Routing Question KJWN --> KMQY

AndrewX

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Andrew
I want to fly VFR from KJWN to KMQY. The direct route is through the Nashville Class C. I had a CFII recommend I stay under the shelf, but that seems dangerous and unnecessary to me.

Should I:

1. Somehow get clearance before departing?
2. Take off and then contact Nashville Approach?
3. Other?
 
Why would it be dangerous?
Just about to say the same. Ha!

Due to the fact that Nashville is a relatively busy Class C, I’d recommend picking up Flight Following after departing John Tune. I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave you ‘direct Nashville’ to overfly the field as you traverse eastbound to keep you out of the approach and departure corridors.
 
The comfortable thing to do would be to fly under the shelf simply because all 3 airports are so close. I’d pick up flight following for sure for everyone’s benefit. You are likely to get vectors when you call up for FF which may or may not take you thru the Class C. Vectors directly over the C Airport is a common strategy. Remain clear is an equally common ATC strategy, just depends.

OTOH, requesting direct immediately after takeoff as you climb on a direct heading is fine. Good practice for good radio work while flying a vector and a climb and doing the squawk, etc.

In an hour I will be doing exactly the latter at KRDU taking off from 8NC8 to SDZ. I’ve done it many times but know it will be busy for the first 5 mins.


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KJWN's A/FD entry provides 119.35 as a frequency for Nashville Approach and 124.55 for clearance delivery, which the remarks say goes to BNA (Nashville) Approach. Either one of those should work to ask for flight following if you can reach them on the ground. Class C entry requirements are two-way radio contact with ATC, so just talking to Nashville Approach is enough to get you through. But you should have a backup plan in case it doesn't work out for some reason. It adds 1 nm to the trip to go around the south side of the inner class C core, under the shelf.
 
The class C shelf is 2100, the VFR minimum altitude in that area is 2,200. If I fly at 2000 feet, I'm 200 feet below the min altitude. There's a tower on the route at 2049. I consider that dangerous. But hey, I'm still a beginner.
 
The class C shelf is 2100, the VFR minimum altitude in that area is 2,200. If I fly at 2000 feet, I'm 200 feet below the min altitude. There's a tower on the route at 2049. I consider that dangerous. But hey, I'm still a beginner.
Never fly a route that you're not comfortable with.

The MEF on a sectional is not a minimum altitude to fly. It is the highest terrain in that grid square plus the highest obstacle in that grid square plus a safety margin. So if the ground is mostly flat at 1,000 MSL and there is a hilltop at 2,000 MSL and, nowhere near the hill, a tower that rises to 2,000 MSL (1,000 AGL), the MEF will be 3,000 MSL plus the safety margin even though you can fly at 2,500 anywhere in that area and be 500 feet above any terrain or obstacle.

So I am looking at the chart in that area and I would want to be 1,000 feet above the ground over the city. So with that goal in mind, you could fly at 1,500 or 2,000 MSL under the shelf, go east to avoid the big 2049 tower, then hug the inner core a bit to avoid the other 2049 towers. But only if you're comfortable with that plan. I don't even know if I would fly that way because I don't know anything about that area that I didn't just read on the sectional chart.

I would probably call up clearance delivery listed in the KJWN A/FD entry and ask for flight following direct from Tune to Smyrna at 3500 feet and see what they say.
 
If you’re not comfortable with the altitude, you’re PIC... use all available options to make your flight as safe as you desire it to be. :)

As far as the CFI recommendation, maybe they’re trying to keep your workload down and/or they’re concerned about your ability to divide attention between the radio work and the rest of it? Can’t read minds from here, so dunno...

If I were planning that flight, I’d PLAN to go around to the south, and then start asking for direct from Nashville as soon as I was aloft. If they’re busy, and I can’t talk to them, my plan still works. If they answer I say I’m planning direct and see how that works into their world.

It’s such a short flight, loading the plane and the pre-flight would take longer than going all the way around, especially with any passengers, so not much of an issue either way. If I was really on the ball, the pre-flight including weather check and whatnot from the iPad, would be a few minutes shorter than the flight itself. Barely.

Noting the towers is a good thing, of course... looks like there’s plenty of them. As well as noting “stadiums” there, since there’s some overflight rules for those... just know where you are at all times, and don’t hit them. ;)

Low level flights over yellow colored areas always adds a bit of risk, anyway... “Where to put this thing down if the engine quits...”

I don’t disagree with your assessment, but could see going through there also. Personally I’d like a couple thousand feet of air, AGL, under the airplane over a congested area like that, just for a few more seconds to look for a suitable off airport landing location if needed.

Mostly as a thought exercise for you, if you told me for some weird reason we really really really needed to go straight line from takeoff right across there, there’s always the facility phone number... I’d call em and ask what they can do for us coming off of KJWN. Like maybe you have a mission where you’re trying to shoot some very specific video for the flight sequence, or something oddball like that. Controllers will work with ya, if you absolutely had to do it.

But in general, planning to fly all the way around and then asking for better, seems reasonable. Heck, you get them to answer you, they might vector you all the way around anyway... you never know what’s going on in the airspace.

Maybe there’s some guys who called up and said they need to shoot some video, and the controllers need to keep an open space for them until they pop up! ;)
 
It is the highest terrain in that grid square plus the highest obstacle in that grid square plus a safety margin.
Yes and that safety margin is generally the highest point within that grid + 500ft.
 
I finished my PPC at JWN several years ago, and before I finished up at JWN we actually did the exact flight you're talking about. We skirted the entire class C on the north side without flight following. In hindsight, I would've done it differently by getting flight following. I fly out of M54 now on the east side of Nashville. One of our flying club members is a retired controller from BNA, and he arranged for a TRACON and tower tour last fall. I and someone else asked a similar question of the controllers while on the tour.

First, they all said, "Please call us and get flight following. It makes our lives a LOT easier." They had lots of stories of VFR targets skirting the Class C under the shelf, and they emphasized that pilots should really not do that. If you're on the approach end of the 3 parallels at BNA then they're probably vectoring traffic right at where you're intending to go. The thing that might make it easier is to call for flight following on 119.35 right after take off and plan on going around on the departure end of BNA Class C and stay relatively low (3000ish maybe?). You could of course ask for more direct to see what they'll let you do. The BNA controllers are really easy to work with, and they will let you overfly downtown and BNA if you're at the right altitudes and if they're not super busy. You can always call them on the phone and ask them what they'd prefer you do, too.
 
The class C shelf is 2100, the VFR minimum altitude in that area is 2,200. If I fly at 2000 feet, I'm 200 feet below the min altitude. There's a tower on the route at 2049. I consider that dangerous. But hey, I'm still a beginner.
Maybe a silly question: are you a student pilot?
It sounds like you are planning to fly solo. Have you finished ground school? Specifically chapters on airspace, required radio communications, terrain clearance and avoidance?
I would recommend going with an instructor who can show you and explain how to properly navigate the airspace.
Venturing out on your own without knowing what to do (and asking Internet strangers) seems like a recipe for a failure.
I suggest talking to your CFI. He should know better.
 
I have not looked at the sectional, but if the bottom of the Class C shelf is 2100, I definitely would not fly at 2000. That is just too close. If you would not be comfortable doing the flight at 1500 or maybe 1600, talk to approach. Personally, I would get FF anyway.
 
I did this flight today. I got clearance on the ground before departing. They routed me right over BNA. All good. Thanks for all of the feedback and advice.
 
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Pretty cool flying right over the big airport in our little flivvers :).
 
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