Round-the-world teen sailor feared lost at sea

[nddons]

Let's pray that this 16-year old is found safe and sound.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37618875/ns/sports-other_sports/

I really support some level of risk-taking, but a 16-year old sailing around the world? What kind of parent lets that happen? When my daughter started driving and wanted to drive with some other girls beyond a comfortable distance from home, my easy answer was "Um, no." Is that so hard?

 

[Missa]

She already had shown increadibly mature judgment when she gave up on the "non-stop" part of her quest due to equipment failures.

Life is not a gaurentee and as a parent you prepare them to head out and then you have to let them go when they are ready. She was ready and I applude the parents for letting her go.

It will be sad if her young life has ended due to her choices but it seems like she knew what she was doing and was mature enough to make those choices so I think it is wrong to blame her parents for her fate.

Missa

 

[mantakos]

There's a range of ages for which a parent's primary parental responsibility is to prevent the kids from finding a dumb way to kill themselves. 16 is within this range. Parenting fail.
-harry

 

[nddons]

She already had shown increadibly mature judgment when she gave up on the "non-stop" part of her quest due to equipment failures.

Life is not a gaurentee and as a parent you prepare them to head out and then you have to let them go when they are ready. She was ready and I applude the parents for letting her go.

It will be sad if her young life has ended due to her choices but it seems like she knew what she was doing and was mature enough to make those choices so I think it is wrong to blame her parents for her fate.

Missa

I'm not blaming the parents for her fate, but I am asking about the mindset of letting children assume a very, very high level of risk at the age of 16. As the father of a 22-year old daughter and remembering her teen years, I'm fairly certain that I have never met a 16-year old that had sufficient maturity to take on such an activity as sailing around the world. That doesn't mean that teens aren't short of confidence that they believe that they could climb mountains, become bush pilots, or sail around the globe, but that doesn't mean that they can actually do these things, or grasp the significance of the risk of doing such things.

 

[nyoung]

A few months ago, when I first heard about these youngest around the world sailing competitions, my mind immediately turned to Jessica Dubroff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff).

And with that jaded background, I started to read Jessica Watson's blog about her sail around the world. http://www.jessicawatson.com.au/_blog/Official_Jessica_Watson_Blog/

I know next to nothing about sailing (so I'm easy to fool in this subject), but it seemed to be me Jessica was well educated/versed in sailing and took the sail quite seriously. It did not take long for me to reverse my opinion (of whether or not this was a publicity stunt)... and I ended up following her blog, - enjoying every post until she made it back to Sydney.

I really support some level of risk-taking, but a 16-year old sailing around the world? What kind of parent lets that happen?

 

[TMetzinger]

I remember being inspired by stories of a boy who sailed around the world alone at a similar young age.

 

[catmandu]

Tim: Robin Graham and The Dove? I must have read that book ten times in my youth.

Update: She's still afloat, just lost her rigging (found by a Quantas A330!)

 

[Missa]

There's a range of ages for which a parent's primary parental responsibility is to prevent the kids from finding a dumb way to kill themselves. 16 is within this range. Parenting fail.
-harry

I'm not blaming the parents for her fate, but I am asking about the mindset of letting children assume a very, very high level of risk at the age of 16. As the father of a 22-year old daughter and remembering her teen years, I'm fairly certain that I have never met a 16-year old that had sufficient maturity to take on such an activity as sailing around the world. That doesn't mean that teens aren't short of confidence that they believe that they could climb mountains, become bush pilots, or sail around the globe, but that doesn't mean that they can actually do these things, or grasp the significance of the risk of doing such things.

As pilots you should know that it is all about good risk managment and this girl seems to have it in spades. Life is not a garentee and you only get to enjoy it to the extent that you live it.

I'm sure she would have been much safer staying at home, having unprotected sex and popping out a baby which a significant portion of girls her age are doing.

 

[AdamZ]

Whew. They found her with the boat. She appears to be ok she just had a broken mast and can't sail. Very good news.

And Missa whats with the attitude toward Stan? Sheesh! Look I'm not sure I agree with him 100% that this girl should not have been premitted to do what she attempted. It appears from all information that she was EXCEPTIONALLY capable and very mature. Each kid is different. She grew up on the Sea and I belive her quest was different from that of Jessica Dubroff's whom I bleive was really fufilling her parents quest. Huge difference between 7 and 16.

HOWEVER! Stan is right most teens are not sufficiently mature and mentally developed enough to appreciate many risks associated with many activites. No where did Stan say he wasn't letting his daughters take risk. He was saying that his kids weren't mature enough for this quest. I really think you went a bit overboard and owe him an apology. I mean you have no idea how his kids grew up.

 

[tdager]

There's a range of ages for which a parent's primary parental responsibility is to prevent the kids from finding a dumb way to kill themselves. 16 is within this range. Parenting fail.
-harry

Maybe in today's society...but not always. I actually find it ridiculous how much we want to treat 16-17-22 year old's as "children".

 

[Trapper John]

As pilots you should know that it is all about good risk managment and this girl seems to have it in spades. Life is not a garentee and you only get to enjoy it to the extent that you live it.

Check back with us once you have your own teenager. It's a very well documented fact that teens don't do a very good job managing risk.

I'm sure she would have been much safer staying at home, having unprotected sex and popping out a baby which a significant portion of girls her age are doing.

Restricting teenage girls from participating in exceptionally dangerous activities doesn't turn them into sluts...

 

[jtheune]

While it's very possible that it's all a stunt by the media to tout it, from the reports I read the reason for doing this sail now was to set a new record for youngest solo round trip. If that is the case then I object to it as a dangerous stunt by a person too young to make the decision herself. Sailing round the world solo is one thing, doing it to set the record as the youngest is another. We have seen the tragedies that have occurred when age is the deciding factor in when to go.

 

[nyoung]

Definitely. When my Grandfather was 18 (~1932), he owned a farm and an airplane. 18 was a man then. Presently, 18 seems pretty young, basically a transitional age as most kids are heading to college to find themselves for the next 4-6 years. IMHO, most kids are not really adults until about 25 or so.

Maybe in today's society...but not always. I actually find it ridiculous how much we want to treat 16-17-22 year old's as "children".

 

[Missa]

Definitely. When my Grandfather was 18 (~1932), he owned a farm and an airplane. 18 was a man then. Presently, 18 seems pretty young, basically a transitional age as most kids are heading to college to find themselves for the next 4-6 years. IMHO, most kids are not really adults until about 25 or so.

Only because they are babied into beliving that they do not have to take responsibility for themselves by parents who feed into that in the name of "protecting" them.

Parents today are not doing their primary job which is to raise an adult.

BZ to Abbys parents and Thank G-d she is safe.

To those who think it shows bad judgment that she was attempting to set the record of being the "youngest" maybe you should read that she already failed at that quest beacuse she made the very mature decision to go to port when her autopilot failed. No "get there ites" on this girl.

Missa

 

[Jack Spectre]

Only because they are babied into beliving that they do not have to take responsibility for themselves by parents who feed into that in the name of "protecting" them.

Parents today are not doing their primary job which is to raise an adult.

BZ to Abbys parents and Thank G-d she is safe.

To those who think it shows bad judgment that she was attempting to set the record of being the "youngest" maybe you should read that she already failed at that quest beacuse she made the very mature decision to go to port when her autopilot failed. No "get there ites" on this girl.

Missa

Many older and more experienced sailors have died doing what she attempted to do. Her parents earn a FAIL for letting her do something so incredibly risky.

You can raise a child to be mature and responsible without including this level of risk. The minute she turns 18 it's her call...but this whole "youngest person to do (insert dangerous activity)" is ludicrous.

Her parents have exhibited an appalling lack of judgment and should face consequence for what has happened here. They should also have to pay the full SAR bill as far as I'm concerned.

 

[nddons]

Check back with us once you have your own teenager. It's a very well documented fact that teens don't do a very good job managing risk.



Restricting teenage girls from participating in exceptionally dangerous activities doesn't turn them into sluts...

I can't believe I'm going to do this, Trapper, but here goes:

 

[weilke]

I am glad that my parents had such appallingly bad judgement when I was that girls age.






96% of todays fat and twitter dependent teenagers wouldn't make it past the last buoy out of the harbor. So, yes, most teenagers should not set out to round the world in a sailboat. She evidently had the skill and judgement to do it and from the looks of it, her trip was cut short by an event that is not so uncommon in off-shore sailing and happens to crews with 100eds of thousands of miles of racing experience.

 

[RJM62]

I won't pass judgment on the parents, as I know neither them nor the young lady.

I will say that at that age, I was a mountain climber and a spelunker. I also worked summers running a bungalow colony in the Catskills for a largely-absentee owner who left me in full charge of the place. A year later, I was jumping out of Hueys into the ocean on SAR missions.

So who knows... maybe this kid is particularly mature for her age. She did seem to exercise fine decision-making skills, after all. So I'll withhold judgment and just say that I'm really glad that she's okay.

-Rich

 

[Richard]

Abby is a publicity hound. Taking on the Southern Ocean in winter is proof enough of that yet there are many other indications that she is remarkably unprepared with respect to emotional maturity. There are kids her age and younger who do possess the psychological aptitude to meet the challenge and succeed.

Much of the sailing community agrees that Abby's motivation was primarily for entry into an exclusive club, book deals, and movie rights. A circumnav such as her track suggests is incredibly challenging. The challenge is to one's soul more than to their equipment and outside support.

 

[Richard]

Abby was forced to put into Capetown largely because she had run her batts dry because of spending so much time on her blog, etc. Her team had told her to decrease the time on her blog but she ignored their advice.

I must add I am very happy they found her well. Lost at sea can be so horrifying. I'm happy it was a rescue and not a recovery.

 

[Henning]

To those who think it shows bad judgment that she was attempting to set the record of being the "youngest" maybe you should read that she already failed at that quest beacuse she made the very mature decision to go to port when her autopilot failed. No "get there ites" on this girl.

Missa

She showed bad judgment by leaving port to make an illegal trip (Rule 5 from the IMO 1972 COLREGS to which Australia is a signatory nation as is the US: "There shal all all times be a watch maintained by sight, sound, and all available means while the vessel is underway". Please, tell me, how the hell does she manage that while asleep underway? The first time she left she plowed into a ship. She's a media hound, she ran aground here the other day, she had a "manager" following her in another boat.

 

[Richard]

She showed bad judgment by leaving port to make an illegal trip (Rule 5 from the IMO 1972 COLREGS to which Australia is a signatory nation as is the US: "There shal all all times be a watch maintained by sight, sound, and all available means while the vessel is underway". Please, tell me, how the hell does she manage that while asleep underway? The first time she left she plowed into a ship. She's a media hound, she ran aground here the other day, she had a "manager" following her in another boat.

C'mon, any solo sailor or short crew would violate that reg. Hell's bells, I fell asleep at the helm more times than I will admit.

I thought it was Jessica Watson who ran afoul a ship.

 

[AdamZ]

She showed bad judgment by leaving port to make an illegal trip (Rule 5 from the IMO 1972 COLREGS to which Australia is a signatory nation as is the US: "There shal all all times be a watch maintained by sight, sound, and all available means while the vessel is underway". Please, tell me, how the hell does she manage that while asleep underway? The first time she left she plowed into a ship. She's a media hound, she ran aground here the other day, she had a "manager" following her in another boat.

How does anyone doing a solo crossing do that?

 

[Richard]

How does anyone doing a solo crossing do that?

The risk of collision can be minimized in several ways. A radar alarm or short naps (as opposed to regular sleep patterns) are some ways.

The problem with regs is they seek to eliminate the risk. Not very practical....

 

[Henning]

How does anyone doing a solo crossing do that?

Exactly, you can't. It isn't safe on multiple levels, not only for youself but for others as well. How do you observer the right of way rules with another vessel if you're not awake? How do you hear a distress call and render aid if you're not awake to hear it? That is not only a legal duty, it is a moral one. (example, the first BOC Challenge, a single handed round the world race, one of the front runners lost his keel in the night. He was in the water calling maydays as the rest of the fleet sailed by him unaware in his sleep). How do you keep driving your boat in heavy weather? (Autopilots do not work in heavy seas, they are reactive, in heavy seas one has to be set up for the large wave direction before it hits you, or you will be overpowered by it. You can only hand steer about an hour at a time in heavy weather. This is what got all the people killed and hurt several years back on the Sydney to Hobart race when the storm hit them. They were for the most part short handed and after fatigue set in, they could no longer effectively drive the boat which resulted in a lot of broaches, rolls and broken rigs.)

I don't do ocean crossings with less than 6 competent helmsmen. You run 3 watches, 4 hrs on, 8 hrs off with 2 people to a watch, and when the weather gets bad, they relieve each other hourly or half hourly.

 

[Henning]

The risk of collision can be minimized in several ways. A radar alarm or short naps (as opposed to regular sleep patterns) are some ways.

The problem with regs is they seek to eliminate the risk. Not very practical....

So Richard, you're all for setting the autopilot in a plane on a solo flight then and taking a nap right?

 

[Richard]

Because Henning would not (or anyone else) sail solo, should not even be considered. This is tantamount to making the decision to fly SE at night over mountainous terrain, etc. One's decision should not be the basis for drawing the conclusion that another must not.


Yes, my questioning the decision to enter the Southern Ocean in winter I too am guilty of drawing a conclusion that Abby was stupid. I am imperfect. One makes their best preparations and then deals with it. The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat (often better expressed as extreme terror) is sometime a thin line.

 

[Richard]

So Richard, you're all for setting the autopilot in a plane on a solo flight then and taking a nap right?

No, I am not. That opinion is derived not only from common sense but also experience.

 

[SkyHog]

Ooh....did I miss the "You don't have kids, I'm better than you" comment yet?

edit: Nope, its there.

 

[Henning]

No, I am not. That opinion is derived not only from common sense but also experience.

Then why is sleeping while solo sailing OK? All the same risk and common sense as well as legal assessments apply.

 

[AdamZ]

Exactly, you can't. It isn't safe on multiple levels, not only for youself but for others as well. How do you observer the right of way rules with another vessel if you're not awake? How do you hear a distress call and render aid if you're not awake to hear it? That is not only a legal duty, it is a moral one. (example, the first BOC Challenge, a single handed round the world race, one of the front runners lost his keel in the night. He was in the water calling maydays as the rest of the fleet sailed by him unaware in his sleep). How do you keep driving your boat in heavy weather? (Autopilots do not work in heavy seas, they are reactive, in heavy seas one has to be set up for the large wave direction before it hits you, or you will be overpowered by it. You can only hand steer about an hour at a time in heavy weather. This is what got all the people killed and hurt several years back on the Sydney to Hobart race when the storm hit them. They were for the most part short handed and after fatigue set in, they could no longer effectively drive the boat which resulted in a lot of broaches, rolls and broken rigs.)

I don't do ocean crossings with less than 6 competent helmsmen. You run 3 watches, 4 hrs on, 8 hrs off with 2 people to a watch, and when the weather gets bad, they relieve each other hourly or half hourly.

Hmmm learned something new. Often my favorites reads were of Solo Trnsat, Transpac or circumnaviagations I was always struck buy the romaticism and challanges that these sailors overcame. I guess I always assumed the sea is so freaking big what are the chances outside of a collision in blue water. I suppose there is no ability to enforce the maritime rules you cited other than sending a bill for the rescue services. Of course my sailing has been limted to lakes, bays and just off shore.

 

[Henning]

Hmmm learned something new. Often my favorites reads were of Solo Trnsat, Transpac or circumnaviagations I was always struck buy the romaticism and challanges that these sailors overcame. I guess I always assumed the sea is so freaking big what are the chances outside of a collision in blue water. I suppose there is no ability to enforce the maritime rules you cited other than sending a bill for the rescue services. Of course my sailing has been limted to lakes, bays and just off shore.

The same problems with the "big sky" theory hold true on the ocean, actually more so since on the ocean you're limited to a 2 dimensional plane, no altitude misses. I just noticed that this is yet another kid from the one I was referring to, good God, there should be a license required to have children, these parents are morons. This keeps up, we'll have another situation like that with that Jessica D- girl. As for the "Romanticism" of single handed sailing, it's a lot like the "romanticism" of war, it's a lie. BTW, did you ever read "Around the world alone" by Webb Chiles? If you read it with a critical eye, you will see that he is insane. The greatest challenge is actually gone with satellite communications and that is the one of mental solitude. People go insane a month into it, full hallucinations and everything. I have a buddy from San Diego who paddled his kayak acroiss to Hawaii that I warned about that, when he got back he said "Damn, you weren't lying about going insane, I had passengers the last week."

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Hmmm learned something new. Often my favorites reads were of Solo Trnsat, Transpac or circumnaviagations I was always struck buy the romaticism and challanges that these sailors overcame. I guess I always assumed the sea is so freaking big what are the chances outside of a collision in blue water. I suppose there is no ability to enforce the maritime rules you cited other than sending a bill for the rescue services. Of course my sailing has been limted to lakes, bays and just off shore.

"Deep Water" 2006 documentary about the Donald Crowhurst in the first solo round the world race. Netflix has it on line.

Short version - he was a day late and a dollar short.

Got to the south Atlantic and realized his boat wouldn't survive but if he drops out of the race he will have to repay his sponsors for the boat. He decides to just fake it and hang out in the Atlantic, give fake position reports, and sail back behind the rest of the fleet.

He waits for the leaders to go by, starts back in a solid last place. But the few remaining boats have trouble or drop out and he potentially could finish first which would mean that they would be examining his logs and figure out what was done.

He steps off the back of the boat.

 

[Henning]

"Deep Water" 2006 documentary about the Donald Crowhurst in the first solo round the world race. Netflix has it on line.

Short version - he was a day late and a dollar short.

Got to the south Atlantic and realized his boat wouldn't survive but if he drops out of the race he will have to repay his sponsors for the boat. He decides to just fake it and hang out in the Atlantic, give fake position reports, and sail back behind the rest of the fleet.

He waits for the leaders to go by, starts back in a solid last place. But the few remaining boats have trouble or drop out and he potentially could finish first which would mean that they would be examining his logs and figure out what was done.

He steps off the back of the boat.

Yeah, like I said, people who aren't already insane, go insane (typically 98% recovery upon re-socialization). There's a lot of bad stories for every good one. You know the cheapest place on Earth to buy a good boat? Tahiti. Couples set out on "the dream", by the time they get there, she's stepping off the boat all packed up with the ultimatum, "It's the boat or me." and it's cheaper to get rid of the boat than the wife.

 

[TMetzinger]

Check back with us once you have your own teenager. It's a very well documented fact that teens don't do a very good job managing risk.



Restricting teenage girls from participating in exceptionally dangerous activities doesn't turn them into sluts...

Generalities (on which you are correct, Teens as a population are bad at all sorts of stuff) have ABSOLUTELY NO VALIDITY when applied to an INDIVIDUAL.

I went off to College 1200 miles from home at the age of 16. The following year I walked from Georgia to Maine, solo in the era before cell phones.

Parenting is the ultimate job. I think we'd all be better off if we all laid off criticizing the parenting of others. Every parent has to make the decisions they think are best for their individual children, and exceptional children (such as this young lady) will require exceptional decisions.

 

[wby0nder]

[quote=TMetzinger;

I went off to College 1200 miles from home at the age of 16. The following year I walked from Georgia to Maine, solo in the era before cell phones.

One less thing to carry, big deal.

 

[mantakos]

Generalities (on which you are correct, Teens as a population are bad at all sorts of stuff) have ABSOLUTELY NO VALIDITY when applied to an INDIVIDUAL...

Or two individuals in this case, as the 16 year-old sister followed in the footsteps of her brother, who made the trip when he was 17. These parents must be really good at cranking out teenagers with all the judgment and wisdom that comes with experience.

I'm happy to accept the possibility that a 16-year exists that is ready for this responsibility, and grudgingly willing to accept the possibility that one set of parents might crank out two of these, but when your kid is being rescued from a disabled boat in the middle of the ocean, I think it's fair to re-evaluate the premise in the context of the results.

What I'll never understand about these "I want my kid to be the youngest to..." is that it p*sses on any form of sensible risk management, clearly rationalizing it in the name of glory.
-harry

 

[wabower]

My friend Jim Bayham was 18 when he entered cadet pilot training, 19 when he started flying combat missions as commander of a B-24. He was shot down, so he must not have been very good at it.

 

[nddons]

My friend Jim Bayham was 18 when he entered cadet pilot training, 19 when he started flying combat missions as commander of a B-24. He was shot down, so he must not have been very good at it.

Why didn't he enter cadet pilot training at 16?

I know kids develop at different rates, but whether its flying, voting, fighting, or giving consent to have sex, society has determined that 16 is too young for all of these activities.

As a parent, beyond the weather, the capability of her vessel and equipment, and her skills as a sailor, one of my larger concerns would be the two legged animals sailing the oceans. I can only imagine she is not as well armed as Henning.

 

[weilke]

I know kids develop at different rates, but whether its flying, voting, fighting, or giving consent to have sex, society has determined that 16 is too young for all of these activities.

Yet the judiciary system sends 16 year olds away for 'hard 40' or life based on the idea that some children are able to make decisions about right or wrong at that age.

You can get married at 16 and get a drivers license. Depending on the state, a 16 year old can become an 'emancipated minor' and make decisions about his financials, place of living etc. without a guardian.

Not every 16 year old has maturity, some do.