Researching Auto-pilot options for Cherokee 180?

Never seen a 68 with that cowl and no third window...? 68 is the D model with a one piece cowl and third window and throttle quadrant.
 
Like all planes...they have a story behind them. Bought new in 1968 by a flight school. Student ran it off the runway in 1969. Parked for 18 years...which is why the airframe time is low. New owner flew it to a repair station, added the CSP, new cowling for the CSP, vertical leading edge was replaced, multiple mods added, but haven't figured out what happened to the third window?
 
Story to everything that's for sure. Sure is a pretty plane regardless!! Once you get that AP you will be in love. I sure do love my Trutrak in my cherokee!
 
bnt83 said:
This is not accurate. I have personally flown a TruTrak in a 177B and the GPS didn't even have a database in it and it could not even generate a magenta line.

  • It will fly any GPS track you want which can be selected two different ways.
    • One way is by using the knob on the autopilot to select a desired GPS track (so basically identical to using a heading bug)
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That is NOT "basically identical." ATC assigns headings, and assumes that you will be affected by the winds the same way as all the other planes in their airspace. When you use a bug that gives you GPS track, you're no longer affected by the winds and will not be flying where ATC expects, unless there is no crosswind component. Sometimes it won't be significant, but sometimes it will. I would not get an autopilot that wouldn't do an actual heading if I were planning to use it IFR.

bnt83 said:
I would not buy a legacy autopilot equipped airplane right now, unless the autopilot is depreciated to near zero $ in the price. Just one servo repair will make you cry and want a GFC500/Trutrak. Both of those, you can buy a brand new servo for under $2k, not the case for the competition. A brand new gyro for the GFC500 is under $2k.
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True story. Honeywell wants $9600 for an overhaul exchange servo on our Bendix/King KFC150. Next time it needs a repair, it's gone.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That is NOT "basically identical." ATC assigns headings, and assumes that you will be affected by the winds the same way as all the other planes in their airspace. When you use a bug that gives you GPS track, you're no longer affected by the winds and will not be flying where ATC expects, unless there is no crosswind component. Sometimes it won't be significant, but sometimes it will. I would not get an autopilot that wouldn't do an actual heading if I were planning to use it IFR.
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How I do it, once given a vector, I hold the CWS button and turn to the heading given by ATC then release. AP picks up where it left off on the new track that is flying the new heading. Still have to watch it as it can change but then you can use the knob to adjust and keep it on heading. Or just turn the knob to the heading and adjust it as needed to maintain that heading. Its not a pain honestly but then it sure aint turning a heading bug and the plane flies it but.....haha However with the Aspen E5 that is capable of heading bug. Once the G5 is certified for the TT it should be able to as well. Its all in the works.

Even for RNAV approaches once loaded all I do is manage preselcted altitudes. There is a way for everything..of course I could get a waas navigator but im fine with what I have. And for $5500 Im really happy with my TT and its IFR and VFR capabilities.
 
Cherokee Lover said:
I was planning on somewhere in the neighborhood $5k to $8k...but not hard over on that. Would I be able to get a decent system for that range?
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Yes, but the TruuTrak is probably your only option in that budget. And it is a EXCELLENT AP in that range...

I have a (recently installed ) one in our Warrior...

Cappy
 
NordicDave said:
A caution with either TruTrak or Trio; neither can fly a heading, just a GPS magenta line. If you're flying IFR, flying a heading is important in following radar vectors.

Even VFR, I had a flight last month VFR w/flight following where I was vectored several times in 45 minutes. It was great to just twist the heading indicator bug and leave the GPS alone so my flight plan remained undisturbed.
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Hi ND!

I will concede that if the crosswind is strong, and 90 degrees to your track, and the deviation is very long (15 minutes or more) you might end up "off" a bit from where they expect you to be.

However, the headings they usually give you are approximate (to the nearest 10 degrees usually) , they are watching a dynamic picture, and they will adjust the "heading" in 10 degree increments, several times (as in your example) and work you around the situation.

So far, the GPS "track" has been more than satisfactory for ATC, and they don't calculate "drift" for all aircraft on the screen before issuing a heading. If the separation closes up, they just assign new headings.. It works out.

With the TT, I tap the mode button, twist the knob to the new "heading/track" and motor onward.. never had a "small adjustment" from them, usually it's a new heading to intercept the old course, or another large change to go around something.

IMHO, this is not a serious issue … :)

Cap
 
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WannFly said:
Makes sense if you don’t have anything and want to get a glass panel with AP and engine monitor. I haven’t seen the actual install price on that though and their marketing statement of install it in 40 hrs or less is something I just don’t believe
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>>>and their marketing statement of install it in 40 hrs or less is something I just don’t believe

With more information coming out, recent guestimates seem to validate your suspicion.. and Dynon have stated in a communication that their first estimates were "very optimistic" .

Some as high as 200 hours including custom panel metal work etc. and the Autopilot certification will be apparently long behind the initial installation STC.. :(

Cap
 
Cherokee Lover said:
Agreed!!! I guess it all comes down to what you want? My friend took me up this weekend in his twin Baron. Would I love to have a 185kt twin? Absolutely!

Do I want the $$$ of having the extra 65 kts? No! Will I eat about $8-10k of the $15k if I sold after the AP install? Probably.

Will I get 10+ years outta this girl before my medical is declined...geez i hope so...:(
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Hehe... Carry on!

We will never recoup the investment we have in this Warrior.... and don't care. Its a beaut, love flying it, fits the mission exactly, and will probably be our last airplane. Would we like an Arrow or "Toga? Absolutely! But when most of your flying is within a few hundred miles, and trying to build enjoyable time, (getting there faster is counter productive to this ) ... it fits without breaking the bank..

Enjoy!

Cap
 
TruTrak for $7,250 out the door at my shop. You won’t get into a GFC500 for under $15,000, and you’ll likely be more like $20,000.
 
cappy48 said:
Hi ND!

I will concede that if the crosswind is strong, and 90 degrees to your track, and the deviation is very long (15 minutes or more) you might end up "off" a bit from where they expect you to be.

However, the headings they usually give you are approximate (to the nearest 10 degrees usually) , they are watching a dynamic picture, and they will adjust the "heading" in 10 degree increments, several times (as in your example) and work you around the situation.

So far, the GPS "track" has been more than satisfactory for ATC, and they don't calculate "drift" for all aircraft on the screen before issuing a heading. If the separation closes up, they just assign new headings.. It works out.

With the TT, I tap the mode button, twist the knob to the new "heading/track" and motor onward.. never had a "small adjustment" from them, usually it's a new heading to intercept the old course, or another large change to go around something.

IMHO, this is not a serious issue … :)

Cap
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i agree completely! ATC wants a track, but they assign a heading. If you’re off by a few degrees it’s not a big deal. If more, they’ll give you 10 degrees more into the wind. You’ll be much more accurate on an auto pilot holding track than hand flying while tuning frequencies, looking through approach plates and trying to maintain heading and altitude on a DG that is precessing and a compass that is leading or lagging.
 
Jesse Saint said:
TruTrak for $7,250 out the door at my shop. You won’t get into a GFC500 for under $15,000, and you’ll likely be more like $20,000.
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15k installed at the avionics shop here. More of you don’t have the G5 and other gizmos like the GAD controller, magnetometer etc. and this is why I might go to the dark side ... experimental.

Jesse, I hear you do a lot on those as well, or that a diff shop? And I mixed it up
 
That’s me.

Don’t mistake TruTrak with experimental. Their auto pilot is no more experimental than the GFC500. Both companies have experimental auto pilots that greatly resemble the certified units. Truthfully, the GFC500 more closely resembles their experimental version than the TriTrak does. The G5 also started experimental, then got STC’ed.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Is it the same for S-Tec equipped planes ??
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Ya... Although the Local Garmin/S-Tec dealer is VERY capable of fixing ANYTHING, S-Tec will not allow him to, nor will provide tech info to do so.

The units have to go back to the factory for the smallest fault, and they never come back with an invoice for less than $2500 . They always need a new motor or something ..

YMMV!

Cap
 
cappy48 said:
Ya... Although the Local Garmin/S-Tec dealer is VERY capable of fixing ANYTHING, S-Tec will not allow him to, nor will provide tech info to do so.

The units have to go back to the factory for the smallest fault, and they never come back with an invoice for less than $2500 . They always need a new motor or something ..

YMMV!

Cap
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Heh, sounds like every propeller shop in the history of aviation. Fly-by-night roofing insurance claim chasers after a hail storm are more ethical by comparison....
 
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