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Wow! Someone sure dislikes mechanics. Personally, I would take a freshly minted A&P fresh out of school before any non A&P CFI when it comes to understanding airplanes and how they work. The level of knowledge whether it be engine theory, electrical, hydraulic or other systems required to pass the A&P exams (written, oral and practical) is far beyond what is on any pilot exam and far beyond what most all pilots understand. To believe otherwise is pure foolishness.
 
Yeah, so far out of A&Ps I've used, 66,7% have been idiots. That's 2 out of 3. You're widely missing my point if you think I'm hating on A&Ps as a group, no. But I'm saying ,that the A&P title obviously doesn't guarantee you know what you are doing.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Wow! Someone sure dislikes mechanics. Personally, I would take a freshly minted A&P fresh out of school before any non A&P CFI when it comes to understanding airplanes and how they work. The level of knowledge whether it be engine theory, electrical, hydraulic or other systems required to pass the A&P exams (written, oral and practical) is far beyond what is on any pilot exam and far beyond what most all pilots understand. To believe otherwise is pure foolishness.
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Nah, you're taking the wrong point from my comment.

But I do say. If an A&P mechanic doesn't know, that you need an earth connected for an electrical component to work... That is the level of stupid I've met with these so far.

I work with engine theory for living, so I guess in there my standard for knowing is slightly different than an average A&P who thinks they understand how they work.
 
mtuomi said:
I work with engine theory for living, so I guess in there my standard for knowing is slightly different than an average A&P who thinks they understand how they work.
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You feed it money and it makes noise and hotness.

Signed, your fellow A&P.
 
mtuomi said:
Nah, you're taking the wrong point from my comment.

But I do say. If an A&P mechanic doesn't know, that you need an earth connected for an electrical component to work... That is the level of stupid I've met with these so far.

I work with engine theory for living, so I guess in there my standard for knowing is slightly different than an average A&P who thinks they understand how they work.
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So you've met one A&P that made one mistake and you judge us all by that. I've worked this industry in one capacity or another for nearly 60 years. If I judged all pilots and know-it-alls by the ones I've met. I would have never lasted this long.
The only reason you can make these accusations is because this page allows you to hide behind your little monicker on the internet, were you required to make these statements in the hangar you'd get your skull dented.
 
Tom-D said:
So you've met one A&P that made one mistake and you judge us all by that. I've worked this industry in one capacity or another for nearly 60 years. If I judged all pilots and know-it-alls by the ones I've met. I would have never lasted this long.
The only reason you can make these accusations is because this page allows you to hide behind your little monicker on the internet, were you required to make these statements in the hangar you'd get your skull dented.
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Lol. You completely missed the point I originally made and now take it personally. You are funny.
My name is pretty easy to figure out from my screen name, I don't have to hide behind aliases.
 
mtuomi said:
Lol. You completely missed the point I originally made and now take it personally. You are funny.
My name is pretty easy to figure out from my screen name, I don't have to hide behind aliases.
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I didn't miss the point you think A&P's are stupid. you made that point really quick.
Making funny about the statements you made doesn't hide the statements. I'm not the only A&P here. Skydog didn't like it much either.
 
Tom-D said:
I didn't miss the point you think A&P's are stupid. you made that point really quick.
Making funny about the statements you made doesn't hide the statements. I'm not the only A&P here. Skydog didn't like it much either.
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I'm sorry if you are unable to read and/or understand what you read.

I said: "Yes. My point was, a CFI can be perfectly capable of showing how those procedures are done, while an A&P might be completely clueless about it."
And I still think statement is 100% accurate.
 
mtuomi said:
But I do say. If an A&P mechanic doesn't know, that you need an earth connected for an electrical component to work... That is the level of stupid I've met with these so far.
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But I do say... wtf, you can't even complete a sentence. And, anyone that substitutes "earth" for ground, because they think it's cool, is the real idiot here.
 
mtuomi said:
I'm sorry if you are unable to read and/or understand what you read.

I said: "Yes. My point was, a CFI can be perfectly capable of showing how those procedures are done, while an A&P might be completely clueless about it."
And I still think statement is 100% accurate.
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Think again. you've judged us all by your experience. I read what was written.
 
GlennAB1 said:
But I do say... wtf, you can't even complete a sentence. And, anyone that substitutes "earth" for ground, because they think it's cool, is the real idiot here.
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"In electrical engineering, ground or earth is the reference point in an electrical circuit from which voltages are measured, a common return path forelectric current, or a direct physical connection to the Earth." <- here's some wikipedia. For you. "I do say... wtf" is hardly any better english, and I assume it is your first language so you should know it better than I do.

I don't call it earth because it's "cool", I call it earth because that's what I've always used. So far no-one has commented about it in a negative way.
 
Tom-D said:
Think again. you've judged us all by your experience. I read what was written.
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No I haven't. Show me where I have judged "you all" with "my experience"?
I simply said, that having an A&P means nothing about the skills and knowledge you have, and I gave examples that I have met that obviously confirm that statement. There are plenty of very good A&P's, but as with everything - titles don't mean jack.
 
mtuomi said:
"In electrical engineering, ground or earth is the reference point in an electrical circuit from which voltages are measured, a common return path forelectric current, or a direct physical connection to the Earth." <- here's some wikipedia. For you. "I do say... wtf" is hardly any better english, and I assume it is your first language so you should know it better than I do.

I don't call it earth because it's "cool", I call it earth because that's what I've always used. So far no-one has commented about it in a negative way.
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Ahhhh, you think "ground or earth" means they are the same thing. An earth ground and a return ground are very different. There is no earth ground with aircraft.
 
mtuomi said:
No I haven't. Show me where I have judged "you all" with "my experience"?.
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"I've yet to meet a full time A&P who understands how an engine works.
I've already met a few A&Ps who obviously didn't learn anything in school or from that experience.

just your words not mine. simple insults to a proud profession.

pull your head to and look around, in the real world there is a lot of A&Ps you've never met.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Ahhhh, you think "ground or earth" means they are the same thing. An earth ground and a return ground are very different.
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Yep. Don't know much about electrics. That's why I paid an A&P to do it. That's why I was quite shocked when I figured out I knew more about it than he did.
Show me a light bulb that "should work" with only the voltage connected to it, and nowhere for it to go. Those electrons ain't gonna swim far that way.
For this "highly trained" A&P I paid 500 for pointless nonsense, when in the end I had to point it out to him.
 
mtuomi said:
Yep. Don't know much about electrics. That's why I paid an A&P to do it. That's why I was quite shocked when I figured out I knew more about it than he did.
Show me a light bulb that "should work" with only the voltage connected to it, and nowhere for it to go. Those electrons ain't gonna swim far that way.
For this "highly trained" A&P I paid 500 for pointless nonsense, when in the end I had to point it out to him.
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one occasion yet you insult us all.
 
Tom-D said:
"I've yet to meet a full time A&P who understands how an engine works.
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Yep, what's wrong with that? That's not saying they are stupid or anything. Just that the people who do understand them fully don't work as full time A&Ps. My standard for "understanding" this subject is very different from "suck squeeze bang blow". Even FAA is clueless about this, using wrong terms and knowledge from the 60's in their materials.
Again, this was in the context of an A&P being a title that means you understand and can teach this to someone else. This I do not agree with, and this was my point from the beginning.
 
mtuomi said:
Yep, what's wrong with that? That's not saying they are stupid or anything. Just that the people who do understand them fully don't work as full time A&Ps.
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Now you re simply trying to spin it to look good.
 
Tom-D said:
one occasion yet you insult us all.
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No I didn't. You just seem to have problems understanding what you read. Just you. Read again:

"Yes. My point was, a CFI can be perfectly capable of showing how those procedures are done, while an A&P might be completely clueless about it."

Now, let's break this down into more understandable format:

"My point was" <- here I make it clear this is what I meant
"a CFI can be perfectly capable of showing how those procedures are done" <- here I use a conditional "can", saying they can or they might not be.
"while an A&P might be completely clueless" <- and here I say "might", another conditional statement, saying the fact he's an A&P doesn't mean he is necessarily qualified to show these procedures to anyone.

Somehow you decided this means I insulted every A&P in the planet. I'm sorry Tom, it's you.
 
mtuomi said:
No I didn't. You just seem to have problems understanding what you read. Just you. Read again:

"Yes. My point was, a CFI can be perfectly capable of showing how those procedures are done, while an A&P might be completely clueless about it."

Now, let's break this down into more understandable format:

"My point was" <- here I make it clear this is what I meant
"a CFI can be perfectly capable of showing how those procedures are done" <- here I use a conditional "can", saying they can or they might not be.
"while an A&P might be completely clueless" <- and here I say "might", another conditional statement, saying the fact he's an A&P doesn't mean he is necessarily qualified to show these procedures to anyone.

Somehow you decided this means I insulted every A&P in the planet. I'm sorry Tom, it's you.
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more spin.
 
mtuomi said:
Yep. Don't know much about electrics. That's why I paid an A&P to do it. That's why I was quite shocked when I figured out I knew more about it than he did.
Show me a light bulb that "should work" with only the voltage connected to it, and nowhere for it to go. Those electrons ain't gonna swim far that way.
For this "highly trained" A&P I paid 500 for pointless nonsense, when in the end I had to point it out to him.
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I'd show you many lights on an aircraft that only have a power wire going to them. They use the aircraft structure as return ground. Wanna quit now?
 
GlennAB1 said:
I'd show you many lights on an aircraft that only have a power wire going to them. They use the aircraft structure as return ground. Wanna quit now?
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Struggling with reading again? Seems to be a theme here. "voltage connected to it, and _NOWHERE FOR IT TO GO_" was what I said. Comprende? Show me a light on an aircraft where this is true.
Not relevant in this context. This bulb required a ground/earth/negative/black wire/call it whatever going somewhere. And it was loose in the fuselage.
 
mtuomi said:
Struggling with reading again? Seems to be a theme here. "voltage connected to it, and _NOWHERE FOR IT TO GO_" was what I said. Comprende? Show me a light on an aircraft where this is true.
Not relevant in this context. This bulb required a ground/earth/negative/black wire/call it whatever going somewhere. And it was loose in the fuselage.
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Cessna 170 cabin light? most landing lights in the wing. want more? To save weight the return path is built into the fixture holding the bulb. Even this stupid old A&P knew that. most untrained will look for a wire.
 
Tom-D said:
Cessna 170 cabin light? most landing lights in the wing. want more? To save weight the return path is built into the fixture holding the bulb. Even this stupid old A&P knew that. most untrained will look for a wire.
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Ok. So how is that relevant to the question I asked?

"voltage connected to it, and _NOWHERE FOR IT TO GO_"

Those lights you mentioned all have a path through the fixture. In this case it was not, and it was pretty damn obvious because untrained me saw it in about 3 seconds. When a bulb with its fixture is hanging from the wire, not connected to anything but the red and black wires (or whatever the colors were), and the black/ground/earth/whatever wire is connected to the socket but disconnected in the other end - I'm sorry, but saying "it should work" is pure and simple - stupidity.
But obviously you'll take this and spin it whatever way you want to try to excuse your earlier lack of understanding what was said.
 
mtuomi said:
Ok. So how is that relevant to the question I asked?

"voltage connected to it, and _NOWHERE FOR IT TO GO_"
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The "NOWHERE TO GO" isn't apparent to the untrained eye. and you already told us you weren't good at wires.
 
mtuomi said:
I'm sorry, but saying "it should work" is pure and simple - stupidity.
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and so you made several statements that A&Ps are stupid from the one occasion.
 
Tom-D said:
The "NOWHERE TO GO" isn't apparent to the untrained eye. and you already told us you weren't good at wires.
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Yep, and even I figured out the problem. When the fixture is not bolted on to the plane, where the heck does the current flow? Wireless back to the fuselage? :D
 
mtuomi said:
Yep, and even I figured out the problem. When the fixture is not bolted on to the plane, where the heck does the current flow? Wireless back to the fuselage? :D
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Here's a thought, the A&P blew you off to get you to leave. and took the 500 to compensate for your creating the frustration.
 
Tom-D said:
Here's a thought, the A&P blew you off to get you to leave. and took the 500 to compensate for your creating the frustration.
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Unlikely, the bill was done when I went to pick the plane up after he said he can't find the problem but we should start throwing money at the problem. He was still putting the plastic bits back on, when I asked should this wire be connected. At that point, the light in question was still hanging outside with only the two wires connected to it. He said no there are extra ground points everywhere. I'm not a helicopter parent to my plane. I let the A&P do their thing and fix the plane, I just write the check.
 
mtuomi said:
He was still putting the plastic bits back on, when I asked should this wire be connected. At that point, the light in question was still hanging outside with only the two wires connected to it.
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Ahhhh, more to the equation that we should have somehow known... thanks.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Ahhhh, more to the equation that we should have somehow known... thanks, prick.
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Prick? Really? Is that the best you can do? Try harder next time mmkay?
You see - this was not meant to be an accurate description of events, because they were completely irrelevant to the point I made (you remember, when I said "my point is"?).
 
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