Retracting flaps on landing

[MAKG1]

Hmm, I always saw that recommendation as slowing down the pilot to make clean up more deliberate. You can actually use the checklist and/or confirm flows when you aren't also trying to keep the airplane on centerline.

Frankly, the part I like least is not the flap switch, but rather the cowl flap lever, as it's a long reach and a bit hard to keep watching the runway.

 

[brian]]

This happened while the plane was sitting still, engine running? And someone raised the gear handle?

Most collapsed nose gear I have seen was due to something broke in the gear itself, the downlock not working or hitting something a little too big, all while moving. I have seen the mains, one or both collapse while landing because the J lock didn't work or the spar was broken, or hit something.

I have never seen or heard of a plane sitting still and the gear raises when the gear handle is raised. I jokingly questioned my instructor about the gear going up on the ground, and he just reached over and raised the gear handle on the Piper Seminole, not a thing happened, no gear unsafe light, no hydraulic pump noise, nothing.

And yes, discipline is just part of knowing your aircraft and your personal limitations. I have 1000s of hours on gravel strips, and not raising flaps on the roll out will eventually ensure destroyed flaps, on both fixed and retracts.

I've heard that it is possible. Then again, I have a (nearly) 70 year old aircraft and a SINGLE 70 year old squat switch protecting me from a gear collapse (assuming I'm dumb enough to move that switch while on the ground).

My vote: If the gear folds, do touch, stop and goes.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

yep. Everyone I've met who has done it said the exact same thing as you prior to the event.

So.....the obvious question would be......how many people have you met that have done this? In fifty years of flying, I've never met , or heard of anyone who has done this. I do know of three that forgot to put the gear down prior to landing. Different circumstance altogether.

 

[JHW]

So.....the obvious question would be......how many people have you met that have done this? In fifty years of flying, I've never met , or heard of anyone who has done this. I do know of three that forgot to put the gear down prior to landing. Different circumstance altogether.

6 that I can think of offhand. I met them in the course of retrieving their airplanes.

 

[LearDriver]

What does it say in your POH?

 

[Jim Logajan]

For what little it is worth, I noticed when I flew Alaska Air from Eugene, OR to San Jose, CA with a stop in Seattle last week that the Dash 8 pilots on landing in Seattle and Eugene would start retracting flaps just before turning off the runway and the 737-400 pilots on landing in San Jose and Seattle also began retracting flaps just before turning off the runway.

(This useless bit of knowledge was gained at the cost of getting up at 4 AM to catch a 6:15 AM flight to do a product demo in Scotts Valley, CA with a return flight that got me home by just after 11 PM the same day. I rarely get to bed earlier than midnight, so it was somewhat tiring but not as bad as I feared. No idea yet whether the prospect will become a customer.)

 

[fiftiesdean]

What does it say in your POH?

After Landing
1. Wing Flaps - UP

 

[peerlesscowboy]

6 that I can think of offhand. I met them in the course of retrieving their airplanes.

What do you do that you have personal knowledge and involvement in no less than six instances of a type incident that most of us have only heard of as something that could plausably happen?

 

[Sac Arrow]

Two questions:

1. Why would anyone raise the gear lever on a plane sitting still on the ground? (Or on the ground at any speed really)

2. If you've decided you need to dump the lift in order to make the performance for a landing runway why wouldn't you raise the flaps? The numbers say you need to, right? So why wouldn't you? Is going off the runway better?

Again it depends on the plane. Arrow? No possibility of confusion between the gear switch and the flap lever. Debonair or older Bonanza? They look identical and are close to each other.

 

[Jaybird180]

I jokingly questioned my instructor about the gear going up on the ground, and he just reached over and raised the gear handle on the Piper Seminole, not a thing happened, no gear unsafe light, no hydraulic pump noise, nothing.

I've once heard of the same demonstration done and something DID happen.

 

[Captain]

Again it depends on the plane. Arrow? No possibility of confusion between the gear switch and the flap lever. Debonair or older Bonanza? They look identical and are close to each other.

Which question were you saying an Arrow is immune from? Raising the gear whilst parked or going off the end of the runway? Those are the only two I posited...

 

[Sac Arrow]

Which question were you saying an Arrow is immune from? Raising the gear whilst parked or going off the end of the runway? Those are the only two I posited...

The first, of course. I suppose a Piper retract isn't "immune" from having its gear raised while on the ground either, but it won't be a result of an action to raise the flaps, that's all.

 

[Jaybird180]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA_qHBzH2nw

I wonder just how cost effective that touch and go was?

If you were to try and change configurations during the landing rollout in my airplane I'd break your fingers. Of course there are situations where you'd want to dump the flaps, but if it's one of your SOPs you really need to rethink the way you do things.

There were multiple failures on that, starting with too much speed on touchdown (hint: look hold long the plane floated).

Not conclusive that the TnG was the culprit that caused the damage, but I suspect the runway loss of control had a lot to do with it.

 

[MAKG1]

There were multiple failures on that, starting with too much speed on touchdown (hint: look hold long the plane floated).

Not conclusive that the TnG was the culprit that caused the damage, but I suspect the runway loss of control had a lot to do with it.

If you look really closely, you'll see that all three wheels are off the ground right before the cloud of dust. He lifted off a bit slow, yanked the gear and flaps up in ground effect, and settled back to the runway.

Yes, there was all kinds of fail in that, especially leaving the flaps down until lift off, but it's quite clear that the gear went up too early.

 

[JHW]

What do you do that you have personal knowledge and involvement in no less than six instances of a type incident that most of us have only heard of as something that could plausably happen?

I used to do airplane repo work and got referrels from an insurance company to retrieve airplanes from fields or off their belly.

It's easy to read about someone you don't know who made a stupid mistake and think in an abstract way, s/he is an idiot, no thinking person could ever do something that stupid.

But when you meet those people and learn a little about them, you realize that they are just like the rest of us, no better no worse. Anyone can have a brain fart. So I've adopted the philosophy of avoiding situations where I have unnecessary risk of totalling my airplane.

I don't need to raise flaps while moving in my travel air, the strip at our farm is 1500ft and it stops just fine even on wet grass. Yet I have had people preach at me that "brakes are more effective with flaps up" as they touch down way too fast on a 2500ft dry-pavement runway. To me, things like that are just going out of your way to increase the odds of an accident. But to each his own.

Are there situations where you should dump flaps on touchdown? Sure. Have 99% of the people who do it as SOP actually tested braking performance in their own airplane to see if it matters? I doubt it.