Run up?!?! What's that?

duc750sport

duc750sport

Pre-takeoff checklist
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duc750sport
I have over 30 hours logged in training.. A few morning's ago I had an early lesson and did my normal weather brief then went out to the aircraft, did my entire (outside) checklist. Got in the cherokee and continued the checklist. Once we were ready to go I acknowledged to my CFI we were ready. She said ok.. I went right to the hold short area of the runway to which she replied.. "Oh.. we're not gonna run up today". I said Oh SH&%! I would have totally realized I was in the wrong are when I looked back down at the checklist. We were the only ones at our airport at the time so she let me run up there. I couldn't believe I did that.. Just goes to show you can never get complacent.. even on the ground!!
 
That's why you're required to fly with a flight instructor before getting your license. :)
 
DaleB said:
That's why you're required to fly with a flight instructor before getting your license. :)
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And once you get your license, you'll never be complacent or make a mistake. :wink2:
 
No, but you'll be a lot less likely once you've had it drilled into your by an instructor. you have an instructor partly to make some things (like checklist use) a habit that will continue after you have your ticket.
 
Our usually do my run-up at the hold short line or an adjacent run-up area at the home field. I hear a lot of other pilots doing the same thing. I like to know everything is okay right before I commit.
 
somorris said:
I like to know everything is okay right before I commit.
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Agreed. One of my training flights (DA20) had to be scrubbed because of something we found during the runup and pre-takeoff checks (electric trim malfunctioned and then the indicator light quit). Everything before that was fine. It would have been a bit scary if this had occurred in the air.


As far as where, many places I've been to so far have had designated places. When there isn't, I usually find a decent spot and then turn to enough to one side so I don't prop blast someone coming up behind me.
 
The one nice thing about flying is you always have a chance to learn from your mistakes. Checklists are important for sure, but having a flow is just as important. Keep learning and fly safe.
 
I do about half my runups at the hold short line - depends on the airport I'm at and the likelihood (or reality) of traffic waiting on me. You can do it pretty quickly or you can drag it out over 5 minutes, so to each their own.

Last week I did a runup while rolling to the runway for the first time, had traffic on two mile final and I wanted out, called tower for an intersection takeoff and was doing the mag check riding the brakes to the intersection at the same time. Certainly not something I would recommend for a student or low-time pilot or anyone unfamiliar with their aircraft, just pointing out that what you are taught as a student is not the only way to get it done. However - WHILE you are still a student - the way your CFI says to do it, is the ONLY way to do it! :yes:
 
airguy said:
Last week I did a runup while rolling to the runway for the first time, had traffic on two mile final and I wanted out,

Certainly not something I would recommend for a student or low-time pilot or anyone unfamiliar with their aircraft, just pointing out that what you are taught as a student is not the only way to get it done. However - WHILE you are still a student - the way your CFI says to do it, is the ONLY way to do it! :yes:
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My CFI had me do several rolling runups during primary training.

"Circumstances may sometimes warrant you knowing how to do this."

I don't do it often at all, I have to buy my own brakes!
 
In Alaska we had to do rolling runups in the winter as the brakes wouldn't hold on the snow.
 
airguy said:
I do about half my runups at the hold short line - depends on the airport I'm at and the likelihood (or reality) of traffic waiting on me. You can do it pretty quickly or you can drag it out over 5 minutes, so to each their own.

Last week I did a runup while rolling to the runway for the first time, had traffic on two mile final and I wanted out, called tower for an intersection takeoff and was doing the mag check riding the brakes to the intersection at the same time. Certainly not something I would recommend for a student or low-time pilot or anyone unfamiliar with their aircraft, just pointing out that what you are taught as a student is not the only way to get it done. However - WHILE you are still a student - the way your CFI says to do it, is the ONLY way to do it! :yes:
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And after a WHILE you may decide that brake riding mag checks are unnecessary or whatever as I have.
 
douglas393 said:
The one nice thing about flying is you always have a chance to learn from your mistakes.
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Actually, no, you don't. One of my keys to survival is to learn from other people's mistakes so I don't try them first in an airplane.

Jeff
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Actually, no, you don't. One of my keys to survival is to learn from other people's mistakes so I don't try them first in an airplane.

Jeff
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I thought the same thing.



In the sea there are countless gains,
But if thou desirest safety, it will be on the shore.

— Saadi (Abū-Muḥammad Muṣliḥ al-Dīn bin Abdallāh Shīrāzī, or سعدی, The Gulistan of Saadi, 1258.

The danger? But danger is one of the attractions of flight.

— Jean Conneau, 1911.

Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
Bill Watson said:
And after a WHILE you may decide that brake riding mag checks are unnecessary or whatever as I have.
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Well, unless you're based on grass. 1700 rpm for a mag check produces normal taxi speed when the grass is getting tallish. Occasionally I'd check the mags on the roll, mostly for grins, but I still always did a full "pre-flight" routine at the end of the runway including another mag check.
 
timwinters said:
Well, unless you're based on grass. 1700 rpm for a mag check produces normal taxi speed when the grass is getting tallish. Occasionally I'd check the mags on the roll, mostly for grins, but I still always did a full "pre-flight" routine at the end of the runway including another mag check.
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I am based on grass and agree that 1700 for a mag check produces a normal taxi in many places around our field.

After really focusing hard on some distraction discipline, I now try to do nothing but taxi while taxiing; no checklists, runups, no programming, no texting, etc, just basic radio work. Grass surfaces imply unevenness and change so I keep an eye out for that too. It took awhile to break the old multitasking habits. There is rarely a real need for it.

Perhaps we get in the habit of multitasking on the ground because we learn to fly under the tyranny of the Hobbs meter and the need for CFI efficiency, in other words, $$$$$$.

On my RV10, I've stopped doing the power runup and tach check. Since I have EGTs all around I've adopted the "look for rising EGTs on all cylinders" technique. If something is wrong during the mag check, not only do you know 'something' but you know which cylinder(s). I think Mike Busch (?) was advocating this.

Bill "Trying to improve my focus but probably just getting old" Watson
 
ScottM said:
BTDT when the taxiways are snowy/icey. Loads of fun! Happens in the lower 48 were we have the solid precip.
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Yup, always fun and a good skill to have. Keep a hand near the ignition though. I put a DA 20 nose first into a snow bank during my private, having killed it quickly once it was clear where I was going (castering nose wheels have disadvantages) meant the penalty for the excursion was getting to push it back onto the taxiway (and turning it by hand)
 
Saw a guy land at CRQ about 2 weeks ago in a DA-20.

He got out while I was pre-flighting - I climbed in - taxied to run-up - saw him get back in as I was turning at the end of the runway for the run up.

When I looked up about 90 seconds later he was sitting right at the hold short line - and #2 in the sequence. I suppose he could have done a run up on the way down the taxiway- I've done it before at an empty pilot controlled airport but never at a towered one where certain procedures are expected. . . .

He could have run it up - and regardless - no DA-20 crashes in SoCal that day . . .
 
comanchepilot said:
Saw a guy land at CRQ about 2 weeks ago in a DA-20.

He got out while I was pre-flighting - I climbed in - taxied to run-up - saw him get back in as I was turning at the end of the runway for the run up.

When I looked up about 90 seconds later he was sitting right at the hold short line - and #2 in the sequence. I suppose he could have done a run up on the way down the taxiway- I've done it before at an empty pilot controlled airport but never at a towered one where certain procedures are expected. . . .

He could have run it up - and regardless - no DA-20 crashes in SoCal that day . . .
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I can do a whole pretakeoff checklist and run up in a da-20 in less time than it takes you to notice I didn't :) Not much to check in them. The only time I take a good amount of time is if I'm about to climb into low IMC.
 
A brand new PPL is a license to learn.

Just like when I got my journeyman lineman's ticket, and they turned me loose on the high voltage stuff all by my little self.

I was scared ****less .... I never made a bad mistake because, I'm still here, and I never hurt anyone. :redface:
 
Bill Jennings said:
My CFI had me do several rolling runups during primary training.

"Circumstances may sometimes warrant you knowing how to do this."

I don't do it often at all, I have to buy my own brakes!
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I will do this at busy Class Bravos where they are working you into a line of planes for TO.
 
jesse said:
I can do a whole pretakeoff checklist and run up in a da-20 in less time than it takes you to notice I didn't :) Not much to check in them. The only time I take a good amount of time is if I'm about to climb into low IMC.
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1700rpm, click left, click both, click right, click both pull the alt air, turn off the alt air, throttle idle.

Takes about as long to do as to read.

Then set the flaps to take off, turn on the pump and off you go
 
tmyers said:
In Alaska we had to do rolling runups in the winter as the brakes wouldn't hold on the snow.
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That was the reason given by my primary CFI. First time I needed it was actually on wet grass. Also helps to have a flow and do it quickly without dawdling in those circumstances.

They do a pretty good job at APA keeping the run-up pads plowed down to asphalt/concrete during snow ops. Hangar rows, not so much.
 
Skylane81E said:
1700rpm, click left, click both, click right, click both pull the alt air, turn off the alt air, throttle idle.

Takes about as long to do as to read.

Then set the flaps to take off, turn on the pump and off you go
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You missed final check of fuel on both, final takeoff trim check, setting mixture for high altitude (heh), prop cycle and oil pressure drop, carb heat, vacuum gauge, voltage regulator failure indicator check (turn off Alt half of master ) and making sure the primer is in and locked, and an idle check.

My 182 flow starts at the floor, fuel selector, final takeoff trim check, then hand up to the throttle to 1700, eyeballs to the oil pressure gauge/engine gauges, then hand moves right to the mixture control to set that, and from there goes alllllll the way to the left wall... stopping at the prop control, carb heat, alt air, eyes to the vacuum pump in the green passing center of yoke (that's where mine lives),? key switch/mag check, master alt loop check off/on, and primer. Since my vacuum is slightly below green at idle I usually check the DG on the way by also while the RPM is up, but that's final checked on the runway at lineup so it's semi-optional in the runup flow. The last item is throttle to idle to make sure it will idle without dying, then back to 800-900 RPM. That got added after I flew a 172 that had the idle set wrong and the prop stopped six feet in the air on landing. Glad I didn't do power off stalls that day. Guess we must have taxied with the throttle above idle and gotten a departure clearance without a stop at the hold-short line back when I went only back down to 800-900 like the POH calls for on most airplanes. Would have gotten to practice my restart flow for real. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
You missed final check of fuel on both, final takeoff trim check, setting mixture for high altitude (heh), prop cycle and oil pressure drop, carb heat, vacuum gauge, voltage regulator failure indicator check (turn off Alt half of master ) and making sure the primer is in and locked, and an idle check.

My 182 flow starts at the floor, fuel selector, final takeoff trim check, then hand up to the throttle to 1700, eyeballs to the oil pressure gauge/engine gauges, then hand moves right to the mixture control to set that, and from there goes alllllll the way to the left wall... stopping at the prop control, carb heat, alt air, eyes to the vacuum pump in the green passing center of yoke (that's where mine lives),? key switch/mag check, master alt loop check off/on, and primer. Since my vacuum is slightly below green at idle I usually check the DG on the way by also while the RPM is up, but that's final checked on the runway at lineup so it's semi-optional in the runup flow. The last item is throttle to idle to make sure it will idle without dying, then back to 800-900 RPM. That got added after I flew a 172 that had the idle set wrong and the prop stopped six feet in the air on landing. Glad I didn't do power off stalls that day. Guess we must have taxied with the throttle above idle and gotten a departure clearance without a stop at the hold-short line back when I went only back down to 800-900 like the POH calls for on most airplanes. Would have gotten to practice my restart flow for real. ;)
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"Both" for takeoffs & landings then;

The run about 15 minutes on each "left" & "right" making sure it can feed properly is what I normally do. I have seen a fuel pressure change between the two and yes the fuel vent was plugged on one tank that day.
 
Who does a run up before every lift off? I'll admit I don't. Maybe it's wrong, but somehow I was trained that after initial runup, for that day, if you're flying all day, you don't need to do another one.

Unless of coarse it's your PIC decision to do so... if it sounds or feels different on the second or third startup, naturally we'd do one.
 
Well, what can break between the initial run-up and subsequent ones? The engine temperature has changed, moving parts have been moved, sparks have been fired, vacuum has been sucked, and lots of electricity has flowed, started and stopped. So, the answer would seem to be quite a lot, even if flown perfectly.

I'll at least do a mag check at every lift off. And a run-up also has the side effect of warming up the engine while still on the ground. Your engine will make better power warmed, as the piston rings fit tighter, valves open more positively (less slop), and so on. You're also less likely to take off with ice in the carb. BTDT, and it's not fun.
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, what can break between the initial run-up and subsequent ones? The engine temperature has changed, moving parts have been moved, sparks have been fired, vacuum has been sucked, and lots of electricity has flowed, started and stopped. So, the answer would seem to be quite a lot, even if flown perfectly.

I'll at least do a mag check at every lift off. And a run-up also has the side effect of warming up the engine while still on the ground. Your engine will make better power warmed, as the piston rings fit tighter, valves open more positively (less slop), and so on. You're also less likely to take off with ice in the carb. BTDT, and it's not fun.
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It's a PIC thing. Down here, in the summer, you can park your plane after a flight for probably two hours, and it won't cool off much if it's outside.

If it's Winter, and a re-start shows a complete cold engine, then I'll do a run up naturally. I'll taxi with the cowls closed to try and let her warm up. I try to never shove WOT on anything less than a warmed up engine.

I should probably start doing run ups every startup. It goes against my logic not to, and is a bad habit some guru put in my head not to have to do one every time. :redface:
 
bnt83 said:
"Both" for takeoffs & landings then;

The run about 15 minutes on each "left" & "right" making sure it can feed properly is what I normally do. I have seen a fuel pressure change between the two and yes the fuel vent was plugged on one tank that day.
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Never seen a fuel pressure gauge on a Cessna. I'm sure they exist. Just saying they're not that common.
 
txflyer said:
Who does a run up before every lift off? I'll admit I don't. Maybe it's wrong, but somehow I was trained that after initial runup, for that day, if you're flying all day, you don't need to do another one.

Unless of coarse it's your PIC decision to do so... if it sounds or feels different on the second or third startup, naturally we'd do one.
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Engine started fine after a fuel pit stop in North Platte. The fact that a plug wire had fallen clean off wasn't noticeable until the runup and mag check.

It's kinda dumb not to check things you can still check while on the ground. Only takes a few seconds.

Plus around here we are going to have to set the mixture anyway. Can't leave the thing full rich for takeoff, and without a number of hours in the same aircraft, guessing where to set it would be inadvisable.

I think the biggest reason folks don't do run ups is because they'll sit there and treat the checklist as a do-list and take bloody forever doing the runup.
 
denverpilot said:
You missed final check of fuel on both, final takeoff trim check, setting mixture for high altitude (heh), prop cycle and oil pressure drop, carb heat, vacuum gauge, voltage regulator failure indicator check (turn off Alt half of master ) and making sure the primer is in and locked, and an idle check.

My 182 flow starts at the floor, fuel selector, final takeoff trim check, then hand up to the throttle to 1700, eyeballs to the oil pressure gauge/engine gauges, then hand moves right to the mixture control to set that, and from there goes alllllll the way to the left wall... stopping at the prop control, carb heat, alt air, eyes to the vacuum pump in the green passing center of yoke (that's where mine lives),? key switch/mag check, master alt loop check off/on, and primer. Since my vacuum is slightly below green at idle I usually check the DG on the way by also while the RPM is up, but that's final checked on the runway at lineup so it's semi-optional in the runup flow. The last item is throttle to idle to make sure it will idle without dying, then back to 800-900 RPM. That got added after I flew a 172 that had the idle set wrong and the prop stopped six feet in the air on landing. Glad I didn't do power off stalls that day. Guess we must have taxied with the throttle above idle and gotten a departure clearance without a stop at the hold-short line back when I went only back down to 800-900 like the POH calls for on most airplanes. Would have gotten to practice my restart flow for real. ;)
Click to expand...


DA20...
 
txflyer said:
Who does a run up before every lift off? I'll admit I don't. Maybe it's wrong, but somehow I was trained that after initial runup, for that day, if you're flying all day, you don't need to do another one.

Unless of coarse it's your PIC decision to do so... if it sounds or feels different on the second or third startup, naturally we'd do one.
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Every lift off? No, but every flight yes.
 
Why not do the runup at the hold short line? It takes like 10-15 secs max in most GA singles...
 
SkyHog said:
Why not do the runup at the hold short line? It takes like 10-15 secs max in most GA singles...
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That's not a runup, that's a waste of avgas and a false sense of security.


You need to take you're time, the "click, click, click, good!" ain't worth doing.

Go left mag, let it stabilize and listen to it for a few seconds, both, stabilize, listen, etc. Same with carb heat.


On rolling runups, on soft or slick surfaces that are fine, when you are operating in very dusty or gravel areas I like to do rolling runups, also in seaplanes I tend to do more rolling runups :wink2:
 
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