Resetting tripped circuit breaker

[weirdjim]

I was taught a breaker should be rated at 150% of the max load..

Sorry Bob, I disagree. You rate the breaker for the WIRE SIZE you are trying to protect, not the max load.

Jim

 

[Bob Weber]

Sorry Bob, I disagree. You rate the breaker for the WIRE SIZE you are trying to protect, not the max load.

Jim

The wire size is set to carry the max load of the breaker indeed, the breaker is selected as I explained above, the way I was taught anyways.

 

[MuseChaser]

Figure the maximum load, size your wire to carry that plus a safety margin, then the breaker rating is chosen to protect the wire, i.e., the breaker should trip before the wire melts. As Jim said, the breaker is there to protect the wiring. A 5 amp breaker on a circuit w/ 2 gauge wire that will draw no more than 5 amps is fine.... nonsensical, but fine. A 10 amp breaker on a circuit that is expected to carry no more than 10 amps that has 24 gauge wire is NOT.

Load, then wire size to carry the load plus margin, then breaker rated less than the wire it's protecting. Choosing the breaker rating is the last step in the process.

 

[Bell206]

I was taught a breaker should be rated at 150% of the max load.

Not quite. It's always been the wire rating that determines CB rating as stated above and in most guidance. So I don't know where you may have learned that. Here's one example (AC43.13-1B):

 

[Bob Weber]

Not quite. It's always been the wire rating that determines CB rating as stated above and in most guidance. So I don't know where you may have learned that. Here's one example (AC43.13-1B):
View attachment 79416

"whichever is lowest"

"A circuit breaker must always open before any component downstream can overheat and generate smoke or fire. Wires must be sized to carry continuous current in excess of the circuit protective device rating."

I always use the old adage " what comes first, the cart or the chicken"...

 

[Bell206]

a breaker should be rated at 150% of the max load.

"whichever is lowest"

So which one is it, 150% of max load or the lowest?

 

[Bob Weber]

Every installation print I've ever worked with, dictates the size of the "circuit protective device" (this covers the really old ones that called out a fuse), required. Many, then indicated the wire size needed to satisfy 43.13.

On the back of many circuit breakers I've seen, there is a "line" and a "load" terminal. Wiring, is the line, and the device the circuit breaker is protecting is the load.

Through my years on the bench, I found the 150% rule.

A KC 295 flight computer has a 1.4 amp spec. for a 14 volt unit, the servos and computer require a 10 amp CB in the STC I just pulled up. The theory is that when everybody is drawing their rated current, you want about 50% more from the CB to prevent nuisance trips. The wire is then sized accordingly.

 

[Bell206]

Through my years on the bench, I found the 150% rule.

The theory is...you want about 50% more from the CB to prevent nuisance trips.

The wire is then sized accordingly.

So, the 150% "rule" is a personal opinion? I've been around long enough to work with fuses and actually understand the difference between line and load. So your "theory" is based on so called "nuisance" trips that have zero regulatory substance? Am I reading your responses wrong, or do you believe that the current FAA guidance is wrong? But from what I was taught, practiced, and found guidance in, it's electrical load, then wire size, THEN circuit protection. However, if you have any legit reference to prove otherwise, then I'm always open to learn something new.

 

[MuseChaser]

Every installation print I've ever worked with, dictates the size of the "circuit protective device" (this covers the really old ones that called out a fuse), required. Many, then indicated the wire size needed to satisfy 43.13.

On the back of many circuit breakers I've seen, there is a "line" and a "load" terminal. Wiring, is the line, and the device the circuit breaker is protecting is the load.

Through my years on the bench, I found the 150% rule.

A KC 295 flight computer has a 1.4 amp spec. for a 14 volt unit, the servos and computer require a 10 amp CB in the STC I just pulled up. The theory is that when everybody is drawing their rated current, you want about 50% more from the CB to prevent nuisance trips. The wire is then sized accordingly.

I'm a total nobody...just a musician who likes to fly airplanes, build and repair stereo equipment, and likes to renovate old things... but your posts in this thread are really making me see your other thread in completely different light.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/saving-money.122345/

I'd hope that someone charging $150/hr for telephone consultations would have a VERY solid grasp of these basics. I had originally discounted the antogonistic new poster in that thread who took you to task...but I may have been incorrect. Breakers protect the wire, and are chosen based upon the size of the wire. Period.

 

[Bob Weber]

So, the 150% "rule" is a personal opinion? I've been around long enough to work with fuses and actually understand the difference between line and load. So your "theory" is based on so called "nuisance" trips that have zero regulatory substance? Am I reading your responses wrong, or do you believe that the current FAA guidance is wrong? But from what I was taught, practiced, and found guidance in, it's electrical load, then wire size, THEN circuit protection. However, if you have any legit reference to prove otherwise, then I'm always open to learn something new.

The 150% rule was widely discussed , and derived, with very long time discussions with field service engineers from multiple manufacturers..

What does this statement say to you:

"A circuit breaker must always open before any component downstream can overheat and generate smoke or fire."

Other than a than a compromise of the insulation of the wire supplying the load, and shorting to ground, It draws no current. Current flows thru the wire, which actually offers a resistance(albeit infinitesimal), theoretically lowering the current draw..

Look at any modern installation manual and see the breaker and wire requirements. I would wager the specifications of most installation manuals have been scrutinized by the FAA.

The radio will smoke faster than the wire feeding it, the breaker is designed to prevent the radio from going up in smoke. The radio, being rated lower than the wire, is how the size of the breaker is determined.

The size of wire is determined by the breaker that prevents the radio from going up in smoke, and is designed to handle the current requirements of the breaker.

43.13 is all over the current rating of wire and should be closely adhered to by anyone allowed to get close to an aircraft.

 

[MuseChaser]

.....The radio will smoke faster than the wire feeding it, the breaker is designed to prevent the radio from going up in smoke...

No, the breaker size is chosen to prevent the wire carrying current to the radio from melting and causing a fire in the event that ANYTHING causes more current to flow than expected in that circuit..shorts, excess resistance, and/or a radio that suddenly starts to draw more current than it should. The radio itself, like most electronic components, will probably have its own internal protections. The breaker protects the wire. I know that's hard to accept because wire is cheap compared to our black boxes, but, really, by protecting the wire, the breakers protect the aircraft and our lives.

The radio, being rated lower than the wire, is how the size of the breaker is determined.
...

Breakers are rated by the current they are capable of handling without tripping. Desired wire gauge is determined by the amount of current it can safely carry and voltage drop over a given distance, which I guess could be considered a "rating" of sorts. Radios aren't "rated" to carry current at all..they are the load, and as such are specified as expected to require a certain amount of current when functioning properly. That spec allows you to determine the wire size necessary to feed it that current, and then the breaker is chosen to make sure that no current past that expected amount is allowed to flow through the wiring.

The size of wire is determined by the breaker that prevents the radio from going up in smoke, and is designed to handle the current requirements of the breaker.

...

Just.... no. Breakers don't have current "requirements;"; they are perfectly happy without any current at all. They become unhappy with too MUCH current, so they are rated by their maximum current capability. The radio is the only part of the circuit with a requirement for a certain amount of current. The wire size is chosen to be capable of delivering that amount of current safely, then the breaker is chosen to make sure the wire is never required to carry MORE than that amount.

I guess you could look at it any way you'd like, as long as your wire is capable of delivering the load's required current plus a safety margin, and your breaker can carry the load's required current but trips well before your wire's current capabilities, but looking at it differently doesn't change the way things work. What will the load draw? What wire size do I need to carry that load and voltage over a given distance safely? What breaker size will protect the wire? That's how it works.

Installation manuals may say ".....requires a 5amp breaker," and perhaps that's where the disconnect lies. What is meant is "requires a 5 amp protected power supply."

 

[MuseChaser]

As far as 41.13-1B goes, "a circuit breaker must be rated so that it will open before the current rating of the wire attached to it is exceeded,....." ..well, you can't do that until after you've chosen the wire size. It does also go on to say, "..or before the cumulative rating of all loads connected to it are exceeded, whichever is lowest." Leaving aside the obvious bad grammar ("rating....ARE exceeded?"), it is now requiring you to know two things PRIOR to selecting the correct breaker size... circuit load requirements AND wire size. You can't tell which is lowest until you know them both. Also, the circuit load requirements better dang well be the lower of the two! If it's not, and the wire "rating" is, the breaker will still be protecting the wire, but will trip when the loads draw what they are expected to draw, rendering the circuit still safe, but the loads (radios, whatever) useless because they can't get the current they need to function.

It does continue on to say, "Wires must be sized to carry continuous current in excess of the circuit protection device maximum rating...." but that's after the other statements and redundant...that has been met by satisfying the first statement of the paragraph describing how to choose the breaker size.

 

[Bob Weber]

As far as 41.13-1B goes, "a circuit breaker must be rated so that it will open before the current rating of the wire attached to it is exceeded,....." ..well, you can't do that until after you've chosen the wire size. It does also go on to say, "..or before the cumulative rating of all loads connected to it are exceeded, whichever is lowest." Leaving aside the obvious bad grammar ("rating....ARE exceeded?"), it is now requiring you to know two things PRIOR to selecting the correct breaker size... circuit load requirements AND wire size. You can't tell which is lowest until you know them both. Also, the circuit load requirements better dang well be the lower of the two! If it's not, and the wire "rating" is, the breaker will still be protecting the wire, but will trip when the loads draw what they are expected to draw, rendering the circuit still safe, but the loads (radios, whatever) useless because they can't get the current they need to function.

It does continue on to say, "Wires must be sized to carry continuous current in excess of the circuit protection device maximum rating...." but that's after the other statements and redundant...that has been met by satisfying the first statement of the paragraph describing how to choose the breaker size.

at this point I will close this with my old adage, you are putting the cart before the chicken.

You all know I can't leave without a story though, This was my van in 1977, just after I graduated high school, we were developing "Big Bertha" to be used in discotheques down in Texas, I have always hated disco...

 

[Bell206]

The 150% rule was widely discussed , and derived, with very long time discussions with field service engineers from multiple manufacturers..

So it is an opinion. While you're entitled to your opinions/interpretations, trying to pass them off as "fact" in a non-technical forum can lead some individuals to act on your "facts." I think it is paramount we, as service providers, offer references/standards first and allow those individuals to form their own opinions. This is no different than our previous discussion were you stated: "it is a sign of a level of workmanship and customer service that should be the norm..." However, when pushed you agreed there was no issue with the workmanship or customer service. So perhaps you may want to preface your answers with "in my opinion/experience" in the future?

What does this statement say to you:

Nothing, when taken out of context of the paragraph. However, when a statement is left in its original context, what does this statement mean to you:
"Circuit breakers are designed as circuit protection for the wire (see paragraph 11-48 and 11-49), not for protection of black boxes or components."

I would wager the specifications of most installation manuals have been scrutinized by the FAA.

Well, if I was you I would not take that wager as you would lose. Unless those specific instructions are part of an FAA approval process then the FAA will not review them. For example, with aircraft service/maintenance manuals the only portion the FAA reviews is if there is an Airworthiness Limitations section and nothing else. Hence the reason for labeling data "acceptable" or "approved."

the breaker is designed to prevent the radio from going up in smoke.

See above. But I'm still waiting on a different reference if you have one.

43.13 is all over the current rating of wire and should be closely adhered to by anyone allowed to get close to an aircraft.

Good advice. Perhaps you should review it sometime.

Curious, can you personally sign-off the work you perform, or do you need to use some other process to approve the aircraft for return to service?

 

[MuseChaser]

at this point I will close this with my old adage, you are putting the cart before the chicken.

Sooo... if that's the case... I should be saying, "I love this 10 amp breaker and would love to have it in my plane. This breaker requires 14 gauge wire for a 16 foot round trip run without excess voltage drop, so I'll feed it 14 gauge wire. Now.... umm... lessee.... what component should I put at the end of the run?"

As 41.13 said, the chain of thought is ...

1. Determine the load.
2. Size the wire to safely carry the load.
3. Size the breaker to protect the wire and other components of the circuit.

....I have always hated disco...

Ahhh... common ground at last! As a classical/jazz musician.. me, too. Unfortunately, compared to a lot of the computer-generated, technotrance, or rap stuff now, disco sounds like Respighi in comparison.

I do recognize that you have a lot more experience than I do.. a LOT more.. and that we are discussing semantics at least as much as practice. Cheers.

 

[weirdjim]

I don't think you want to fight me on the experience, education, or engineering side, so let's take the practical side ...

In the light single engine world, which is where 95% of the folks on this group sit, you don't have a breaker for each FRED on the airplane, you have multiple devices for each breaker. If you have, for example, a com that draws 5 amps in transmit, an ADSB that draws an amp, an auxiliary transceiver that draws 7 amps in transmit, you've got 13 amps possible at any one time on this bus. Throwing in safety factors and such, I'd probably use #14 or as a last resort #16 if I absolutely had to have the room or the weight. Especially if it wasn't in the middle of a bundle. Let's take #16 as a worst case.

Fusing ("melting") current for a #16 is about 117 amps so that isn't going to be a factor. With a 13 amp max load, I'd probably use a 20 amp breaker. 15 isn't margin enough for a sharp transient. So that com radio suffers a collector-emitter short in the transmitter output stage and starts drawing 10 amps. At 12 volts that's 120 watts and I'd say that radio is going to smoke a bit, or at least smell kind of funny. But the breaker won't pop as it is well within it's ratings. So is the wire.

It would be nice if we had a breaker for each device, but in the CessBeeMooVanPip world that just isn't going to happen. We don't have breaker subpanels like the heavy iron and there is only so much room on the instrument panel. So we do as we can and hope to the holy St. Potluck that the pilot/owner has enough sense to kill the master switch until (s)he can sort out the problem. That, and most decent designs have "last chance" fuses built into the radio. I've seen some Chinglish stuff in the ham radio world with a small hairpin loop of #32 covered with RTV in the main power line coming into the radio. #32 melts at 7 amps, RTV keeps the fire inside, and the radio goes dead.

That's the practical world of the light singles.

Jim

 

[Bob Weber]

With a 13 amp max load, I'd probably use a 20 amp breaker.

Approximately 150% of the load, I rest my case.

 

[weirdjim]

With a 13 amp max load, I'd probably use a 20 amp breaker.

Approximately 150% of the load, I rest my case.

No, I did it because it is WAY over-rated for the size of wire I chose.

Jim

 

[MuseChaser]

..... At 12 volts that's 120 watts and I'd say that radio is going to smoke a bit, or at least smell kind of funny. But the breaker won't pop as it is well within it's ratings. So is the wire....

Jim

With a 13 amp max load, I'd probably use a 20 amp breaker.

Approximately 150% of the load, I rest my case.

At least from my perspective, the discussion has been whether or not the breaker is protecting the wire or the load equipment, and I still maintain that the breaker is intended to protect the wire. In Jim's scenario, with more than one specific load on a circuit, the radio's internal protection would trip before the breaker, erego the breaker is protecting the wire. Also note that Jim's scenario followed exactly the order of thought that should be followed as I understand it... calculation of total load, followed by deciding upon wire gauge, and finally using the lower of the two to determine breaker size.

Me participating in this discussion with the two of you is kind of like me (155 pounds) stepping into the ring w/ Mike Tyson and Cassius Clay at the peak of their respective careers... just trying to get this clear in my own head, more than anything.

No, I did it because it is WAY over-rated for the size of wire I chose.

Jim

Just to make sure I understand THAT quote correctly, does " WAY over-rated," in that usage, mean that the breaker can handle far less current than the wire and will therefore trip far before the wire's capability is exceeded? Now I'm confused.. according to the charts, 16g wire can carry a max of 3.7amps for power transmission or 22amps for chassis wiring. Where did the 117amps fusing/melting current spec come from? Am I maybe reading a chart for the wrong type of wire? Not questioning the correctness of what Jim wrote.. just want to understand it better.

 

[Bob Weber]

150% above max load for the breaker, and 150% above the rating of the breaker for the wire. This is where I started with this.

 

[weirdjim]

And I said that a 20 amp breaker will sure as hell protect a #16 wire. You may be an autopilot expert but I don't think I'd want you in my company as an avionics installer.

Jim

 

[Bob Weber]

And I said that a 20 amp breaker will sure as hell protect a #16 wire. You may be an autopilot expert but I don't think I'd want you in my company as an avionics installer.

Jim

Cardboard box and crayon explanation here. (I loved ConAir)

A bit bigger breaker than you really need for the load, supplying said load with a bit bigger wire than you really need, in order to get the job done safely.

You determine the load you are dealing with, you then choose the breaker to properly handle that load.

Then you choose the wire to supply said load safely..

On the other side of that breaker you choose, is a buss that welds..

I'm trying to convey a simple concept that puts this into perspective for as many people as I can, these determinations, though said differently, say the same thing.

I have been avoiding a very famous old engineering adage..

Keep it simple stupid!!

KISS if you might remember.

Again with a story,

I had a mechanical engineer explaining to me how to remove the seat of his 182 while I was removing it, he ceased his explanation when he saw me set it on the ground in a matter of a couple minutes.

Then he told my that I did it wrong.

I was able to perform the service bulletin on his KAP 140 in less than half the time that it paid under warranty.

I was compelled to tell him, watch and learn. I did remark that he must be an engineer.

Considering the fact I have never been to Cali, on purpose, I'm pretty sure you would never see me hoping to work for you.

Not to mention the fact I only do custom work a bit above what you would pay.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Cardboard box and crayon explanation here. (I loved ConAir)

A bit bigger breaker than you really need for the load, supplying said load with a bit bigger wire than you really need, in order to get the job done safely.

You determine the load you are dealing with, you then choose the breaker to properly handle that load.

Then you choose the wire to supply said load safely..

On the other side of that breaker you choose, is a buss that welds..

I'm trying to convey a simple concept that puts this into perspective for as many people as I can, these determinations, though said differently, say the same thing.

I have been avoiding a very famous old engineering adage..

Keep it simple stupid!!

KISS if you might remember.

Again with a story,

I had a mechanical engineer explaining to me how to remove the seat of his 182 while I was removing it, he ceased his explanation when he saw me set it on the ground in a matter of a couple minutes.

Then he told my that I did it wrong.

I was able to perform the service bulletin on his KAP 140 in less than half the time that it paid under warranty.

I was compelled to tell him, watch and learn. I did remark that he must be an engineer.

Considering the fact I have never been to Cali, on purpose, I'm pretty sure you would never see me hoping to work for you.

Not to mention the fact I only do custom work a bit above what you would pay.

Bob,

Do you hold an A&P or any repairman certificates?

 

[Bob Weber]

Bob,

Do you hold an A&P or any repairman certificates?

I held a repairman's certificate for decades, I was authorized to inspect and sign off repairs to component level(not radar, I hate radar) and installations, the way the system works it stayed with the shop.

Today I rely on my experiences and attempt to guide those trying to repair the stuff I ran into and dealt all those years on the front lines.

I work with end users and shops all over the world via phone and internet. I began conceiving this idea while at mayday when I spent as much time on the phone as I did on the bench.

My website explains this.

Doc I gotta ask, have you ever been to Glenwood Springs?

 

[Doc Holliday]

I held a repairman's certificate for decades, I was authorized to inspect and sign off repairs to component level(not radar, I hate radar) and installations, the way the system works it stayed with the shop.

Today I rely on my experiences and attempt to guide those trying to repair the stuff I ran into and dealt all those years on the front lines.

I work with end users and shops all over the world via phone and internet. I began conceiving this idea while at mayday when I spent as much time on the phone as I did on the bench.

My website explains this.

Doc I gotta ask, have you ever been to Glenwood Springs?

Yes I have.

And thanks for the explanation.

 

[Bob Weber]

Yes I have.

And thanks for the explanation.

I hope it helps in understanding what I am trying to do, so many are very appreciative of having someone that actually knows the systems, the aircraft, and the faults that are common to both. I count on one hand the number of people that needed more than two hours of my services to resolve their issue.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I hope it helps in understanding what I am trying to do, so many are very appreciative of having someone that actually knows the systems, the aircraft, and the faults that are common to both. I count on one hand the number of people that needed more than two hours of my services to resolve their issue.

Stick to what you know. So far you've demonstrated a lack of knowledge when it comes to aircraft wiring and load protection.

 

[Bob Weber]

Stick to what you know. So far you've demonstrated a lack of knowledge when it comes to aircraft wiring and load protection.

Explain to me where I have misled someone here, or directed any thinking 43.13 as being wrong.

I blew the FAA guy away when I rebussed the MFD to the #2 avionics buss in a couple of hours in the 441 I presented in Witchita, with my expertise in bussing and load protection.

It was the only squawk they had with a project that encompassed every thing from the new speaker in the cockpit to the new servos.

2000 wires, 4000 connections, one, easily dispatched with issue.

I was proud!

We were wheels up not too long after we ate lunch the first day they looked at it. With the sign off.

May I ask your expertise?

 

[jordane93]

You are the customer and you should be able to pick your CFI based on your needs, personality, schedule, etc. I’d say shop around for other schools. This school seems to not have any flexibility.

 

[MuseChaser]

You are the customer and you should be able to pick your CFI based on your needs, personality, schedule, etc. I’d say shop around for other schools. This school seems to not have any flexibility.

Wrong thread, or a very zen fable-type response to this one? Could work either way....

 

[jordane93]

Wrong thread, or a very zen fable-type response to this one? Could work either way....

O man! Oops.

 

[IK04]

I was going to comment regarding the original subject of when to reset, but nope. This one went to hell before I could get to it...

 

[Doc Holliday]

Explain to me where I have misled someone here, or directed any thinking 43.13 as being wrong.

I blew the FAA guy away when I rebussed the MFD to the #2 avionics buss in a couple of hours in the 441 I presented in Witchita, with my expertise in bussing and load protection.

It was the only squawk they had with a project that encompassed every thing from the new speaker in the cockpit to the new servos.

2000 wires, 4000 connections, one, easily dispatched with issue.

I was proud!

We were wheels up not too long after we ate lunch the first day they looked at it. With the sign off.

May I ask your expertise?

Military trained avionics technician (I and O level) and A&P/IA.

May I ask what your credentials are? Any FAA certificates? Formal training in electronics?

 

[Bell206]

where I have misled someone here

You:

I was taught a breaker should be rated at 150% of the max load.

And what is the industry standard or reference on the "150% of max. load?"

While it appears you have experience on the design/inner workings of avionics black boxes, it also appears you have limited knowledge on how those black boxes are installed, approved, and signed off. But considering you've only had a repairmans certificate I could understand that. The difference is when I install an article or product on an aircraft and approve that aircraft for return to service, I'm bound by Part 43 to perform that work per acceptable/approved standards or references like AC43.13-1B. So your 150% rule is unusable to me as an A&P without said reference. So in my book you are misleading those who might be trying to learn something about how aviation mx works.

FWIW: my original post on POA was at the behest of one of my old customers who read some "faulty" information here and thought he had screwed-up royally on his aircraft. Turned out he didn't. I posted the appropriate acceptable references to show the correct answer, but unfortunately the "expert" in this case kept on with their unsubstantiated opinion.....

directed any thinking 43.13 as being wrong.

You:

the breaker is designed to prevent the radio from going up in smoke.

And here's AC43.13-1B, Paragraph 11-51:

 

[weirdjim]

according to the charts, 16g wire can carry a max of 3.7amps for power transmission or 22amps for chassis wiring. Where did the 117amps fusing/melting current spec come from? Am I maybe reading a chart for the wrong type of wire? Not questioning the correctness of what Jim wrote.. just want to understand it better.

Two tables I wrote just because I couldn't correlate some of the ones in the textbooks. Look at the three excel files that start with "wire... .xls

Jim

 

[weirdjim]

Look, folks, those of us who know what we are doing are just having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Let this goose screw things up as he will and the rest of us will take care of business.

Jim

 

[Bob Weber]

The question why, has always haunted me.

Once you know why, you know where they're headed with the how.

I wore out a guy by the name of Ron Tetz from age of 15 to17 in high school with the question why.

He continually told me to accept the theory.

Another guy by the name of Charles Fetters had the same battle, this time I was married with child, working multiple jobs putting myself thru college.

It all actually started with my parents when I was 6 or so.

I used to destroy most every toy that was given to me, it was then they discovered that I was trying to figure out how things worked, and why.

Once I started getting kits to build, life got better, until I built a burglar alarm and caused a few tense moments at the age of 10 or 11.

I found by educating why, it was easier to help solve issues.

If you can present a concept in a way that can light up the "why" light bulb, it tends to bring people to another level of awareness.

I find this as my calling.

So many people have given me that smirk, or that vocal reaction when that light lights.

The finest technician I have met is a Shellback radar guy(I hate radar), he was most certainly, another why guy.

This is one of the simplest why's I find to answer, yet a few want to cloud it with all the glorious and complicated renditions of how.

Please don't underestimate a why guy.




I have the utmost Respect and support for our military, I felt unworthy being awarded a flag that was flown in Iraq.

Doc thank You for your service!

 

[Doc Holliday]

The question why, has always haunted me.

Once you know why, you know where they're headed with the how.

I wore out a guy by the name of Ron Tetz from age of 15 to17 in high school with the question why.

He continually told me to accept the theory.

Another guy by the name of Charles Fetters had the same battle, this time I was married with child, working multiple jobs putting myself thru college.

It all actually started with my parents when I was 6 or so.

I used to destroy most every toy that was given to me, it was then they discovered that I was trying to figure out how things worked, and why.

Once I started getting kits to build, life got better, until I built a burglar alarm and caused a few tense moments at the age of 10 or 11.

I found by educating why, it was easier to help solve issues.

If you can present a concept in a way that can light up the "why" light bulb, it tends to bring people to another level of awareness.

I find this as my calling.

So many people have given me that smirk, or that vocal reaction when that light lights.

The finest technician I have met is a Shellback radar guy(I hate radar), he was most certainly, another why guy.

This is one of the simplest why's I find to answer, yet a few want to cloud it with all the glorious and complicated renditions of how.

Please don't underestimate a why guy.




I have the utmost Respect and support for our military, I felt unworthy being awarded a flag that was flown in Iraq.

Doc thank You for your service!

So, just a short answer will suffice. What is your formal training in electronics and do you hold (outside of a repairman certificate) any certifications?

Thanks

 

[Bob Weber]

Vocational Technical training 2 years in high school, and around two years of hand picked courses in digital, computer, and basic electronics at Mesa State College. I hold multiple factory training certificates with Bendix King, Honeywell, Rockwell Collins, Century Flight Systems, and a long OJT apprenticeship experience I would even challenge you to match in this industry we are working in.

I have worked with A/P's, I/A's, ASE certified mechanics, and every other certification out there, I found the certification does not make the man. Results are what I look for.

I have one simple question to ask you, what part of my concept explanation goes against your 43.13 mumbo jumbo I'm so glad to be able to put in my library archives?

Ignore the wire/breaker cart and chicken argument, where have I guided anyone astray from 43.13???

 

[MuseChaser]

..Ignore the wire/breaker cart and chicken argument, where have I guided anyone astray from 43.13???

Bob, I recognize that there is more than one path to expertise, that a lack of certain degrees or diplomas do not necessarily indicate a lack of competency, and that self-learning is a valuable tool. HOWEVER...

Isn't your statement above something like, "2 + 2 = 5. Ignoring addition, where did I go wrong?" The conversation is ABOUT sizing the breaker to protect the wire. @Bell206 's post above quoting AC43.13-1B, Paragraph 11-51 is pretty dang unequivocal... and you seem to disagree with it, so by definition you are guiding others astray.