RIP, Skylane N271G. :(

nddons said:
A certain Mooney perhaps?
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The insurance company nixed that, not to mention we can't afford it. :(

nddons said:
Yea, when you have a business card sized " for sale" sign, it's odd that it didn't sell at OSH. ;)
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Hah! :rofl:

(I have 8 1/2 x 11 signs in both rear windows all the time, banners on the prop when I'm parked, and had 3 more letter-size signs on the for-sale board at OSH with big bold text advertising that it was on the field. I also have business cards with specs and small pics and my phone number to hand out to anyone who may be interested or know someone who's interested. There's also a nice ad online. I really am trying to sell it. :p)
 
He said it was when we crossed paths at OSH. I didn't have the portable polygraph in my pocket at the time, so still not sure I'm buying the story.

Ted DuPuis said:
It's for sale?
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So did the pilot watch them fuel it and then not put it away ? Hopefully the pilot at least hung around to watch it being fueled right ?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The insurance company nixed that, not to mention we can't afford it. :(

Hah! :rofl:

(I have 8 1/2 x 11 signs in both rear windows all the time, banners on the prop when I'm parked, and had 3 more letter-size signs on the for-sale board at OSH with big bold text advertising that it was on the field. I also have business cards with specs and small pics and my phone number to hand out to anyone who may be interested or know someone who's interested. There's also a nice ad online. I really am trying to sell it. :p)
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Potential buyers also got told no by their insurance, probably. Which means the price will have to fall to make up their opportunity cost problem for that first year (or however long) of insurance price delta. Or they'll just buy a used. SR-20.

Welcome to the modern SE retract insurance world. Three drink minimum, $10000 cover charge. ;)
 
Or perhaps a prospective owner will be smart enough to come in out of the rain and realize the one-year blip in insurance rates is a drop in the bucket over the ownership period. Anybody who's trying to slice the "opportunity cost" with such a fine setting deserves to own a Cirrus anyway. should probably buy a used 20 anyway.


denverpilot said:
Potential buyers also got told no by their insurance, probably. Which means the price will have to fall to make up their opportunity cost problem for that first year (or however long) of insurance price delta. Or they'll just buy a used. SR-20.

Welcome to the modern SE retract insurance world. Three drink minimum, $10000 cover charge. ;)
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dottat said:
So did the pilot watch them fuel it and then not put it away ? Hopefully the pilot at least hung around to watch it being fueled right ?
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No. FBO is on the east ramp, we're on the south ramp. It frequently takes them 15-30 minutes or more to respond, and frankly most of our pilots know nothing about fueling an airplane so it'd be pretty pointless anyway... Except this time.
 
wabower said:
Or perhaps a prospective owner will be smart enough to come in out of the rain and realize the one-year blip in insurance rates is a drop in the bucket over the ownership period. Anybody who's trying to slice the "opportunity cost" with such a fine setting deserves to own a Cirrus anyway. should probably buy a used 20 anyway.
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This!

denverpilot said:
Potential buyers also got told no by their insurance, probably. Which means the price will have to fall to make up their opportunity cost problem for that first year (or however long) of insurance price delta. Or they'll just buy a used. SR-20.

Welcome to the modern SE retract insurance world. Three drink minimum, $10000 cover charge. ;)
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BS. The insurance cost is $2,114 for me on $170K hull value. Not sure what it was last year, but at that point there were two other pilots on the policy - And I do know that I was added to the policy with no additional premium cost and the only requirement was a CFI sign-off - NO minimum time in type (and I had 0 time in type prior to that.)

Avemco simply refuses to cover any retract not made by Piper or Cessna in a club environment (>5 members). At this point we're not interested in switching, so, there ya go.
 
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wabower said:
Or perhaps a prospective owner will be smart enough to come in out of the rain and realize the one-year blip in insurance rates is a drop in the bucket over the ownership period. Anybody who's trying to slice the "opportunity cost" with such a fine setting deserves to own a Cirrus anyway. should probably buy a used 20 anyway.
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Perhaps.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
BS. The insurance cost is $2,114 for me. Not sure what it was last year, but at that point there were two other pilots on the policy - And I do know that I was added to the policy with no additional premium cost and the only requirement was a CFI sign-off - NO minimum time in type (and I had 0 time in type prior to that.)

Avemco simply refuses to cover any retract not made by Piper or Cessna in a club environment (>5 members).
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Wayne says that'll drop next year. Be interested to see if it really does. It's double what we pay on a Skylane, just for reference. Sounds about right.

Interesting Avemco info. Any chance the club could drop them for an underwriter who does Mooneys?

I get the impression Avemco assumes they're going to be bellied in someday and they ain't afford the repairs on a Mooney? Weird.
 
denverpilot said:
Potential buyers also got told no by their insurance, probably. Which means the price will have to fall to make up their opportunity cost problem for that first year (or however long) of insurance price delta. Or they'll just buy a used. SR-20.

Welcome to the modern SE retract insurance world. Three drink minimum, $10000 cover charge. ;)
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Umm,

You can insure a retract for comercial use and flight instruction for less than that
 
denverpilot said:
Wayne says that'll drop next year. Be interested to see if it really does. It's double what we pay on a Skylane, just for reference. Sounds about right.
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What's your insured hull value? Mine's $170K. Guessing that'll be pretty close to double yours...

Interesting Avemco info. Any chance the club could drop them for an underwriter who does Mooneys?
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Not worth it. Avemco is very easy for us to work with, and it'd only be a short-term lease deal because the club can't afford to buy the plane. (Well, technically we could, but we'd be fully leveraged at that point. Bad idea.)

I get the impression Avemco assumes they're going to be bellied in someday and they ain't afford the repairs on a Mooney? Weird.
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Or they assume that 30 people will not fly it often enough to remain proficient in flying such a fast, complex airplane and they're more likely to have accidents of all types. I doubt they're that worried about gear ups, since they aren't too worried about it on the Cessna/Piper birds (premium difference between retract and fixed 182 is under 15%) and they're not that expensive. Lawsuits after crashes are.
 
The flying club I used to be in had a 210 in the lineup. Back around 2002 or 2003, IIRC, the insurance company basically said "Get rid of it, or limit it to 5 or so pilots". So the club got rid of it. Unfortunately, it was before I had enough TT to get checked out in it - that would have been a fun plane to get some experience in.

They ended up replacing it with a Cherokee Six - 300 that nobody flew, so they got rid of that one, too, and replaced it with another 172.

The club still has the 177RG on the line, though, so it's not "all" SE RG's that are getting grief.
 
Congrats. Crossing fingers for y'all to have less gear up landings than all the 182RG clubs in CO.
 
Apache123 said:
Nice. How was the XC bringing her back?
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Well, aside from an average of ~30 knot headwinds, pretty good! Also, it was really smooth at 6K and up, but on the way down into Madison, starting at 5500 it was quite the rodeo. 280@59 knots at 6000, 220 at 9G22 on the ground. Whee!

It was good to have a the extra time to play with all the new gadgets and get more comfortable with them, though...
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I sure hope they gave you 21 :p
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Yup. I'd have taken 18 too, but as you know they usually stick the little guys on 21 and the human mailing tubes on 18. I guess the airline guys weren't in a mood to mess with the winds either, I had to expedite the approach and getting off the runway for a Delta Airbus that was 3 miles behind me.
 
Typical "club" airplane. Nobody gives a ratsass about the airplanes. There is simply no pride of ownership.

The last pilot who flew the airplane should have monitored the fueling and storage, just like any normal owner would have done.

It was probably left a mess as well with empty beer bottles and McDonalds wrappers thrown about.
 
kgruber said:
Typical "club" airplane. Nobody gives a ratsass about the airplanes. There is simply no pride of ownership.

The last pilot who flew the airplane should have monitored the fueling and storage, just like any normal owner would have done.

It was probably left a mess as well with empty beer bottles and McDonalds wrappers thrown about.
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Thanks for ASSuming a ton about our club. :rolleyes:

We DO have pride of ownership, we are an equity club and we do own the airplanes. Not the whole thing, obviously, but the planes are ours. Our owners keep things clean and we get together periodically to wash and wax the planes, etc.

The reason we do not generally monitor the fueling/putting away process, as previously noted, is that it takes at least several minutes, often 15-30, and sometimes more, before they can make their way from the East ramp to the South ramp to take care of it, and they've always given us excellent service in the past. Now, the FBO's procedures have been modified to prevent a similar accident from occurring.

The Mooney, I fuel myself most of the time (I generally buy cheap self-serve away from my home field) and I put away myself every time. The club planes, I cannot do either at our home field - Full service FBO with no self serve, and due to it being a community hangar we aren't allowed to pull out or put away the airplanes because the FBO is concerned that someone might run their plane into someone else's. Perfectly understandable.

Why don't you come over, look at our actual situation, and THEN tell us how it should be done instead of spouting a bunch of untrue crap about our airplanes and the FBO?
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Thanks for ASSuming a ton about our club. :rolleyes:

We DO have pride of ownership, we are an equity club and we do own the airplanes. Not the whole thing, obviously, but the planes are ours. Our owners keep things clean and we get together periodically to wash and wax the planes, etc.

The reason we do not generally monitor the fueling/putting away process, as previously noted, is that it takes at least several minutes,
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I rest my case. You were just too lazy and unconcerned to take proper care of the club trash.
 
kgruber said:
I rest my case. You were just too lazy and unconcerned to take proper care of the club trash.
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Well, your comments about pride of ownership are clearly BS, or I wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Now, let's see. If you weren't allowed to put your plane in the hangar and you didn't know how long it would take the line guys to get away, how long would you stand there? An hour? Two? Ten? When you called repeatedly and they said sorry, they're really busy right now and they'd get to it when they could, would you keep standing there?

What about if you'd been working with this FBO for many years, and they had never ever been anything but professional and great at what they do? Because that's our situation. We've got an FBO that is normally excellent, run by aviation geeks, and who've always taken great care of us. We feel comfortable leaving our planes in their care, because they'd earned our trust over many years. Yeah, they screwed up this time, but we'd never had any indication that they would do so.

So don't tell me we have no pride of ownership. We certainly don't fit your personal stereotype of people who don't care about their planes. I've never come across another member's garbage in a plane, nor have I left any behind. Plenty of PoAers have ridden in our planes with me, Pete, and others and can attest to their quality.

So, go pick your bone with someone else.
 
LOL... I've seen Kent's club's planes and know a number of their members. They're not the typical club, and they do take care of their stuff. Reminds me of a club that did here long long ago that if it hadn't folded, I'd still be a renter. Their airplanes were bought up and had their azzes kicked by a more "traditional" club or three, as they went under and revived themselves, over the years. I still miss when N5330R was a nice, well-taken-care-of 172RG... flew the hell outta that thing, always vacuumed it out (upon fear of penalty of death by the owner who made sure people were TOSSED from the club if they trashed his airplanes)...

But definitely Kent's club is unique. Folks who really care about their club.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yup. I'd have taken 18 too, but as you know they usually stick the little guys on 21 and the human mailing tubes on 18. I guess the airline guys weren't in a mood to mess with the winds either, I had to expedite the approach and getting off the runway for a Delta Airbus that was 3 miles behind me.
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Sometime a week or two ago I parked and as I was walking in, watched an American Eagle CRJ land on 03. I was wondering what the hell... ATIS stated 18/36 was temporarily closed. I can't recall exactly, but I am relatively certain I have never landed on the big runway there. And I have a lot of landings!
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Sometime a week or two ago I parked and as I was walking in, watched an American Eagle CRJ land on 03. I was wondering what the hell... ATIS stated 18/36 was temporarily closed. I can't recall exactly, but I am relatively certain I have never landed on the big runway there. And I have a lot of landings!
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I've taken off and landed on all six - Hell, I've closed 18 and 21! - but 32 and 21 are by far the most common. 3 is rare for an airliner as there are no instrument approaches to 3, but if 18/36 is closed and wind favors 3, they're probably better off landing into the wind and uphill on 3's 7200 feet instead of going for 32.

FWIW, in 10 years of flying, mostly around Madison, I have *never* seen an RJ land on 14/32. And seeing how much of 18 they burn up on the landing roll when I'm aboard 'em, I'm not surprised.
 
As an enthusiastic observer over the past decade(I work nearby) I don't think I've ever seen ANY turbine aircraft land on 14/32. Not that it's never happened, but I don't think it does often.

A month ago me and the CFI were holding short of 21 while a couple F-16s took off from 3. That was awesome:)

Back to the regular programming, sorry for the hijack LOL.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
As an enthusiastic observer over the past decade(I work nearby) I don't think I've ever seen ANY turbine aircraft land on 14/32. Not that it's never happened, but I don't think it does often.
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Wanna see something cool, head out there between 10 PM and midnight and watch the FedEx 727's take off from 32. :D

I also have seen a ski-equipped C130 land on 32, and I've seen plenty of biz jets depart 32. Not as many landings though.

A month ago me and the CFI were holding short of 21 while a couple F-16s took off from 3. That was awesome:)
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Yup - I've done the same, though it was at night, I was holding short of 3 and they were departing 36 so they rotated right in front of me with full afterburner. Sweeeeet. :D
 
ChitDisturber said:
Well that's scary!
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Well... I should have said it this way: "Most pilots know nothing about fueling an airplane."

It ain't in the PTS, and there are many CFI's - Probably a large majority - who have never done it themselves. So, people never learn, and eventually they run into a situation where it's self-serve or risk fuel exhaustion, and they seem to go for the fuel exhaustion option an awful lot! :(

IMO, fueling an airplane should be in the PTS... But as long as it's not, once I get my CFI it's something I'll cover with all of my students.
 
Shut up people about bad owners not watching fuelers. My airplane is my absolute pride and joy (no kids) and I have enough trust and respect to walk away during fueling. When I was in a o,Kunitz hangar (which I vastly prefer to my private t I have now) I called and like magic it would be ready forme when I arrived. I didn't watch it. Holy crap people I promise the line guys aren't to get you really. If you want to tell someone how much you hate the line crew PM me and ill be glad to inform you of life on the other side of the fence, from when I worked in line service.


/rant
 
I find it almost unimaginable that people don't know how to put fuel in their toys... I suppose these are the same doofuses who are found floating in motorboats in the middle of lakes?
 
Also, I've had friends decide to use self serve fuel before. All goes well until they have no idea what they're doing. I went for a flight with a friend last week and he asked me to fuel it because he'd never done it before. His airplane has bladders, he would have done more damage than a line guy.
 
I work 2nd shift next to MATC. I know the sound when those white and purple planes take off around 11ish:)
 
Well to hijack this thread again. I would like to say that while the paint on 10R is kinda ugly, she sure flies nice. Gonna be a while before she feels like 71G, but I think 10R will do just fine.

Oh and coming in to land one night on 36, I was following a departing flight of 4 F-16s. The last two blasted off as I was on a mile or so final. Seeing the burner at night is pretty effing cool...
 
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