Rough Landings today!

Will Kumley

Will Kumley

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
750
Location
Pacific Southwest
Display Name
Display name:
Will
Dang, today was a rough day. What I thought was going as a decent practice flight didn't end as well as I wanted. Before todays flight I was right at the 9.2 hour mark of training if you count my discovery flight. I feel like I've been progressing well and since lately it seems like I've played a little bit of the instructor shuffle due to scheduling conflicts and delayed ferry flights for my primary instructor. Last Sunday the instructor commented that things were going so well he could see me soloing in 3-4 more flights. Wednesday I ended up with the Chief Flight instructor that performs that stage checks and afterward her comments seemed promising as she wanted me to commit to memory the emergency checklist items then handed me a sheet of what to prepare myself for on the stage check to go solo.
Today, my instructor had to swap with another person I've never flown with and informed him that I should be practicing for my solo stage check. Everything went great. Slow flight, stalls, steep turns were all looking great to the instructor and I was in agreement that although there was room for improvement everything was feeling and looking solid. We figured we would end with a few touch and goes to practice the pattern and landing.
I was good on my pattern altitude and speeds, then for some reason just started gooning up the actual landing. The first one was rough, so rough that I'm pretty sure we were close to a bounce. I was considering a go around before touchdown as there were some wicked crosswinds fighting me but figured the instructor would tell me if I was being unsafe and tried to land it. Well, it landed but wasn't pretty. I knew immediately that it wasn't what I was looking for in a pre-solo practice and chastised myself as I raised the flaps, removed carb heat and added power to takeoff again. Again, pattern work was decent, not as solid as I've done in the past but not bad and my speed and altitude was still where I wanted it. The second landing was better but still had a roughness to it that I didn't like. Third times a charm right. Well, sort of, while everything was looking good and the landing was actually fairly smooth it was off centerline and I touched down with about a 5-10 degree turn as I was fighting the gusting winds. At that point I was out of time and we called it for the day.
In the end after talking to the instructor I've come to the conclusion I'm not looking up to the end of the runway soon enough. When do you transition your sight from your aiming point to the end of the runway? I was waiting until I was ready to transition and was pulling back pretty hard and fast for some reason today. He suggested looking to the end of the runway either as I cross the threshold or maybe a little sooner. Of course, this conversation happened after we were done so I'll have to wait a few days to put it into practice and it will be with the instructor that performs the stage check. At this point, I'm thinking if she even agrees to do a stage check with me, once she sees how hosed my landings are she'll tell me to keep practicing and try again. Although, if I perform like I did today I can't really blame her.
 
Hey you can have good days if you don’t have bad. Plane still intact? Then it’s a small victory.
Maybe try to schedule some time early in am or late in day when not as gusty or bumpy and really hone in that sight picture. Once you have that the winds shouldn’t make too much of a difference. I can’t count how many times I tried to dig a hole in the runway with the nosegear at Flagler until I got that right sight picture.
 
Well, you walked away and the plane was still usable so you did at least OK. One thing I’ve heard is to start your flare when you are about level with the hangar roofs. Altogether, I’d say you’re doing great.
 
Crashnburn said:
Well, you walked away and the plane was still usable so you did at least OK. One thing I’ve heard is to start your flare when you are about level with the hangar roofs. Altogether, I’d say you’re doing great.
Click to expand...

I call that leveling off that you start at about hanger roof height the “round out” this should stop your descent a few feet above the runway. Then the “flare” begins as the nose raises above level and up to a nose high attitude for the touch down.

I don’t recall any documentation for this terminology. Just my terminology. Probably time for me to read the landing section of the Airplane Flying Handbook again.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
You’re being too hard on yourself. EVERYONE goes through this.

You said there was a gusty xwind. Toughest part of primary training IMO.

While I can’t offer insight on technique, as I haven’t flown solo in about 10 years, I would like to point this out. When you are solid, YOU are PIC. The CFI standing by the runway can’t take the controls or easily say go around, add power, pull it to idle, whatever.

You need to make them comfortable that you are acting as PIC before they get out. If you think you should go around, don’t wait for them to tell you. Many times part of the evaluation is did Will go around or wait for me to tell him?

At the very least talk out loud. “I don’t like this approach. I’m going to go around.” Then they can say no, let’s try to save it or they’ll say nothing, then you go full power and get out of there.

You’re 9 hrs in. You have the right to be conservative.

Good luck. Xwind landings aren’t usually smooth. I bet you’ll do well on your stage check and still solo. If it doesn’t look right, go around.
 
Thanks, I'll talk to the lead instructor tomorrow to see if she is okay with at least letting me attempt a solo check ride and starting with one touch and go to see if I can tell myself to look up earlier and if it helps.
 
Will Kumley said:
Thanks, I'll talk to the lead instructor tomorrow to see if she is okay with at least letting me attempt a solo check ride and starting with one touch and go to see if I can tell myself to look up earlier and if it helps.
Click to expand...

Why rush it, do another lesson and relax, you need a bunch of good landings and more importantly to be confident you are good on your own.

Oh and closies or "almosts" only count in horseshoes and hand grenades. ("close to a bounce"). Crosswind landings, especially in gusty crosswinds are rarely as smooth as a no cross wind landing. Make sure the airplane is aligned with the runway before you touch down which means transition to a slip before landing (align the airplane with the center line using the rudder, use the aileron to keep it on centerline (to correct for drift). Keep the correction in during the flare, adjusting as necessary to stay straight and not move sideways, land, go full aileron into the wind and keep it there. Land on one wheel if you need to. Concentrate on keeping the airplane aligned with no sideways movement. Landing while turned (pointing toward the side of the runway rather than straight down it) is very bad.

Finally, don't rely on the instructor to tell you to go around anymore or to bail you out. YOU need to do it on your own, that's what solo is, doing it on your own. If you think you should go around, go around, that is what they are looking for, good decisions. Better safe than sorry.
 
We all have a bad day every now and then.... don't dwell on it.
 
Plateaus. We all have them. We all have had them... You're doing fine...
 
Will Kumley said:
When do you transition your sight from your aiming point to the end of the runway?
Click to expand...

I don't ... I close my eyes as soon as I see skid marks on the runway and hope I don't create any new ones in my pants:D

Just kidding, change your focus during the round out prior to the flare. If needed, use a bug splat or grease pencil as a HUD mark on your windscreen PRIOR to takeoff for ground level.
 
Today was much better. After talking with the lead instructor we decided to stay in the pattern and work landings. I started looking down the runway just prior to my round out and it was 10 times better than last week. Much smoother transition and actual smooth landings. After a few tries she got quiet and it was just me and a chatty passenger that shut up once I started my descent. Kinda surreal and cool at the same time. She let me land a few times in basic silence then we started covering things like emergencies and I even got to do a real go around when someone pulled out onto the runway as I turned final. She thinks I’m ready for a stage check but can’t do it for a week so I’ll likely go up once or twice more this week just for extra seat time/practice and if all goes well I’ll be flying solo by mid next week.
 
This comes up periodically. Personally, I find the FAA recommendation to move one’s focus closer to the plane as the flare progresses to be well founded. If anyone has success looking at the far end of the runway, I’m not arguing against that success* - we’re all wired differently, and will find techniques that work for us.

First, the FAA’s take:

7954777752_a63a8b345a.jpg


Next, Bill Kershner’s take:

11401749073_a132568aab.jpg


Finally, my take, as published in the Cirrus Owner’s magazine:

33825964873_179382020b.jpg

33825965123_21105be51a.jpg



*Just be aware, there are many planes where, in the proper landing attitude, a pilot of normal stature will be unable to see the far end of the runway at all, it being blocked by the panel. See the Cirrus photo above as an example.
 
Busy now so might be back for my full insight but two quick things.
1. I don’t care how early in your training you are, if you think you should go around, do it. Go arounds all the way through airliners can be called out by either pilot and it is initiated, it does not need agreement or an explanation. one pilot who “doesn’t feel right” is good enough for a go around.

2. I get that you want to solo soon, and it seems like you will, but you sound to be very competent and will certainty get there soon so don’t stress over that.


Good luck!
 
Late to this one. Stage check happen yet?

I’m going to dogpile on and say do NOT get in the habit of not making a go-around because you think the other pilot or instructor on board will say something to “save” it.

First, it’s your approach and landing. Screw what the other pilot thinks. One pilot in any two pilot crew calling a go-around, it’s done. Doesn’t matter who’s flying either. Go around.

Second, no instructor SHOULD be pushing a landing you don’t want to make. If the wind is gusty and crappy they may want you to give it a try, but you will the next lap around.

Obviously if every approach in landable conditions ends in a go-around and you’re not talking to them about heading for an alternate with better winds (and how far will you have to fly to get there? Ha...) they’ll have to push your confidence back up somehow. They can make a demonstration out of it and then tell you to try, or whatever.

But the GENERAL attitude taught should be that you are PIC in training and if you want to go around, go around. The instructors shouldn’t be arguing that unless your go-around instincts are way out of whack. Even then, they should let you do it and discuss why in the downwind. :)
 
Stage check was a little nerve racking as it was gusty again. But Mary signed off my stage check and told me it would likely be one or two more lessons before I went solo. I attempted to fly a couple more times this week but they all fell through due to weather. I went this morning and after a couple stalls Aaron wanted me to head to the airport to practice landings. The next thing I know he's telling me to head to the parking area and we hop out. He signs my logbook and sends me out solo.

Three of my smoothest full stop landings later and I see Aaron shooting video of me as I taxi back to the parking area. Guess you could say today was a great day!!!
Once I figure out how to attach a photo I'll share it here.
 
Awesome Will! Now go when its windy with your instructor, nothing builds confidence better than flying in less than perfect weather.
 
Awesome congrats Will! I see that smile and think that's one that will last your lifetime. Love the hat too...
 

Nothing super exciting for a seasoned pilot but here is the video of my first solo. Sorry for the lack of sound. Without an audio input jack I tend to record in silence as the engine drone probably wouldn't provide much.
 
Good job Will ... nice that you have video, but some are against them ... I like it, big event.

I delayed mine so it would land on 03-04-07 (thought it was a cool date). The 152 always had a door popping open during take off, and the CFI slamming it on exit didn't cure it ... first take off, passenger door opens ... waited until downwind to fix it. No other issues ... my only photos are the shirt getting cut and an image just before parking from the observation deck.
 
Awesome job, you've done something that billions of people will never experience. You flew an airplane solo. Now get the rest done and do your check ride. Congratulations.
 
You’re never going to forget the feeling when the wheels left the ground that first time. Suddenly you fully realize it’s all up to you to make the landing happen!!
 
Will Kumley said:

Nothing super exciting for a seasoned pilot but here is the video of my first solo. Sorry for the lack of sound. Without an audio input jack I tend to record in silence as the engine drone probably wouldn't provide much.
Click to expand...
I like the engine sound in these landing vids, helps to get a sense of the RPM without the gauge. That 3rd one was nice! Congrats.
 
denverpilot said:
LoL “this video has no sound”.
Click to expand...
I was providing feedback on his silent video, that I like engine sound since he commented that the engine drone doesn't add anything. 'these landing vids' as a generalization, not this landing vid.
 
exncsurfer said:
I was providing feedback on his silent video, that I like engine sound since he commented that the engine drone doesn't add anything. 'these landing vids' as a generalization, not this landing vid.
Click to expand...

Oh. Hahahaha. I was sitting here like... wow... @exncsurfer is hearing things! :)
 
exncsurfer said:
I like the engine sound in these landing vids, helps to get a sense of the RPM without the gauge. That 3rd one was nice! Congrats.
Click to expand...
Thanks, all three were nice in my book but the last one was great as it was three smooth landings for me in a row and it was the last one required as my first solo! Maybe I'll record my next flight with the sound on to see if I can notice any type of advantage during my reviews.
 
Good job dude...hang in there and just keep on getting better.

I never look out at the end of the runway, but very close in front of the plane.
It works great for me.
So near or far, or between the two, or both, do what works great for you, and the situation.

Flyin's great!
 
George Mohr said:
Here's some news, your landings wont always be perfect even after you get your ticket either
Click to expand...
This is a completely unfounded statement. We all land perfectly one we're real pilots!

As for my actual input, I'm a shorter guy and basically never have the opportunity to look at the end of the runway once I'm close to the ground. I will glance down the runway from my aim point occasionally on final and again during the "round out" to make sure I have the correct control inputs for any crosswinds or gusts, but as the nose slowly comes up and that airspeed bleeds off, my vision is blocked and my the runway edge tells me all I need.

Once you find something that works for you, do it consistently in every condition and landing!
 
First of all, I question the wisdom of taking out a pilot with 9 hours in "strong, gusty crosswinds". But just relax. You'll have days like this. Don't overthink things. His is completely normal. How comfortable were you driving wih 9.2 hours lf experience?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top