Revitalizing Small/Older Airports

[LevelWing]

There's an older airport in the area I live which looks like it's barely hanging on. It's owned by the county but the managers there have been there for over 30 years and do not seem much interested in making improvements. They have a maintenance shop there that they own as well. There are no aircraft tied down there though they have the spots for them. The inside of the office is a disaster with paperwork stacked on the floor, tables, etc. and just piled high. I think the airport is capable of being more than it is but unsure of how to help it without upsetting the managers. There are several very simple things that can be done to help the airport but again, I'm not looking to upset anyone. Is it even worth trying to do anything?

 

[Jeff K]

It is.

Start going to your county commissioner meetings and introduce yourself as someone who is a pilot and interested in the local airport. Signup with the AOPA ASN program. Outline some ways to make the airport less of a drain economically and more attractive to area pilots and businesses.

I'm in the process of doing something similar and while my airport isn't as bad as yours it was well on it's way. We are (hopefully) just a few meetings away from an airport advisory committee being formed. The City Manager, who is close to clueless on aviation, has been setting the direction for the last 10 years and many of the decisions didn't serve local pilots and/or were made with little forthought.

And face it... if you try to change things you'll make someone upset. It's in that bad shape for a reason. Just be relentless positive and most of the naysayers will think twice as that only exposes their position as the problem.

 

[Zeldman]

Its worth a try. Might write up a business plan and see if it catches any attention.

May I ask where in Texas?

 

[PAustin]

I would do anything and everything you can to help it survive. There are to many small old airports just drying up and blowing away (including our own - being pushed out because of big business moving in). All pilots should do what they can to help the small airports keep going. Just flying in and saying hello helps too. The small airports need activity to survive.

 

[ClimbnSink]

What is the number of local pilots? If the place was well run and had reasonable facilities would anyone show up? No point in keeping something no one wants.

 

[Snake]

Our local airport is in the same shape. There has only been 1-2 planes kept there in the last 10 years, so it is no surprise. There are no instrument approaches, hangers are old with dirt floors and the runway is cracked pretty bad. There has been a few locals getting back into flying, and a couple new pilots have earned their license, so the City applied for some Federal money to improve it with the renewed interest. Hopefully ours will get back in shape as well as yours.

 

[LevelWing]

What is the number of local pilots? If the place was well run and had reasonable facilities would anyone show up? No point in keeping something no one wants.

It's not many. However I think that if the airport was cleaned up a bit and some small things were done, people would like to visit even if it was just a quick stop on a cross country trip for fuel and to stretch their legs.

They only have full service fuel. It's likely a long shot but if a self serve fuel station was put in they could probably lower the price of fuel a little and attract more people. The prices of fuel at other area airports is pretty expensive. They really don't have any semblance of a pilot's lounge either.

I'm not sure how much federal money is going to that airport but I'd guess not much by the looks of it. I'm also not sure what the process is to get federal funding to the airport for improvements but they could use some. Even without the federal funding some really simple things could be done to make the airport more attractive. Once smaller improvements are made fly-ins would be great to see there as well as perhaps even hosting an FAAST seminar or other seminar.

 

[docmirror]

What's the identifier?

 

[ClimbnSink]

I always suspect there is federal or state money going to these places it is just going straight to someone's pocket. If the town is clueless about running everything doesn't seem likely they are writing checks to pay for it all. Or maybe the place turns a profit as a low maintenance dump. The world needs dumpy airports too.

 

[docmirror]

I kinda like landing at run-down, dumpy flyspeck places when alone. My wife gets creeped out.

I stopped at Shamrock TX once and man was that sad. The water strainer on the pump was busted and leaked, but I needed gas so I just parked as far as I could, and filled it quick. My wife was not impressed when she had to squat behind a run down hangar. Oops.

 

[LevelWing]

I kinda like landing at run-down, dumpy flyspeck places when alone. My wife gets creeped out.

I stopped at Shamrock TX once and man was that sad. The water strainer on the pump was busted and leaked, but I needed gas so I just parked as far as I could, and filled it quick. My wife was not impressed when she had to squat behind a run down hangar. Oops.

It's not quite as bad as that but it could very well end up like that soon if it doesn't get some help.

I've looked into becoming the ASN volunteer there but the concern is still upsetting the current managers. I will contact the county as per an above post and see what they say. I can't imagine the county not wanting to revitalize an airport at little to no cost to them, especially if it has the potential to actually bring more money into them.

 

[bkspero]

I can sympathize with the desire to keep things as they were in better days. But GA is shrinking and if there are enough other airports in the area to support the pilot population (or not enough pilots to support the airports), then maybe it's time for this one to close.

We pilots rail against government waste when spending is on others (and Texas seems to leads the charge in this regard). Spending tax dollars on a dying airport in an effort to entice pilots who would otherwise patronize other, more vital airports, seems like colossal government waste.

 

[Jeff K]

I've looked into becoming the ASN volunteer there but the concern is still upsetting the current managers.

They don't need to know immediately. All an ASN is going to do for you initially is give you some (maybe little) credibility with a title to the county commissioners. Another pilot can recommend you for the program, although in my case I had the airport manager do it. Once the airport gets back on it's feet, then your role as ASN will expand. They also have some resources but so far I haven't found alot with airports in our shape.

I will contact the county as per an above post and see what they say. I can't imagine the county not wanting to revitalize an airport at little to no cost to them, especially if it has the potential to actually bring more money into them.

I really can identify with the other poster pushing for fiscal prudence but alot of people don't know that a majority of airport funding comes from user fees... i.e. from airport users themselves. So it's drain on state and federal taxpayers is almost zero. I can't speak for your state, but in Michigan the city/counties can get access to that money for about 5 cents on the dollar for improvements.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/

Good luck but be aware it might take some time. It's politics and it's good 'ole boys. But I think it's worth it.

 

[ClimbnSink]

They don't need to know immediately. All an ASN is going to do for you initially is give you some (maybe little) credibility with a title to the county commissioners. Another pilot can recommend you for the program, although in my case I had the airport manager do it. Once the airport gets back on it's feet, then your role as ASN will expand. They also have some resources but so far I haven't found alot with airports in our shape.



I really can identify with the other poster pushing for fiscal prudence but alot of people don't know that a majority of airport funding comes from user fees... i.e. from airport users themselves. So it's drain on state and federal taxpayers is almost zero. I can't speak for your state, but in Michigan the city/counties can get access to that money for about 5 cents on the dollar for improvements.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/

Good luck but be aware it might take some time. It's politics and it's good 'ole boys. But I think it's worth it.

Even if the money is entirely from aviation fuel taxes it is still wasted redistribution unless that airport is selling a lot of fuel. We gotta let things die.

 

[mondtster]

I really can identify with the other poster pushing for fiscal prudence but alot of people don't know that a majority of airport funding comes from user fees... i.e. from airport users themselves. So it's drain on state and federal taxpayers is almost zero. I can't speak for your state, but in Michigan the city/counties can get access to that money for about 5 cents on the dollar for improvements.

I think it would surprise most people to know how little it costs a city to operate an airport. Many small airports in this area operate on budgets of less than $50k/year and once the hangar rents, fuel flowage fees, etc. come in the airport is either self supporting or nearly so.

Even if the money is entirely from aviation fuel taxes it is still wasted redistribution unless that airport is selling a lot of fuel. We gotta let things die.

I don't know how other states do things but Iowa has an airport stratification program that does exactly what you're talking about. The airports that have dedicated local folks, meet certain criteria, and are getting used get the first shot at the grant money and the smaller airports that aren't being cared for get the leftover money.

 

[LevelWing]

They don't need to know immediately. All an ASN is going to do for you initially is give you some (maybe little) credibility with a title to the county commissioners. Another pilot can recommend you for the program, although in my case I had the airport manager do it. Once the airport gets back on it's feet, then your role as ASN will expand. They also have some resources but so far I haven't found alot with airports in our shape.

That would be an interesting conversation to have with the managers, especially if they don't think they need the help.

Even if the money is entirely from aviation fuel taxes it is still wasted redistribution unless that airport is selling a lot of fuel. We gotta let things die.

A lot of GA is already dying. I enjoy flying into bigger airports with nice facilities but it's also nice to fly into smaller airports in locations I haven't been to before. I'm sure others enjoy it as well.

 

[Henning]

Its worth a try. Might write up a business plan and see if it catches any attention.

May I ask where in Texas?

Sounds like Wichita Valley.

 

[N3368K]

Sounds like Wichita Valley.

Flew in there several times in the mid-80s.

 

[Blatham489]

Not long ago weather forced me to land at Aliceville, AL, just west of Tuscaloosa. I couldn't believe my eyes. There were NO planes tied down, two functional but neglected looking hangars (Pictured the planes inside, if any, as old moth eaten fabric covered crop dusters) and no fuel available.

Yet, the runway and tiedown apron was nicely and recently repaved blacktop, runway and taxiway lighting and lit signage (yes, the 50' taxiway from the tiedown to the runway) and all nicely striped. Look carefully to the far left and you can see the ICAO sign directing you from Taxiway Alpha to runway 6-24.

All I could think was "who did they know to get a bunch of federal money spent on their personal airport??"

You might want to call them and ask how they did it.

 

[Bonchie]

Not long ago weather forced me to land at Aliceville, AL, just west of Tuscaloosa. I couldn't believe my eyes. There were NO planes tied down, two functional but neglected looking hangars (Pictured the planes inside, if any, as old moth eaten fabric covered crop dusters) and no fuel available.

Yet, the runway and tiedown apron was nicely and recently repaved blacktop, runway and taxiway lighting and lit signage (yes, the 50' taxiway from the tiedown to the runway) and all nicely striped. Look carefully to the far left and you can see the ICAO sign directing you from Taxiway Alpha to runway 6-24.

All I could think was "who did they know to get a bunch of federal money spent on their personal airport??"

You might want to call them and ask how they did it.

If crop dusters are using it, that's your answer.

It may be personally owned except for the runway as well. My uncles airport is like that. Guy who owns the crop dusting company owns the hangers and ramp and it's basically his personal airport. Feds just redid the runway and they own that portion.

I think because there's such a business interest for the area, it's kept funded despite no transient or hardly any local GA traffic.

 

[LevelWing]

Sounds like Wichita Valley.

It's in west Texas.

Not long ago weather forced me to land at Aliceville, AL, just west of Tuscaloosa. I couldn't believe my eyes. There were NO planes tied down, two functional but neglected looking hangars (Pictured the planes inside, if any, as old moth eaten fabric covered crop dusters) and no fuel available.

Yet, the runway and tiedown apron was nicely and recently repaved blacktop, runway and taxiway lighting and lit signage (yes, the 50' taxiway from the tiedown to the runway) and all nicely striped. Look carefully to the far left and you can see the ICAO sign directing you from Taxiway Alpha to runway 6-24.

All I could think was "who did they know to get a bunch of federal money spent on their personal airport??"

You might want to call them and ask how they did it.

The airport I'm referring to doesn't even have a fence. Anybody can drive anywhere they want on the property 24/7. There is a bar gate but it's rarely used. The runway is in pretty decent shape and the signs are in pretty decent shape as well. It wouldn't take much to bring some life back into the airport. It would be a fun little stop for someone on a cross country trip if it got cleaned up and had some minor improvements.

If crop dusters are using it, that's your answer.

I have seen crop dusters in and out of there and they use the runway heavily.

 

[Brad Z]

So you're not going to tell us where it is?

 

[Henning]

So you're not going to tell us where it is?

Doesn't want anyone buying it out from under him.

 

[KA550]

Doesn't want anyone buying it out from under him.

Or stealing that coveted ASN title.

 

[MickYoumans]

There is more to consider than just 'letting an airport die.' Each and every airport is part of the aviation infrastructure. Here in Georgia in the 60's, there was a program in place where the state would pay 50% and the county would pay 50% of the costs to build new airports around the state with the intention of an airport always being in site in case of emergencies or bad weather. Yes we have airports in small towns that don't see much usage on a regular basis, but it sure is nice to know they are there when and if needed. I live in one of these smaller towns, but fortunately we have a reasonably active airport for the size of our town. Our airport is currently closed through August 16th for resurfacing of the runway and parking area. I am the AOPA ASN for our airport and I'm also encouraging the county administrator to add fuel since above ground self serve tank farms are easy to install. We had gas years ago prior to self serve pumps, but when the man that was our FBO passed away, our airport took a setback and we no longer have fuel. We are currently trying to get things turned back around again. I said all of is to say that each and every airport in our system is important from a safety standpoint and worth fighting for to keep. It sure would be nice if more small town airports would install self serve fuel. If transient pilots knew they could stop and purchase fuel for a fair price I think it would provide additional money for the county to help maintain the airport. Don't give up the fight.

 

[ClimbnSink]

You paying? For these little airports to have emergency value we now need proper length and condition runways, instrument approaches, etc. Money adds up, where is it going to come from? Should a busy airport that people with money actually want to use go without, so a deserted podunk airport can exist?

 

[LevelWing]

So you're not going to tell us where it is?

Doesn't want anyone buying it out from under him.

Or stealing that coveted ASN title.

It's not that, I just don't see how naming the airport is relevant. I certainly don't have the money to buy the airport, though it would be cool to own your own airport.

I am the AOPA ASN for our airport and I'm also encouraging the county administrator to add fuel since above ground self serve tank farms are easy to install. We had gas years ago prior to self serve pumps, but when the man that was our FBO passed away, our airport took a setback and we no longer have fuel. We are currently trying to get things turned back around again. I said all of is to say that each and every airport in our system is important from a safety standpoint and worth fighting for to keep. It sure would be nice if more small town airports would install self serve fuel. If transient pilots knew they could stop and purchase fuel for a fair price I think it would provide additional money for the county to help maintain the airport. Don't give up the fight.

At a nearby, larger airport, the FBO has their own fuel. They charge pretty high prices because they know they can. The city won't put in their own self serve fuel farm and I don't know if they'd allow another private company to come in and do it. Depending on how the numbers work out, it's likely that the prices would be significantly cheaper from another private company with self serve than what the FBO charges. There's a decent sized GA population there that would really benefit from having self serve fuel. I don't know what it would cost to setup a self serve fuel system, nor the cost of the fuel itself from the supplier, plus the freight.

 

[F01LA]

You paying? For these little airports to have emergency value we now need proper length and condition runways, instrument approaches, etc. Money adds up, where is it going to come from? Should a busy airport that people with money actually want to use go without, so a deserted podunk airport can exist?

I hear your side of the argument, and I am somewhat receptive, but..

Where is the money going to come from to maintain US Highway 2 in Montana? Should busy roads go without, just so a deserted highway can exist and allow some people to get to and from their podunk towns?

I think there is value in having the infrastructure to allow pilots to fly to many locations (though many are lightly used) in the U.S.

 

[Henning]

I hear your side of the argument, and I am somewhat receptive, but..

Where is the money going to come from to maintain US Highway 2 in Montana? Should busy roads go without, just so a deserted highway can exist and allow some people to get to and from their podunk towns?

I think there is value in having the infrastructure to allow pilots to fly to many locations (though many are lightly used) in the U.S.

Yeah, but Hwy2 in Montana gets used more than some airports I know.

 

[hook_dupin]

I think there's value in privatizing airports or putting them in the hands of public-private partnerships

 

[Brad Z]

It's not that, I just don't see how naming the airport is relevant. I certainly don't have the money to buy the airport, though it would be cool to own your own airport.

At a nearby, larger airport, the FBO has their own fuel. They charge pretty high prices because they know they can. The city won't put in their own self serve fuel farm and I don't know if they'd allow another private company to come in and do it. Depending on how the numbers work out, it's likely that the prices would be significantly cheaper from another private company with self serve than what the FBO charges. There's a decent sized GA population there that would really benefit from having self serve fuel. I don't know what it would cost to setup a self serve fuel system, nor the cost of the fuel itself from the supplier, plus the freight.

It matters because if it is a federal obligated airport that qualifies for Airport Improvement Program money, the Feds pick up 90% of the costs for eligible projects. If it is privately owned and not obligated, the owner has no obligation to anyone to do anything.

We have a small airport inside the Washington DC FRZ, just 20 minutes from downtown, that usually looks like a ghost town. The airport manager would love to do all sorts of stuff, but the absentee owner doesn't want to spend any money and is just waiting for the real estate market to bounce back so he can sell it off to a developer. Sadly, there is no way any pilot, or group of pilots is going to be able to afford to pay what he wants for it. So in the mean time it keeps trucking along, with a few tenants, a couple maintenance shops, etc. The manager has been able to get state money to maintain the pavement, but the buildings are in pretty bad shape. At one time, the County considered developing the airport as a regional airport, but that concept never took off and then 9/11 happened...and here we are 13 years later.

 

[timwinters]

We haven't been given all the details but I'm leaning towards Greg's side on this one.

There' a very similar (and equally sad) situation in a town near me, Marble Hill, MO (0T3). They have a really nice 2,600' grass strip. Six years ago there were 5 airworthy aircraft based there (of which only one ever moved, mine) but no more. Now the only hangar that's occupied has a tri-pacer in it. In pieces.

I used to have my plane there and volunteer managed the airport. Then the city had a major turnover of both elected officials and hired hands and airport safety was placed on the back burner. I finally gave up, resigned my position and moved my plane to a nearby airport (H88).

The most egregious issues (not nearly all):

1. No doors on hangars, county highway dept. gravel sifting operation 50 yards away. You couldn't keep an airplane clean (or safe).

2. No regular mowing schedule. I mowed the airport grounds far more than the city did each year in an attempt to keep it safe.

3. No regular maintenance or repair performed nor interest is supporting me in getting a mx program set up. One example: 12 of 50 runway lights worked. The rest had been run over by careless city employees while working. The city had no interest in getting the lighting system repaired even though I offered to volunteer all the labor.

4. When I resigned, I offered to sell then the 10' x 3' roller that I bought to keep the runway and taxiway rolled. I paid $1,500 for it, I thought discounting to to them @ $1000 would entice them. "Nahhhhh...we don't need that." Subsequently the grounds haven't been rolled in a year and it's a minefield of mole, groundhog and armadillo holes. Unsafe for aviation.

5. The state inspected (mo is a block grant state) in June of 2011. At his request, I drafted a letter for the Mayor's signature providing the state a timeline for correcting each issue. He approved the timeline, signed and sent the response. Three years later not one item has been corrected...the timeline had all discrepancies corrected in 18 months.

I absolutely love grass strips but this airport too needs to be closed.

It's sad, this little strip was once quite active, had a dozen aircraft based there and a flight school. But let's face it, the glory days are long gone.

 

[timwinters]

There is more to consider than just 'letting an airport die.' Each and every airport is part of the aviation infrastructure. Here in Georgia in the 60's, there was a program in place where the state would pay 50% and the county would pay 50% of the costs to build new airports around the state with the intention of an airport always being in site in case of emergencies or bad weather. Yes we have airports in small towns that don't see much usage on a regular basis, but it sure is nice to know they are there when and if needed.

But the fallacy of that thinking is that all the airports were built in Southern Georgia where it's flat, cheap to build them, and every farm field is an emergency landing site anyway.

Airports are few and far between in Northern Georgia, in the mountains, where one really needs an airport when the sh*t hits the fan.

Additionally, one should almost never need airports close together due to bad weather...as one might need in an emergency (i.e. within gliding distance from 10,000'). If the pilot didn't leave himself a back door to return to that airport 30 miles behind him? Captain's baby turtles saying comes to mind.

 

[brian]]

We have a local airport that was adopted by one of the EAA chapters. I was a little worried about the airport (4M3) as the only business I really noticed there was a crop duster. The rest of us were just local students doing touch and goes...

Now the EAA chapter is bringing the usual flock of RVs and the rest of the GA fliers once a month. Some of us return to buy gas.

Regardless, having a EAA chapter there is (in that case) getting more people interested in the airport.

Just an idea.

 

[ClimbnSink]

It seems insurmountable and in some parts of the country I'm sure it is(CA,Northeast.) But if there weren't so many crappy gov't airports people would build them for themselves. I've done a lot of flying off of privately owned airports, yes they often come with quirky owners, but hey I'd rather deal with someone quirky enough to own an airport then the gov't doing it for the public good. Let them die, if an airport is wanted let an individual(or private group) build it.

 

[Zeldman]

It's not that, I just don't see how naming the airport is relevant. I certainly don't have the money to buy the airport, though it would be cool to own your own airport. .

Its relevent to me because if it is close to my home town in Texas, I would be interested in helping. As of now all I can do is give moral support.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

If it were not for taxpayers money, ( provided by the state and federal govt.) most of mary lands smaller airports would have closed long ago. Probably true in many other states as well.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If it were not for taxpayers money, ( provided by the state and federal govt.) most of mary lands smaller airports would have closed long ago. Probably true in many other states as well.

And where airports were wanted and people had chutzpah they would have built them. go look in the hangars of privately owned airports good chance the airport owner also owns a fire truck or two. Just for fun. And because they have a place to keep it, with no one who can say they can't.

 

[timwinters]

go look in the hangars of privately owned airports good chance the airport owner also owns a fire truck or two.

I really doubt that anyone would do that! I mean no one would ever have an airport firetruck like this:

Or the airport rescue vehicle like this:

I mean, why would the airport owner need ground bound vehicles if he owns a plane like this:

This:

This:

This:

Or even this??????

Because he who dies with the most toys wins!!

That's why.

(and I've had the pleasure of flying every one of those planes except the Bonanza!)

 

[petrolero]

What is the number of local pilots? If the place was well run and had reasonable facilities would anyone show up? No point in keeping something no one wants.

Chicken and egg problem.

If you don't invest, people stop coming. If people aren't coming, why invest? This cycle of thinking dooms many many businesses.

The current owners, if they are indeed that complacent or lazy, are not likely to fix this problem. If the airport can be saved, it will take new ownership with an investor's mindset to get it done.

As part of the planning, I'd look at similar-sized communities with similar industries and airports and see how they are doing comparatively. What are their operation counts, municipal funding, cashflow, etc. Then estimate what it might take to get there - assuming "there" is at all attractive. Does this airport have any unique problems or advantages?

This is a lot of work and not something undertaken lightly. Obviously.