trip too. Thanks.
 
Make sure you have 4 hrs of o2 and get as high as you can. That route is nasty under 15k. And don't do it unless the weather is perfect.
 
Ok. Definitely will meet & exceed the 4 hrs of O2. Any other suggestions on routes?
 
Just look at the terrain on a direct route. Not happy. I'd personally do a South route to clear the highest part of the Rockies then come in the back way. You could go North and do the same thing. Just dogleg it over the highest terrain.
 
Thanks SacArrow. My preferred plan is OGD-V6-CKW-V4-LAR-V575-NIWOT-KAPA. Highest MEA along that route is 13k, so I'm planning on either 13 or 15k. Might look into a southern route as well. Have you flown the northern route before?
 
Follow the state line (CO-WY) until south of Laramie (LAR) then down to FNL then APA. Watch out for extensive student training in the LMO-BDU-BJC area. The whole trip at 11.5 except for that little hill east of DWX. Done it in a cherokee 180, but detoured around the hill.
 
murphey said:
Follow the state line (CO-WY) until south of Laramie (LAR) then down to FNL then APA. Watch out for extensive student training in the LMO-BDU-BJC area. The whole trip at 11.5 except for that little hill east of DWX. Done it in a cherokee 180, but detoured around the hill.
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:thumbsup::yes:
 
Higher the better. I did a similar route in a 172 at FL190

:D
 
Flyingjake said:
Thanks SacArrow. My preferred plan is OGD-V6-CKW-V4-LAR-V575-NIWOT-KAPA.
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Nothing wrong with the route but wouldn't use it unless somebody was twisting my arm.

Just a suggestion: stay VFR over the hills and the route Murphey suggested is good. I fly a portion of it fairly often, FTG - DWX and back. In particular be prepared for a bumpy ride in the area between LAR and FNL. Also watch the arrival corridor for DEN in that area but those guys are pretty high still. Stay up high over the hills and get flight following. In general Denver Approach is very good with traffic advisories even when they are very busy.

If you do go IFR you will most likely get a STAR into the Denver area then get vectored to god-only-knows where. Been-there, done-that, thinking about having tee shirts made. I always try to cancel and then stay out of the big guys way but then I know the airspace fairly well.
 
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Thanks Murphey & Ben. Definitely something I'll check out instead of the long way around up in Wy.

FL190 in a 172 David? Hmm...definitely not any of the 172's I've flown. I'd love to hear ATC on that one..."say type again??"
 
Yeah...I would like to try avoiding the IFR route but would do it if necessary. That's why I'm here asking for suggestions. I kinda figured it would be like getting routed all over heck & highwater in the LA basin when you're IFR.
 
Clark...altitudes are you flying between FTG - DWX? Figure that I could skirt the west side of the Bravo to avoid getting vectored everywhere too. I imagine that they're much like controllers in the SFO Bravo...if you know what you're doing & call it right, you're good to go. If you step on toes or stutter...no way jose!
 
If you have the time and haven't been, drop into Wendover, KENV, and see the museum there. It is the field where the group that dropped. The A bomb trained. Nifty little museum and cafe, (The Enola Gay Cafe.).
 
Flyingjake said:
Clark...altitudes are you flying between FTG - DWX? Figure that I could skirt the west side of the Bravo to avoid getting vectored everywhere too. I imagine that they're much like controllers in the SFO Bravo...if you know what you're doing & call it right, you're good to go. If you step on toes or stutter...no way jose!
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Depending on exact route (around a hill or over) you can do it fairly low, 11.5 works but you can't get flight following that low. Get up to the MEAs and you can get flight following.

The west side of the Bravo isn't too bad. If you ask for vectors and they aren't too busy Denver approach is really good about helping out. They'll probably suggest following I-25.

If you're doing it on your own then stay west of the Bravo and above 8,000 until south of BJC. After that you can drop to 7,000 and go pretty much direct to APA (watch the stadium TFR if the Broncos are playing). It's not a bad idea to stay to the west of the Bravo at 8,500 until further south and then descend and hang a left to APA as appropriate for their landing direction.
 
Flyingjake said:
Clark...altitudes are you flying between FTG - DWX? Figure that I could skirt the west side of the Bravo to avoid getting vectored everywhere too. I imagine that they're much like controllers in the SFO Bravo...if you know what you're doing & call it right, you're good to go. If you step on toes or stutter...no way jose!
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Denver ATC is very good with the entire spectrum of airplanes including us spam cans. Staying to the west of class B isn't needed but if you insist, check the flyway chart for Denver Terminal for suggest routes.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll dive into the sectionals & am looking forward to the trip. Don't hesitate if you've got more advice/suggestions.
 
Jake,
I fly Denver- Chico a fair amount. KSAC-KOGD will put you through restricted areas and MOAs. Either go around the south side (way south) of your proposed route or fly Reno- Lovelock- Battle Mountain- Wendover. You can usually talk to center across the desert if you are 12-14K and they might be able to get through some of the restricted airspace but normally the airspace is in use. I fly through MOAs without concern but the restricted areas are off limits without a clearance. One time I got thru Fallon restricted area only to get to vectored north around R- 6406A. It would have been easier to fly the route I suggested earlier. The military owns quite a chunk of the airspace and uses it frequently.
Good Luck!
 
Thanks for the suggestion Walt. The IFR route I planned was all on victor airways & avoided the restricted areas but I'll definitely look at the southern route too. I'm very familiar w/ operations in MOAs so that isn't a big deal to me but I'm not committed to any particular route.
 
One more suggestion. Move your stop from Ogden to Evanston, just over the hills. Reason: it will save you a tough climb out of Ogden. The mountains are right on top of you and you will have to circle to get to a safe altitude. I had my oil temp alarm go off during the climb. After that experience I went to Evanston, which is at 7000 and has an easy climb out.

Alan
 
alang said:
One more suggestion. Move your stop from Ogden to Evanston, just over the hills. Reason: it will save you a tough climb out of Ogden. The mountains are right on top of you and you will have to circle to get to a safe altitude. I had my oil temp alarm go off during the climb. After that experience I went to Evanston, which is at 7000 and has an easy climb out.

Alan
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KOGD is my home base. I have no issues pointing straight at one of the passes and clearing them in my DA40 even in the summer but your results may be different. If you have to circle it won't take long. If you are an IFR plan, it will take a lot longer to get out of KOGD because ATC will point you in the exact wrong direction until you get somewhere between 11k and 13k and then turn you on course. There is nothing wrong with Evanston and I go there frequently. My only caution is to check the weather. It is often much worse than KOGD with significant wind. Also, check density altitude at Evanston. The runway is really long but you need to make sure you can climb on course beyond the runway.

Lastly, I fly KOGD to KFNL (Fort Collins) quite a bit. On a VFR day right around Rawlins, I cut over to Saratoga (KSAA) and then over to the BARGR intersection. This puts me behind Elk Mountain which I have found to be the source of much turbulence and bad weather. The earlier in the morning you do this flight, the more pleasant it will be.
 
Wingsofglass said:
The earlier in the morning you do this flight, the more pleasant it will be.
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Read the whole thread and just adding a +1 on that sentence.

Also, September... we could be having sporadic high winds by then... although they're usually more into October... (but hell, it's a nice Winter we're having this Spring, right now...) - watch for that.

If the winds at mountain-top level exceed 15 knots or so... you probably don't want to come directly over the Rockies VFR...

And... if you're doing Clark's northerly route, if you do attempt it in high winds aloft, you're going to get absolutely ROCKED... cinch the seat belt down until you lose feeling in your feet and then pull it tighter... LOL! :)
 
Nate's pretty conservative but then he's one of those folks that helps find lost items like airplanes up in the hills. My practice with high winds is to get high. Ya really wanna be more than 1/2 the distance between the valley floor and the peaks above the peaks (if that makes any sense). Since the highest peaks are 14'ers then getting up to 17.5 does a lot of good for smoothing out the ride. Of course when those darn cloud things are up there then ya can't do that and ya really don't want to be IFR unless you can see and avoid the nasty clouds that are rotors or rolls. I generally won't even try IFR unless it's clear on the other end and I can see enough of the layers to know I can get through without being in IMC for a significant period of time.

And then again, the Dakota will ride much better than the Cezzna that Nate drives so there's not so much to worry 'bout!
 
Thanks all for the great advice. Looks like I've got lots of work to do beforehand so I'm glad I asked early.

LOL...Clark don't start picking on Nate for driving a Cessna. I've got lots of time in them too but mostly at low level. Think the highest I've been in a Cessna in the last 5 years or so is about 4000' MSL. Kinda hard to find people & things when you're up too high but they sure have better visibility when looking down.
 
Shall we plan for a CO-POA dinner?
 
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