Rude and Entitled People #2

Tim Cobb

Tim Cobb

Pre-Flight
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
Messages
58
Location
Fort Lupton, CO
Display Name
Display name:
HairyGoateeGuy
The other day after my run-up I was #2 in line to take off. The tower had told me I was #2. I waited a ways back to stay out of the #1 planes prop wash. All of a sudden, this other plane (name starts with a B and has a strange forked tail) roars up the taxi way and cuts infront of me. I got on the radio and asked the tower if I was now #3 for take-off? Not a word was said, not an "excuse me" or a "gee man I'm sorry", nada. Is this normal in the aviation world?
 
Last edited:
Tim Cobb said:
The other day after my run-up I was #2 in line to take off. The tower had told me I was #2. I waited a ways back to stay out of the #1 planes prop wash. All of a sudden, this other plane (name starts with a B and has a strange forked tail) roars up the taxi way and cuts infront of me. I got on the radio and asked the tower if I was now #3 for take-off? Not a word was said, not an "excuse me" or a "gee man I'm sorry", nada. Is this normal in the aviation world?
Click to expand...

As for the fuel pump dude, I would have told him to pump his damned fuel and move the plane, but this one, If you were sitting back and far enough off to the side, he may have thought you were waiting out of the way for something. Normally people don't switch to tower from ground until they are up to hold point. If ground didn't tell him to wait behind you and you were out of the way far enough to be passed by, well, you got passed by. If I'm sitting in line waiting for the runway, I'm square in the middle.
 
Bo drivers have places to go, things to do and people to see, and you pisants just need to stay the hell out of their way. You can tell because they taxi at ~1,600 RPM and it's not uncommon to see them exceed 2k during engine start. You can tell by the full compression of the nose strut.

Tim Cobb said:
The other day after my run-up I was #2 in line to take off. The tower had told me I was #2. I waited a ways back to stay out of the #1 planes prop wash. All of a sudden, this other plane (name starts with a B and has a strange forked tail) roars up the taxi way and cuts infront of me. I got on the radio and asked the tower if I was now #3 for take-off? Not a word was said, not an "excuse me" or a "gee man I'm sorry", nada. Is this normal in the aviation world?
Click to expand...
 
Tim Cobb said:
The other day after my run-up I was #2 in line to take off. The tower had told me I was #2. I waited a ways back to stay out of the #1 planes prop wash. All of a sudden, this other plane (name starts with a B and has a strange forked tail) roars up the taxi way and cuts infront of me. I got on the radio and asked the tower if I was now #3 for take-off? Not a word was said, not an "excuse me" or a "gee man I'm sorry", nada. Is this normal in the aviation world?
Click to expand...
To actually answer the question...I haven't run across it often. In any population of people, there seem to always be a few jerks.

Having said that, I don't know the arrangement of taxiways or runways at your airport, or how far back you were- it may have been far enough back that the tower and the pilot in the other plane were confused about your intentions as Henning hinted. Did you hear the ground instruction for the other plane? What was Tower's response to your question about now being #3?
 
I sense a possible pattern here. In this case, the OP "waited a ways back" and in his first Rude and Entitled People post, he was apparently waiting a ways back from the fuel pump (otherwise, how did the twin driver pulled up in front of him). I can see how other pilots might not realize that he was in line for takeoff or fuel because he was sitting so far back.
 
kkoran said:
I sense a possible pattern here. In this case, the OP "waited a ways back" and in his first Rude and Entitled People post, he was apparently waiting a ways back from the fuel pump (otherwise, how did the twin driver pulled up in front of him). I can see how other pilots might not realize that he was in line for takeoff or fuel because he was sitting so far back.
Click to expand...


Actually at the pump he pulled in front of me just as I was taxing up to the area which was ok.

At the runway I was back two plane lengths just to avoid prop wash. The Bo "Squeezed" in.

Either way, its all good I got to fly and thats what counts. I don't let people live in my head rent free. lol
 
Last edited:
wabower said:
Bo drivers have places to go, things to do and people to see, and you pisants just need to stay the hell out of their way. You can tell because they taxi at ~1,600 RPM and it's not uncommon to see them exceed 2k during engine start. You can tell by the full compression of the nose strut.
Click to expand...
lmfao....
 
I will admit that, from time to time, I have experienced a Very Long Wait while a 172 conducted an Extremely Lengthy Runup, but unless you were sitting in such a location as to make it clear you were in no way ready to go, there's no reason why anyone should taxi past you.

The other obvious question needing an answer is, if you had already checked in ready to go with Tower (and you had), did Tower still give the Bo a takeoff clearance ahead of you? If so, the Tower's actions were out of line. If, at my home 'drome, I taxied up and in front of someone who was waiting for takeoff without first verifying sequence, I'd expect a phone number to call.

In any event, the privilege of watching a Bonanza gracefully take flight, its exquisite form magically transforming a theretofore-mundane day into a shining beacon of joy and hope, should have disgorged any ill feelings you may have had.
 
This is why you were born with a mouth. Next time key the mic. and let the BO driver know he is a twitless, pigon faced, peice of Sh..!:yikes:
 
SCCutler said:
In any event, the privilege of watching a Bonanza gracefully take flight, its exquisite form magically transforming a theretofore-mundane day into a shining beacon of joy and hope, should have disgorged any ill feelings you may have had.
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
SCCutler said:
In any event, the privilege of watching a Bonanza gracefully take flight, its exquisite form magically transforming a theretofore-mundane day into a shining beacon of joy and hope, should have disgorged any ill feelings you may have had.
Click to expand...

I just threw up in my mouth.
 
SCCutler said:
In any event, the privilege of watching a Bonanza gracefully take flight, its exquisite form magically transforming a theretofore-mundane day into a shining beacon of joy and hope, should have disgorged any ill feelings you may have had.
Click to expand...

:rofl:
 
SCCutler said:
In any event, the privilege of watching a Bonanza gracefully take flight, its exquisite form magically transforming a theretofore-mundane day into a shining beacon of joy and hope, should have disgorged any ill feelings you may have had.
Click to expand...

This is why I have to keep my feet up off the floor when conversing with some board members--very well put :rofl:

Best,

Dave
 
SCCutler said:
The other obvious question needing an answer is, if you had already checked in ready to go with Tower (and you had), did Tower still give the Bo a takeoff clearance ahead of you? If so, the Tower's actions were out of line. If, at my home 'drome, I taxied up and in front of someone who was waiting for takeoff without first verifying sequence, I'd expect a phone number to call.

.
Click to expand...

I'd also want to know what the tower did. That said there may be a valid reason for the line butt . I suppose the Bo could have had a and IFR clearance with a very short clearance void time and the tower authorized the line butt. However there should certainly have been communication with you to let you know what was going on.

How did the tower repond to your query about now being #3?
 
I've seen some questionable behavior at my home airport similair to what OP mentioned.

1. Doing T&Gs - just turned downwind in a C150. A Piper transitions midfield and cuts in front of me on downwind. Me: "Traffic, Cessna ----- is now number 3 in the pattern".

2. I'm on 1/2 mile final (which is best practice at this airport) 300' AGL - Plane pulls onto the RWY and starts his takeoff anyway. Never said a word.

3. The radio - people always making comments to one another. I did my first solo yesterday. After a full stop landing I say "Traffic, Cessna ------ is clear of the active at delta". To which I hear "Good" broadcast over the radio. I've also heard replies like "thanks for the warning", "it's about time", etc. Not to me but to others.

Most people are usually courteous though. I don't have much experience in aviation so I'm indifferent to these things. Intuitively they all seem a little rude but I'll give them the benefit of a doubt.
 
MadseasoN said:
I've seen some questionable behavior at my home airport similair to what OP mentioned.

1. Doing T&Gs - just turned downwind in a C150. A Piper transitions midfield and cuts in front of me on downwind. Me: "Traffic, Cessna ----- is now number 3 in the pattern".

2. I'm on 1/2 mile final (which is best practice at this airport) 300' AGL - Plane pulls onto the RWY and starts his takeoff anyway. Never said a word.

3. The radio - people always making comments to one another. I did my first solo yesterday. After a full stop landing I say "Traffic, Cessna ------ is clear of the active at delta". To which I hear "Good" broadcast over the radio. I've also heard replies like "thanks for the warning", "it's about time", etc. Not to me but to others.

Most people are usually courteous though. I don't have much experience in aviation so I'm indifferent to these things. Intuitively they all seem a little rude but I'll give them the benefit of a doubt.
Click to expand...

OK, well, let's consider the three scenarios you provide.

1. If someone enters midfield on the 45 (IAW with AIM-recommended procedure), unless you're within 1/4 mile of midfield, that's the way it's supposed to work. If you're on crosswind, he's way ahead of you. If you're on base, you're way ahead.

2. The plane that pulled ahead of you may not have a radio, therefore unable to say anything. If you were that close, I'd say the guy isn't paying attention and unfairly forced you to adjust, but if you were full flaps final in a C152 1/2 mile from the runway -- you were 40+ seconds away. Close, but not an incursion.

3. The "Clear of the active" announcement is a nice courtesy, but isn't required.

So while I'm sure you've encountered your share of discourteous types, keep in mind that students and new pilots are like STUDENT DRIVERS on the highway -- doing 55, hands at 10 & 2 -- the works.

The other pilots are like jaded commuters that don't understand why anyone would ever drive that slow!
 
MadseasoN said:
3. The radio - people always making comments to one another. I did my first solo yesterday. After a full stop landing I say "Traffic, Cessna ------ is clear of the active at delta". To which I hear "Good" broadcast over the radio. I've also heard replies like "thanks for the warning", "it's about time", etc. Not to me but to others.
Click to expand...

Such a radio call at most airports would cause me to think about a jokingly snide remark as well, since it is not only a "non-required" call, but is also frowned upon at busy airports without visibility obstructions. Anyone can see when you're clear of the active, so why announce it?
 
SkyHog said:
Such a radio call at most airports would cause me to think about a jokingly snide remark as well, since it is not only a "non-required" call, but is also frowned upon at busy airports without visibility obstructions. Anyone can see when you're clear of the active, so why announce it?
Click to expand...
I like people announcing "clear of runway thus-and-such", especially when I'm taking off. Sometimes it's hard to see a little airplane at the other end of the runway, especially if the runway has any kind of hump in it.
 
SkyHog said:
Such a radio call at most airports would cause me to think about a jokingly snide remark as well, since it is not only a "non-required" call, but is also frowned upon at busy airports without visibility obstructions. Anyone can see when you're clear of the active, so why announce it?
Click to expand...
If the radio is clear, I may mention I'm clear of the active. If busy, I probably would not. Time to bring out the FAR-AIM to settle this...
 
Everskyward said:
I like people announcing "clear of runway thus-and-such", especially when I'm taking off. Sometimes it's hard to see a little airplane at the other end of the runway, especially if the runway has any kind of hump in it.
Click to expand...

Such is the case at my home drome. When I get 1/2 down the runway I cannot see the plane holding short at rw 20. Our SOP is to announce clear. However, since we're pilot controlled there isn't an "active" runway. ;)
 
Cap'n Jack said:
If the radio is clear, I may mention I'm clear of the active. If busy, I probably would not. Time to bring out the FAR-AIM to settle this...
Click to expand...
At a pilot controlled airport all runways are basically 'active', announcing clear of a specific runway is more useful.
 
Last edited:
ScottM said:
At a pilot controlled airport all runways are basically 'active', announcing clear of a specific runway is more useful as.
Click to expand...


Unless you're at one of the thousands of uncontrolled fields with a single runway.

In that case, I'm ok with "Clear of the active."

:smile:
 
dmccormack said:
Unless you're at one of the thousands of uncontrolled fields with a single runway.

In that case, I'm ok with "Clear of the active."

:smile:
Click to expand...
Except that people get used to the idea of the runway they chose to land on as active, then they fly to airport with more than one runway and have a mouth on automatic that states 'active'. Better to build a good habit from day one, then you do not have to remember which phrase to use.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
If the radio is clear, I may mention I'm clear of the active. If busy, I probably would not. Time to bring out the FAR-AIM to settle this...
Click to expand...

ScottM said:
At a pilot controlled airport all runways are basically 'active', announcing clear of a specific runway is more useful.
Click to expand...

EppyGA said:
Was waiting for someone to bring that up :D
Click to expand...
Point taken...thanks for the correction.

I assume that the FAR-AIM is Ok with annoucing "clear of runway N"? I can't look it up myself just now...will wait until I get home...
 
jesse said:
In that case, you just say which runway you're clear of.
Click to expand...

Which is what you should do. That and saying clear of XX helps anyone just coming in on the frequency get a picture of what runway(s) are being used - of course, they aren't bound to use them, but it helps get a picture.
 
jesse said:
In that case, you just say which runway you're clear of.
Click to expand...

Does it really matter which runway? If you are not on a runway
then you aren't in conflict with departing or landing traffic.

just asking...
 
Depends on the airport layout and custom. We typically switch to tower while driving down the taxiway to:
1. get a place in line and
2. give them some time to start coordinating our relsease.

When approaching the end, you have no way to know how many of the little airplanes will sit there another 10 minutes running checklists or whatever the hell they do before they call the tower.

Henning said:
As for the fuel pump dude, I would have told him to pump his damned fuel and move the plane, but this one, If you were sitting back and far enough off to the side, he may have thought you were waiting out of the way for something. Normally people don't switch to tower from ground until they are up to hold point. If ground didn't tell him to wait behind you and you were out of the way far enough to be passed by, well, you got passed by. If I'm sitting in line waiting for the runway, I'm square in the middle.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
Depends on the airport layout and custom. We typically switch to tower while driving down the taxiway to:
1. get a place in line and
2. give them some time to start coordinating our relsease.

When approaching the end, you have no way to know how many of the little airplanes will sit there another 10 minutes running checklists or whatever the hell they do before they call the tower.
Click to expand...

Agreed - we have such a long taxi route that, unless its really cold, we're likely to be ready to go when we get close, and (like Wayne notes) there are a lot of folks who like to get to the runup pad then fiddle-fart around for quite a long time. Then, they call in ready to go in some language known neither to man nor beast, such that after the third try and amazingly-bizarre readbacks, the instructor pops on and transacts some business, lest they burn up the entire lesson trying for takeoff clearance.

I usually have my IFR clearance before I get to taxiway alpha (parallel to the runway), and have the runup and necessary programming / frequency-ing done before I get to the departure end. An early call-in can make a real difference.

dmccormack said:
Unless you're at one of the thousands of uncontrolled fields with a single runway.

In that case, I'm ok with "Clear of the active."

:smile:
Click to expand...

I just say, "clear of all runways," thus relieving myself of the unreasonable burden of remembering the runway identifier.

I also appreciate others announcing when clear of the runways; it is useful information.
 
AdamZ said:
I'd also want to know what the tower did. That said there may be a valid reason for the line butt . I suppose the Bo could have had a and IFR clearance with a very short clearance void time and the tower authorized the line butt. However there should certainly have been communication with you to let you know what was going on.

How did the tower repond to your query about now being #3?
Click to expand...


I'm sure we were all on the tower frequency. The tower didn't say anything. The Bo was right on the tail of the #1 plane, maybe 5 feet back. As I mentioned, the Bo "squeezed" in between us. Even my CFI said "Woa, that's not cool." I'm surprised the #1 plane didn't get nervous with the Bo prop up his tail that far. Live and learn.
 
The unicom is way too busy most of the time...
Why say "clear" of anything? Other than a hump in the runway or some such, the traffic can see if you are still on the runway or not... IF they cannot see that the runway is clear then no matter what you say they have no business taking off or landing until they can, eh!

denny-o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top