Resume Own Navigation

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JOhnH

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We were on flight following in Arizona a few months ago with a destination on file. When transiting Bravo we were assigned a heading and altitude. After several minutes we were told to "resume own navigation", so we pointed our Bo towards home and went back to our previous altitude. Shortly thereafter ATC called up to ask why we changed from our assigned altitude. When we said we were advised to "resume own navigation", we were told that when assigned an altitude, we need to maintain that altitude until specifically told otherwise.

Is this right?
 
Yep. You have a clearance to transit Class B and the controller assigned you an altitude, and heading, to fly. Resuming 'own nav' is just what it implies, navigate on your own but maintain altitude. Perhaps the controller should have added 'maintain (altitude)' to be clear about it.
 
Controllers are rightfully concerned about altitude. They can see lateral relationships between data blocks but have to read the data in each block to determine altitude. Seems simple to us, but to a busy controller with a screen full of data blocks there is little time for that. Don't change altitude on your own unless you clue in the controller: "BuzzBomb 345X leaving 4500 feet for 6500 feet" should do it.

Bob Gardner
 
Oh the controller will notice you changing altitude! When I did it in the Air Force I once had a flight of 4 T38s climbing out on a SID to maintain 6000'. A recovery to the base went right over the top of that SID at 7000'. One of the 38s had a problem and the flight went thru 6000' and there was a T37 at 7000' right overhead. Fortunately I got their attention (and they had mine!) and we didn't have a 'near hit' (as George Carlin calls it RIP).
 
JOhnH said:
We were on flight following in Arizona a few months ago with a destination on file. When transiting Bravo we were assigned a heading and altitude. After several minutes we were told to "resume own navigation", so we pointed our Bo towards home and went back to our previous altitude. Shortly thereafter ATC called up to ask why we changed from our assigned altitude. When we said we were advised to "resume own navigation", we were told that when assigned an altitude, we need to maintain that altitude until specifically told otherwise.

Is this right?
Click to expand...
Yes. Keep the same altitude. Ok to change course.
 
Yeah, when I hear that it is normally something along the lines of "resume own nav, maintain at or above XXXX until the initial, contact tower". I can see how not attaching a continuing altitude restriction (if applicable) to that comm might be confusing, though I honestly have no idea if that is required from a controller by the letter of the law.
 
Just remember that the number one reason for flight following is for traffic avoidance. Altitude separation is a big part of that so they need to know your plans in regards to altitude changes to provide you the service you are requesting the best they can. So you should always advise ATC when changing altitudes when you are on flight following. You do not however need their permission to do so. The exception would be if you are transiting airspace such as Class B. Then you must maintain your assigned altitude.

Remember they can terminate your flight following at their convenience so you should always play nice with them.

At least that is how I was trained and is how I interpret it.
 
Mr

mscard88 said:
Yep. You have a clearance to transit Class B and the controller assigned you an altitude, and heading, to fly. Resuming 'own nav' is just what it implies, navigate on your own but maintain altitude. Perhaps the controller should have added 'maintain (altitude)' to be clear about it.
Click to expand...

I'm not the OP but have a follow-up. if I've been assigned a heading of XXX when im told I can 'resume own nav' does that mean I can change my heading while maintaining the assigned altitude?
 
Re: Mr

rk911 said:
I'm not the OP but have a follow-up. if I've been assigned a heading of XXX when im told I can 'resume own nav' does that mean I can change my heading while maintaining the assigned altitude?
Click to expand...

Yes.

----
 
Regardless of the mis-interpretation of "resume own nav"...that is one reason ehe AIM specifically says that VFR pilots receiving radar series "should" advise ATC of any altitude changes.

Not "must" nor "request"...but simply "Approach, Cessna XYX VFR decent to 6,500"
 
If you were in the Bravo, you must maintain the altitude assigned until advised, "resume normal VFR altitudes."
 
Shawn said:
Regardless of the mis-interpretation of "resume own nav"...that is one reason ehe AIM specifically says that VFR pilots receiving radar series "should" advise ATC of any altitude changes.

Not "must" nor "request"...but simply "Approach, Cessna XYX VFR decent to 6,500"
Click to expand...



I do this (and I'm not IFR rated, btw) and I always get a response from them that seems to say, "Don't tell us that..."


I don't remember the exact response, but something about being VFR so its my choice.
 
tawood said:
I do this (and I'm not IFR rated, btw) and I always get a response from them that seems to say, "Don't tell us that..."


I don't remember the exact response, but something about being VFR so its my choice.
Click to expand...
When I'm on FF and I tell approach I'm beginning my VFR descent they just say roger. Some approach facilities will tell you that to notify them when you want to begin the descent.
 
Good answers here.
I'll just chime in to clarify. When they say "resume own navigation" or "cleared on course", that involves only lateral navigation. Altitude is an extra parameter of flight, not included in navigation.
This comes up from time to time. I have quizzed some newly minted pilots in the past just for S&G and found out that most of them did not know. *eep*
 
tawood said:
I do this (and I'm not IFR rated, btw) and I always get a response from them that seems to say, "Don't tell us that..."


I don't remember the exact response, but something about being VFR so its my choice.
Click to expand...

"VFR Altitude your discretion."

I always heard it too, so I stopped reporting it.
 
JOhnH said:
We were on flight following in Arizona a few months ago with a destination on file. When transiting Bravo we were assigned a heading and altitude. After several minutes we were told to "resume own navigation", so we pointed our Bo towards home and went back to our previous altitude. Shortly thereafter ATC called up to ask why we changed from our assigned altitude. When we said we were advised to "resume own navigation", we were told that when assigned an altitude, we need to maintain that altitude until specifically told otherwise.

Is this right?
Click to expand...

First, "flight following", by itself, is just traffic advisories and safety alerts. ATC does not have authority to assign headings, altitudes, routes, or speeds. No separation from other aircraft is provided. While you are in Class B airspace you are receiving Class B services which does include separation from other aircraft, both IFR and VFR. Where ATC is responsible for separation it has authority to achieve the required separation through assignment of headings, altitudes, etc.

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:
RESUME OWN NAVIGATION− Used by ATC to
advise a pilot to resume his/her own navigational
responsibility. It is issued after completion of a radar
vector or when radar contact is lost while the aircraft
is being radar vectored.
(See RADAR CONTACT LOST.)
(See RADAR SERVICE TERMINATED.)
Click to expand...
That's the only place the phrase appears in the AIM. It is not explicit in that definition that it applies only to lateral guidance, it is implicit because "own navigation" is used only in conjunction with lateral guidance.

In none of the phraseology examples in the ATC order is "resume own navigation" used alone. When vectors have fulfilled their purpose the prescribed phrase is; "(Position with respect to course/fix along route), RESUME OWN NAVIGATION".

When exiting a TRSA the prescribed phrases are; "LEAVING THE (name) TRSA, RESUME OWN NAVIGATION, REMAIN THIS FREQUENCY FOR TRAFFIC ADVISORIES", and, "LEAVING THE (name) TRSA, RADAR SERVICE TERMINATED, SQUAWK ONE TWO ZERO ZERO".

When exiting Class B airspace the prescribed phrases are; "LEAVING (name) BRAVO AIRSPACE, RESUME OWN NAVIGATION, REMAIN THIS FREQUENCY FOR TRAFFIC ADVISORIES", and, "LEAVING (name) BRAVO AIRSPACE, RESUME OWN NAVIGATION, RADAR SERVICE TERMINATED, SQUAWK ONE TWO ZERO ZERO."

In your case you were in Class B airspace and assigned a heading and altitude. When the heading was no longer needed but the altitude still was the controller told you to "resume own navigation". IME, the phrase "proceed on course" works well for this purpose. I've never had anyone question it, never had anyone conclude it erased any assigned altitude or altitude restriction. The problem with it however is that it is not standard phraseology. It's not in the P/CG, it appears nowhere in the AIM. It appears in the ATC order only with regard to the DC SFRA:
9−2−10. WASHINGTON, DC, SPECIAL
FLIGHT RULES AREA (DC SFRA)/ATC
SECURITY SERVICES

a. When the assigned code is observed, advise the
aircraft to proceed on course/as requested but to
remain outside of Class B, C, and/or D airspace as
appropriate.

PHRASEOLOGY−
(ACID) TRANSPONDER OBSERVED PROCEED ON
COURSE/AS REQUESTED; REMAIN OUTSIDE (class)
AIRSPACE.
Click to expand...
Note that "proceed on course" is used there without any definition or explanation. It's pretty clearly self-explanatory.
 
I actually had a test question on this for my instrument written exam! So my CFII was telling me that I have to tell ATC something along the lines of "Leaving 5000 for 3000" as an example.
 
Blueangel said:
I actually had a test question on this for my instrument written exam! So my CFII was telling me that I have to tell ATC something along the lines of "Leaving 5000 for 3000" as an example.
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I wouldn't change altitudes if you're IFR and ATC says resume own navigation.
 
roncachamp said:
First, "flight following", by itself, is just traffic advisories and safety alerts. ATC does not have authority to assign headings, altitudes, routes, or speeds.
.
.
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Click to expand...
Thanks for the thorough write up.

I'd like to say that the reason I posted this was not to complain about ATC, but rather to confirm my ignorance of the rule so that it will be firm in my head next time.

I realize there are limitations to ATC authority, but I am almost always happy to oblige their request, unless they are going to put my aircraft in any sort of jeopardy.

In this case, the controller was actually very polite as he explained the proper procedure to us, and almost apologized for not being more clear in his instruction (ie, resume own navigation; maintain altitude).

My only follow up question is to ask if my wife (VFR pilot w ~1,000 hours) and I are among the few that knew that "resume own navigation" applied only to course and not altitude.

The funniest part of the story on that trip was that we had to land at PHX (class Bravo) to obtain "emergency?" repair to our landing gear, which would not retract. When we called for a weather briefing prior to departure and told them we were in a single engine Bonanza and departing PHX, he chuckled and said "you're kidding". But other than our one little indiscretion; approach and departure from Bravo was among the easiest we have done because ATC gave us explicit instructions all the way to short final.
 
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tawood said:
I do this (and I'm not IFR rated, btw) and I always get a response from them that seems to say, "Don't tell us that..."


I don't remember the exact response, but something about being VFR so its my choice.
Click to expand...

SkyHog said:
"VFR Altitude your discretion."

I always heard it too, so I stopped reporting it.
Click to expand...

AIM is expicilty clear to advise ATC...but MANY pilots (not saying you specifically) REQUEST an altitude change which can result in an irritated controller as you are tying up unnecessary air time with a back and forth converastion. Simply a statement "descending to XXXX". "VFR altitude at your discretion" is the ATC acknowledgment of that radio call. Sometimes it is simply "roger". If ATC gets crabby with that advisory as prescribed by the AIM, that is their problem, not mine.

If you are making a statement or question regarding FF altitude change that requires ATC to respond with ANYTHING other than "Roger" or "Thank You" then you are not advising...you are making a request which is unnecessary. There is a subtle but significant important distinction between the two.
 
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Shawn said:
AIM is expicilty clear to advise ATC...but MANY pilots (not saying you specifically) REQUEST an altitude change which can result in an irritated controller as you are tying up unnecessary air time with a back and forth converastion. Simply a statement "descending to XXXX". "VFR altitude at your discretion" is the ATC acknowledgment of that radio call. Sometimes it is simply "roger". If ATC gets crabby with that advisory as prescribed by the AIM, that is their problem, not mine.

If you are making a statement or question regarding FF altitude change that requires ATC to respond with ANYTHING other than "Roger" or "Thank You" then you are not advising...you are making a request which is unnecessary. There is a subtle but significant important distinction between the two.
Click to expand...

Nope. Here's how it always went:

Me: NXXXYY, descending to 5,500 ft
ATC: Roger, XYY, VFR Altitude your discretion

Later
Me: NXXXYY, ascending to 9,500 ft
ATC: Roger, XYY, again, VFR altitude your discretion.

Happens all the time with ABQ Center, LA Center, Fort Worth Center and others. I can only assume that the advisory (not regulatory) suggestion in the AIM is not what ATC wants to hear.
 
Heard a rather testy exchange from (I think it was) Greensboro Approach and a pilot on an IFR plan that went something like "When we say resume own navigation it means go back to following your cleared route not direct to your destination."

At least the guy didn't offer that people compliment him on the accuracy of his instruments.
 
flyingron said:
Heard a rather testy exchange from (I think it was) Greensboro Approach and a pilot on an IFR plan that went something like "When we say resume own navigation it means go back to following your cleared route not direct to your destination."
Click to expand...

"FLY HEADING (heading), WHEN ABLE PROCEED DIRECT (fix on previously cleared route)" works pretty well in that situation.
 
flyingron said:
Heard a rather testy exchange from (I think it was) Greensboro Approach and a pilot on an IFR plan that went something like "When we say resume own navigation it means go back to following your cleared route not direct to your destination."
Click to expand...

Hey, always worth a shot right? :)
 
in my experience resume own navigation, or anything regarding navigation is for lateral navigation not vertical. even if on a sid or star you need to be told to climb via or descend via it to have to comply with the altitudes, even if your laterally navigating
 
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