Routing advice for ferrying Piper Archer from Philadelphia to Los Angeles

[JH35209]

Hi all, this is my first post to the forum. I'm purchasing a PA28-181 (Archer III) in Philadelphia and will be flying it home to Orange County (just south of Los Angeles) at the end of October. The plane's service ceiling is about 11,000 MSL. Given the time of year and desire to avoid the altitude and risks of flying over the Rockies, can anyone guide me toward routing advice based on experience? Any feedback or suggested sites would be appreciated.

 

[Pilawt]

Welcome aboard.

Easiest and lowest route is by way of El Paso, Tucson, Buckeye, Blythe.

 

[JH35209]

Thanks! Have you actually flown this route, and any more specific tips you can offer?

 

[Rgbeard]

+1 for the ElPaso route.

further North the ground comes up enough that 11-12,000 doesn’t seem like much.

Edit: I do this route frequently from StLouis and most recently from Arkansas

 

[Sluggo63]

Southern route is good. Make your way down to Texas and head down to ELP area then basically straight west past TUC and into LA. I fly it all the time from PHX to AUS. Easy to do.

 

[Pilawt]

I stay well south of Guadalupe Mountain (about 100 nm east of El Paso). The mountain can generate some awesome turbulence. Once west of El Paso (mind the restricted areas) it's a cinch to follow I-10 to Tucson. Benson AZ (E95) usually has the cheapest fuel around, and the coolest courtesy car to drive into town for a burger ('55 Dodge Coronet with three-on-the-tree).

Flying over Tuscon you get a great view of the Davis-Monthan AFB boneyard, but be on Flight Following and stay above the Class C.

I'd go direct from TUS to GBN on V66 and avoid the flight-training circus and parachute jumping areas south of Phoenix. The area around Stanfield VORTAC (TFD) is especially crazy 24/7.

 

[Racerx]

Nothing on the route, but that service ceiling doesn't sound right.

 

[Eldorado]

Service ceiling may be higher, but wouldn’t want to fly westbound any higher than 8500ft for most the trip due to headwinds/ground speed. I-10 is my ace-in-hole, especially going westbound.

 

[FPK1]

I'm coming from Florida to Fullerton, CA in November also and so far received much advice at

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/ordered-new-tecnam-p2010.133681/

 

[Archer Jack]

Service ceiling may be higher, but wouldn’t want to fly westbound any higher than 8500ft for most the trip due to headwinds/ground speed. I-10 is my ace-in-hole, especially going westbound.

I've had my Archer up to 14,000 a couple of times. She quits climbing any higher than that. Might have made 14,500 but would have taken another 10 minutes. Not to mention lack of any extra O2 on board.

 

[benyflyguy]

 

[Albany Tom]

No advice to offer, but congrats on the Archer!

 

[William Pete Hodges]

It's been awhile since I read Flight of Passage but they flew piper cub along the same route. It's worthwhile reading since he talks about route choices, especially the passes over the mountains.

 

[dtuuri]

Thanks! Have you actually flown this route, and any more specific tips you can offer?

Not the one you asked, but I flew it in 1971 — in a Cessna 140. Checkpoints I remember: Wink, TX, El Paso, Deming, NM, Tuscon, Gila Bend, AZ, a pipeline from there to intercept the "new" highway under construction at the time (I-10) to Blythe then Bermuda Dunes, CA, through the Banning pass and into the LA basin, a most memorable trip as you can see.

 

[Jim Carpenter]

Weather permitting, you could head towards Taos area, and cross the backbone of the Rockies there without having to go too high. But, interestingly enough, the "dogleg" to El Paso only adds a bit more than an extra 100 nm compared to a more direct line, insignificant on a 2000+ nm trip.

 

[Domenick]

Southern route. Check out my return flight from the east coast to the Pacific at the link below. You won't have to go as far south in TX as I did. From Philadelphia you could take my eastbound route, veering WSW from Norman,OK toward Las Cruces,NM, then onto Deming,NM. You can jog around a small mountain range just west of Roswell.

http://www.demonick.com/flying/S43-DKX-SUA-S43/index.html

Congrats on the Archer. I have a Warrior (PA-28-161) and love it.

 

[sourdough44]

You could weave in some airborne sights along the way, north of ABQ towards the Grand Canyon. There should be a way to get from the GCN area over to the L.A. basin, around terrain & special use airspace.

 

[Shawn]

For the Western leg...easiest route is to intercept HWY 10 around or before Phoenix then just track I-10 all the way into the LA Basin.

 

[Htaylor]

Hi all, this is my first post to the forum. I'm purchasing a PA28-181 (Archer III) in Philadelphia and will be flying it home to Orange County (just south of Los Angeles) at the end of October. The plane's service ceiling is about 11,000 MSL. Given the time of year and desire to avoid the altitude and risks of flying over the Rockies, can anyone guide me toward routing advice based on experience? Any feedback or suggested sites would be appreciated.

In my light airplane ferrying days, the only IFR I did was I Follow Roads. I've done numerous coast to coast trips in light singles. From Philly to SNA, I'd fly I-76 to I-70. I-70 to St Louis and pick up I-44. Then I-44 to OK City and I-40 to Barstow. Easy peasy and plenty of airports big and small along the way. I've flown that route several times and driven it as well. No reason to go South to I-10 unless weather demands it. You can stop at Sedona as well. It was on a ferry flight that I made my first trip to Sedona. There's also Winslow, AZ with the Flatbed Ford on a downtown corner along with Santa Rosa NM where you can get lunch at the truck stop next to the airport.

 

[woodchucker]

Nothing on the route, but that service ceiling doesn't sound right.

Realistically, it is a good planning tool to go by. I fly a 172, a Cherokee, and a Tiger at those altitudes here in Utah. 11.5 is my maximum vfr cruise planned flight. On a westbound trip that would be 10.5. OP could easily fly I-80 through Wyoming and salt lake and then follow I-15 down to Vegas and LA at those altitudes but that would be a longer flight.

Yeah, the planes can maybe fly up to 14k or whatever on a really great day and a light load, but then you are dealing with oxygen requirements so realistically westbound vfr 10.5 is the target altitude for xc planning. Even at that altitude my wife knocks out and sleeps the entire flight. Unpressurized flying at that altitude is not for everyone.

 

[azpilot]

Just make sure you stay on the North side of the Grand River before you transit El Paso.

 

[RussR]

It's been awhile since I read Flight of Passage but they flew piper cub along the same route. It's worthwhile reading since he talks about route choices, especially the passes over the mountains.

It's an enjoyable read, but I wouldn't consider it much for trip planning advice. There is some very obvious fiction in there, either as a result of misremembering or to make it more dramatic, I don't know.

My favorite example is the Guadalupe Peak chapter, where the "only" route is to climb over the pass, and they get knocked around in turbulence, the plane can barely climb, etc. Death-defying and very dramatic.

Yes there is a peak, and a pass between it and a slightly lower peak. But a glance at the chart, or out the window, shows that if you fly just a few miles further south, the terrain is 3000 feet lower, much flatter, and you miss the peak and the pass completely.

 

[Pilawt]

My favorite example is the Guadalupe Peak chapter, where the "only" route is to climb over the pass, and they get knocked around in turbulence, the plane can barely climb, etc. Death-defying and very dramatic.

Yes there is a peak, and a pass between it and a slightly lower peak. But a glance at the chart, or out the window, shows that if you fly just a few miles further south, the terrain is 3000 feet lower, much flatter, and you miss the peak and the pass completely.

Yeah, you really have to want to fly over mountains, and bypass all the surrounding lowlands, in order to fly through that pass. This is looking at it from V16 about 15 nm east of Salt Flat VORTAC:

 

[MonkeyClaw]

I used to do a similar route to Tucson quite often. So much depends on the weather. If it looked bad (like possible icing), I would head south towards Memphis, then head west. If the weather was nice, I would head direct towards Albuquerque, then west. Choose altitude based on winds and clouds. How long are you planning on taking to get to LA? This may influence your route also, as you'll want places to overnight, eat, relax, etc.

 

[Sluggo63]

Just to add, it sounded like you didn't want to go above 11k. But I brought my plane back from the East coast (ME) to PHX through a more northern route at 12k.

PWM-TSO-SUS-WDG-SAF-DVT and I wouldn't have any issue doing this at 10k either, if you didn't want to go to 12k. From the PHX area its a pretty easy shot to the LA area.

Edit:

This may influence your route also, as you'll want places to overnight, eat, relax, etc.

This. After our first stop at TSO (which is a nice, sleepy little airport with a great restaurant on field) I started thinking about lodging and food availability, and more importantly, access to maintenance on the field. Even though the plane had just had a pre-buy done, it was new to me and who knows what may have happened or broke on the way across the country. The last thing I wanted was to be at some small strip in the middle of Texas or Oklahoma where there was no FBO and no maintenance and have the plane AOG. I decided to pony up the extra money in fuel prices to land at airports where maintenance was on the field rather than be stuck somewhere because I was trying to save 37 cents on a gallon of fuel. Just food for thought.

 

[Pi1otguy]

Only advise I have is to run the numbers for takeoff roll and climb performance for 90°F & 100°F at the elevations of your intended and alternate airports. For example, Big Bear (L45) can get up to 100°F and the performance up there can be unnerving with hills to your left and right.

If you choose to go through a pass, have a plan B in mind.

 

[TheGolfPilot]

I have a Piper Archer. I regularly take it to 10500 taking off at gross. If there is a tail wind, 12500 is worth it! Plan for 3 hour legs. You can do 3.5 hours but, if you have stock fuel gauges, you’ll be getting nervous at the back end.


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[IK04]

Easiest and lowest route is by way of El Paso, Tucson, Buckeye, Blythe.

I stay well south of Guadalupe Mountain (about 100 nm east of El Paso). The mountain can generate some awesome turbulence.

I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years:

 

[Alien Mind]

Cherokee 180. I used to annually to a similar route and went via El Paso. Last couple of trips, went via ABQ and SEZ. distance is very slightly shorter, but the real reason is the views are MUCH better. Basically, I followed I40.

 

[JH35209]

I used to do a similar route to Tucson quite often. So much depends on the weather. If it looked bad (like possible icing), I would head south towards Memphis, then head west. If the weather was nice, I would head direct towards Albuquerque, then west. Choose altitude based on winds and clouds. How long are you planning on taking to get to LA? This may influence your route also, as you'll want places to overnight, eat, relax, etc.

We're planning 4 full days of flying, hoping to make it in 3. It's true the service ceiling of a PA-28-181 is around 14,500 feet, but our plan is to stay below about 10,000. Thanks to everyone for great comments, pictures, and suggestions.

 

[RyanShort1]

I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years:

Ditto.

There are also plenty of decent stops and other POA'rs in Texas... maybe look at places where a friendly dinner might make sense.-

 

[Rgbeard]

We're planning 4 full days of flying, hoping to make it in 3. It's true the service ceiling of a PA-28-181 is around 14,500 feet, but our plan is to stay below about 10,000. Thanks to everyone for great comments, pictures, and suggestions.

Can I ask why the 10,000 limitation?

The trip from Santa Fe to Phoenix has the ground up pretty high, which is why you're getting El Paso as a recommendation.

 

[JH35209]

Can I ask why the 10,000 limitation?

The trip from Santa Fe to Phoenix has the ground up pretty high, which is why you're getting El Paso as a recommendation.

Just to avoid needing oxygen and to avoid the wind vagaries that accompany high peaks. It's not a hard limitation so much as a preference. It sounds like others feel similarly.

 

[Rgbeard]

I get it - just wondered why the number - seemed rather arbitrary to me.

As I posted earlier - I do midwest to Phx a lot, and the El Paso route works pretty well.

Flying to/from Santa Fe really gets your attention. Up at 11 or 11.5 going Eastbound, you're sure not very high over terrain, and 12 or 12.5 coming West doesn't give you much either.

Going on trips that merit the climb, Eastbound I'll go high, like FL190, but coming West the headwinds can sometimes be a pain.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I stay well south of Guadalupe Mountain (about 100 nm east of El Paso). The mountain can generate some awesome turbulence. Once west of El Paso (mind the restricted areas) it's a cinch to follow I-10 to Tucson. Benson AZ (E95) usually has the cheapest fuel around, and the coolest courtesy car to drive into town for a burger ('55 Dodge Coronet with three-on-the-tree).

Flying over Tuscon you get a great view of the Davis-Monthan AFB boneyard, but be on Flight Following and stay above the Class C.

I'd go direct from TUS to GBN on V66 and avoid the flight-training circus and parachute jumping areas south of Phoenix. The area around Stanfield VORTAC (TFD) is especially crazy 24/7.

Yeah, stay away from White Sands Missile Range. There are things in the air there that could ruin your whole day.