Resignation???

gismo

gismo

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iGismo
Dr Chien has indicated that he's leaving PoA due to an issue about "heavy handed moderation". I'm not sure if this is what he's referring to but there was a recent flap about a moderator closing a thread in MM. The thread was very old and recently resurected by a spammer. That post was deleted but the thread picked up steam and headed off in an innocent but very non medical direction and was closed for that reason. Apparently (I have only second hand knowledge of this) some members protested the closing as unnecessary and "heavy handed" (off the webboard), perhaps trying to get one moderator to override another. What I actually saw didn't look all that ugly, but it sounds like there may have been a bit of name calling etc in the private communication. BTW, FWIW AFaIK Bruce wasn't the one who closed the thread in the first place.

And to Bruce: I also hope you will reconsider, but I can certainly understand how you must feel when catching flack for stupid stuff like this after all you've given. I just want you to know that the vast majority of the participants here really appreciate what you've been doing as both a medical advisor and moderator, and I know we don't say it often enough so....

Thanks!
 
lancefisher said:
I just want you to know that the vast majority of the participants here really appreciate what you've been doing as both a medical advisor and moderator, and I know we don't say it often enough so....

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I second what Lance says.
 
lancefisher said:
And to Bruce: I also hope you will reconsider, but I can certainly understand how you must feel when catching flack for stupid stuff like this after all you've given. I just want you to know that the vast majority of the participants here really appreciate what you've been doing as both a medical advisor and moderator, and I know we don't say it often enough so....

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Absolutely! Bruce is an asset of immeasurable value.
 
Bruce, I've been gone a few days and missed this flap. Say it ain't so...bit if it must be, thanks for sharing so much for so long to so many!
 
Noo! Dr Bruce don't go! I don't know the circumstances of your decision to leave but there are many here who will very much miss your participation.

Missa
 
Before this gets too far out of hand (like it hasn't already), I'm going to say a few things to squelch some rumors already starting. I'm sure there are some e-mails flying around about this already.

1. The issue was regarding the closed thread in Medical Matters.
2. Due to some complaints directed to specific members of the Management Team, a discussion started in the Management forum.
3. There was a disagreement regarding how some things should have been handled.

Those are facts. I'm not going into details since I really don't think it's my place at the moment.

But...

Please keep in mind: this IS a moderated forum. The thread in question drifted so far off-topic in a very topic specific forum. If it had been in HT or even some other aviation forums, I know nothing would have happened. Per the second to the last bullet point in the Rules of Conduct, it was felt that the thread should be closed to maintain the integrity of the forum's mission.

"Heavy handed" is a relative term and without definition. To each of us, it means something different. The argument was heated and unfortunate, even some things from yours truly (imagine that!). It was hoped that everyone would calm down over the weekend and not make any decisions until emotions had cooled down. Someone decided not to wait that long, I guess.
 
Brian, it sounds like you are still carrying some of that. I want you to go over and shake hands. DO IT!


I used to volunteer for a lot of stuff. I still do but not as much, I found out the hard way that I needed to be much more discreet. The higher up in the org--any org--the more exposure you incur.

That is very telling of the mindsets of people who claim to have a common interest. Benefit of the doubt and trust goes right out the window. Add support of one another's decisions to that.
 
DocB,
I will not question your reasons for leaving, they are yours and you obviously feel strongly about them. You will be missed on this board. I hope, oone day soon, that you are able to again be a member of this board. In the mean time if I have questions I do know where to find you.

Scott
 
Perhaps against my better judgement, I'm going to stick my nose in this. It'll probably end up getting smacked.

Online forums are terrible places to have discussions about resolving problems. Much better on the phone or in-person. Something like 90% of communication is through non-verbal clues. In an online setting, none of those clues exist.

I appreciate the (sometimes thankless) job that the moderators have. And the great effort that went into putting this board together. I chafed early on at the way some of the rules came down and were enforced, but in the end, I concluded that this was not OUR board, it was the board of the folks that set it up.... and they'd run it the way they saw fit. Part of the reason I stay out of this type of discussion.

The other trueism is that technical folks can come across as abrasive and imperious. (I'll say it here - I was originally trained as an engineer, and spent a lot of time and effort to learn 'people skills' in order to manage folks better.) Technically inclined folks can get into a frame of mind where they don't see the views of others - not a slap at anyone, it's just the way it is. Sometimes you can be 'right', but no one wants to deal with you. (Worse, we're talking about pilots - what's the saying? 'How do you know there's a pilot in the room? He'll tell you?')

I have seen some stuff from a couple of the board moderators that could be read as conveying a pretty imperious attitude. I've met all but one of the board moderators, and find them to be quite personable. Hence, I blew off the stuff that seemed abrasive as being lack of good communication.

Yeah, I chafe at heavy-handed moderation, but I also note that this board has less moderation than one of the type-group forums I occasionally participate in. I rarely participate there because a bunch of stuff gets deleted if it's not rah-rah about the breed.

It's unfortunate that it came to this. I have great respect for all here, and I'm sorry to see a split. I can only hope that folks 'kiss and make up' to reach an acceptable medium. If not, I think the impact on this little community will be really bad.

My $0.02
 
Dr. Bruce;

I have been away for a few days. I just got back and I am reading this tread started by Lance (Thank you Lance, your words say it so well). I feel like a ship without a captain. You helped this older pilot with some very tough issues. I cannot thank you enough. Gosh I do hope that with time you might reconsider but I will always respect and honor your wishes.

John J.
 
We pilots can always use the valuable input from a highly experienced and articulate CFII/AME such as yourself and I hope to see you posting again here soon, for the benefit of all pilots. Besides, what would you do with all that free time anyway ?
 
Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Bill!
Well, its the internet and we all get our say; here is my thoughts, direct from the offices of Dr. D. Psychoshrink:

When arguing with family, at work, with anyone, (well,... when I am not absolutely red with rage!) I try to recall the perspective of 'how important is this issue compared to the importance of the relationship?' (now, when I'm on the phone with huge, non-responsive corporations I tend to relax my inhibitions a little!). Usually when I really think hard about it -or at least when I am not spitting mad- I find that the issue ends up being tiny compared to the real importance of that relationship. In fact, unless a person is a grudge-holder with a long memory, I find that the issue often evaporates over time... and we are left scratching our heads, wondering what the fuss was all about much later.

Anyway, I hope that all involved have done so, and asked themselves 'how important is the issue compared to their relationship with POA itself/with POA members?' I was not in on the issue at all, but from what little we have been told it seems to me (from my out-of-the-loop perspective) that the original disagreement was maybe kind of minor? and possibly the interactions after that point got out of hand, making it a really big issue.

This possibility seems very plausible to me because of my own experiences with family. My whole point is the baby and the bathwater thing. Sometimes I find saying "well, we might have to just disagree on this one point" or "I'm sorry - let's carry on" allows a relationship to survive rather than be toppled by one 'butting of heads'.
 
Well put, Dave. You are right about evaluating disagreements in terms of the important of the relationship, and having a long-range view.

I think one of the biggest problems, as Bill pointed out, is the lack of nonverbal cues in online communications. This alone so distorts our meanings. In one of my earlier lives, I typed depositions for court reporters. The finished scripts seem cold and abrupt. I have also sat in courtrooms, and the same communications -- with inflections, pauses, eye contact, etc. -- sound precise, but human. All the warmth is missing from this typing, which is why we're drawn to using smilies.

Most of the conflicts I've seen on webboards (and they seem universal!) seem to relate to power or control issues. These are particularly hard to resolve online, much better face to face. Online we end up with losers and winners, the losers having less power, the winners more; in real life we have compromise and insight, and we all win.
 
Toby said:
Most of the conflicts I've seen on webboards (and they seem universal!) seem to relate to power or control issues. These are particularly hard to resolve online, much better face to face. Online we end up with losers and winners, the losers having less power, the winners more; in real life we have compromise and insight, and we all win.
Click to expand...
Very well said, Toby.
 
Toby said:
Well put, Dave. You are right about evaluating disagreements in terms of the important of the relationship, and having a long-range view.

I think one of the biggest problems, as Bill pointed out, is the lack of nonverbal cues in online communications. This alone so distorts our meanings. In one of my earlier lives, I typed depositions for court reporters. The finished scripts seem cold and abrupt. I have also sat in courtrooms, and the same communications -- with inflections, pauses, eye contact, etc. -- sound precise, but human. All the warmth is missing from this typing, which is why we're drawn to using smilies.

Most of the conflicts I've seen on webboards (and they seem universal!) seem to relate to power or control issues. These are particularly hard to resolve online, much better face to face. Online we end up with losers and winners, the losers having less power, the winners more;

in real life we have compromise and insight, and we all win.
Click to expand...

"In a good compromise, all parties should come away somewhat displeased with their portion." (Ben Franklin ???)
Although not necessarily always true, it's a place to start...
Click to expand...
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
'how important is this issue compared to the importance of the relationship?' ...... I find that the issue often evaporates over time... and we are left scratching our heads, wondering what the fuss was all about much later.
Click to expand...

Well said, Dave. I hope this just wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back. Anyway, it is a sad day, I enjoy this board immensly.
 
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