routing thru/around Chicago

Ron Levy said:
Going from Findlay OH to Lone Rock WI at 8000 yesterday, we were given the choice of V38 KELSI or across the middle of the lake. We chose the "overland" route. The let us turn north about 15 east of KELSI.
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Ron you teaching out at KLNR this week???
 
roncachamp said:
Don't see why that would be. VFR aircraft aren't drawn to KELSI.
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Yes they are, VFR flight following aircraft talking to RFD or ZAU are advised that they should proceed direct KELSI, direct destination if they want to keep flight following. I've been going past KELSI since long before I was instrument rated.
 
There is NO doubt in my mind that just crossing the lake, like Whaterskiier says, is the best and safest routing. Just climb parallel to the shore, get altitude and cross... it's about ~45nm there. The small risk of the engine quitting and going in the drink it perhaps less than adding over an hour to the flight around the west side, or staying low over the lake around the east side.

Heck, going north, if one doesn't like crossing, makes more sense than going west of Chicago.

As for flying in Chicago's class B, my first choice is to avoid it VFR, but I've sure had a lot better luck with Class B clearances, both IFR and VFR in the Chicago area. Better than talking to Center, and way better than STL, and other class Bs.

Go over the lake....
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yes they are, VFR flight following aircraft talking to RFD or ZAU are advised that they should proceed direct KELSI, direct destination if they want to keep flight following. I've been going past KELSI since long before I was instrument rated.
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I'd drop the flight following. Still, aircraft at KELSI would be in contact with ATC.
 
Ron Levy said:
Going from Findlay OH to Lone Rock WI at 8000 yesterday, we were given the choice of V38 KELSI or across the middle of the lake. We chose the "overland" route. The let us turn north about 15 east of KELSI.
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We also got some charity turns short of KELSI. It was jumpers (maybe skydive Chicago?) and they turned us inside of the intersection and we were not that far around the class B.
 
Larryo said:
There is NO doubt in my mind that just crossing the lake, like Whaterskiier says, is the best and safest routing. Just
Go over the lake....
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Engines do quit however: this was on the East side of Chicago just shy of Kankakee ... until that EDM engine monitor adds "continous magnaflux" to its probes you can never bet that a well behaved machine won't abruptly quit.

Of all the scary conversations I don't want to have with my nine year old daughter "now Daddy's going to kick out the window and the water is going to rush in much faster and its really cold and we're going to have to fight to hold our breaths and the radio is in a plastic bag and you can use it just like Daddy's showed you and don't look back for me just shinny out without getting your life vest hung up on the torn metal edges" is one nightmare I can cross off my list by simply adding an hour or so to the flight.

Yes, we expose ourselves for ten minutes at a time when we cross the tip of door county but its much shorter, and we orbit the island twice or thrice in the climb to commune with the engine a bit.

Until I trade up for that beat up old Skymaster I am fantasizing about I'll go around.
 

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gprellwitz said:
Hmmm... Is that a checkbook in your hand there? How appropriate!:eek:
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Yes it was and for the life of me I cannot remember what we were writing it out for? The picture was the next day and the AVEMCO agent had met us at the airport. The 170 was in an auto impound lot and maybe we wrote them a small check to cover storing it till it sorted out?

The insurance gives you "right of first refusal" at the salvage auction and I could have bought it back. I didn't and it was probably just as well.
 
twdeckard said:
We also got some charity turns short of KELSI. It was jumpers (maybe skydive Chicago?) and they turned us inside of the intersection and we were not that far around the class B.
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Chicago Center is very good about offering an early turn once you're clear of where you would hit Chicago Approach's airspace. But, I do ask them for "direct when able" these days, just to be sure.

Last time I actually flew over KELSI itself was when RFD forgot to hand me off... Almost had to squawk 7600 because while they could hear me asking if they forgot me, I couldn't hear the new frequency they were giving me.
 
twdeckard said:
Engines do quit however: this was on the East side of Chicago just shy of Kankakee ... until that EDM engine monitor adds "continous magnaflux" to its probes you can never bet that a well behaved machine won't abruptly quit.

Of all the scary conversations I don't want to have with my nine year old daughter "now Daddy's going to kick out the window and the water is going to rush in much faster and its really cold and we're going to have to fight to hold our breaths and the radio is in a plastic bag and you can use it just like Daddy's showed you and don't look back for me just shinny out without getting your life vest hung up on the torn metal edges" is one nightmare I can cross off my list by simply adding an hour or so to the flight. ....
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Twdec,

I can appreciate that.. and your engine could quit over Chicago, Milwaukee or... worse, out over the southern part of the lake if they vector you out there...

But, if you just DON'T want to fly one minute over the lake, go around to the north. The southern route will had more miles and be higher risk over populated areas.....

I still think that the few minutes of "lake risk" is worth the extra hour of over suburbs, cities and the extra flight time hassle..... but, your choice.
 
Larryo said:
I can appreciate that.. and your engine could quit over Chicago, Milwaukee or...
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That's why I always go for the lake shore. If I'm a mile out over the lake, I can fly base toward shore and final down the beach. Lots of spots going around the west side of the ORD Bravo you are utterly screwed.

worse, out over the southern part of the lake if they vector you out there...
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Won't happen - They have to actually talk to you for you to get vectored. :rolleyes: (Okay, it'll happen in Milwaukee...)

But, if you just DON'T want to fly one minute over the lake, go around to the north. The southern route will had more miles and be higher risk over populated areas.....
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Sometimes I wish I lived farther north so that going around the north side would be worthwhile. It's not too tough to stay feet dry crossing from Schoolcraft over Beaver Island.

I still think that the few minutes of "lake risk" is worth the extra hour of over suburbs, cities and the extra flight time hassle..... but, your choice.
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Going north or down the shoreline, there is no lake risk, and that's best of all. :yes:

However, going IFR via the route that Todd took is WELL away from the city (those routes are assigned to keep us from talking to Chicago Approach) with lots of farm fields to land in.
 
I would opt for the VFR just offshore route... Scenic and fun...

What I really, really, like to do however (and do with Detroit ATC who believe they are in control of the universe) is go over top squawking VFR and listen to them whining to the cattle haulers, " . . . at eleven five, UNVERIFIED!"
One time over Detroit, they called me out to a cattle hauler coming from behind and to my left at 11,000, " . . . yadda, yadda, at eleven five, UNVERIFIED!".. I twisted and looked back and could see him coming... He cruised by me close enough that I could clearly see into the cockpit in the bright sunshine at the co-pilot who gave me a wave (waved back)... VFR at its' best...

denny-o
 
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